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  1. #81
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    FWIW, in ESPN's story they note that Tyrese was #30 on their current draft rankings, i.e. a borderline first round pick. That means he had a tougher decision to make than many of us thought, as most recent mocks had him more as a mid second rounder.

    I don't think it can be understated how big this is for both the program and Coach Scheyer, even more so if the other dominoes that we're expecting to fall soon follow. Coach S said he wanted us to get older, and this is a huge first step to achieving that goal.
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    Dallas, TX
    The most surprising thing about this to me is the timing. Says something about his commitment to the program and Coach Scheyer that he didn’t feel the need to even test the waters. His comments didn’t seem to suggest it was based on some kind of NIL incentive. He’s just likes being at Duke and believes the staff will push him to get better. That’s the best reason to come back.

    Maybe it’s “smart” to test the waters and exhaust every source of information and make a decision at the last second, but just being all in right away on coming back is refreshing. Big relief to know we have a PG we can trust running the offense. It’ll also help with any potential transfer portal players we go after, knowing he’s going to be here.

  3. #83
    NIL $$ come through again😀. Speculation on Proctor’s income next year and if we need to pony uo a lot more to get Mitchell and Flip?

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    I dunno, Tommy. Having your ACC Champion point guard back is plenty of experience for me. He may run rings around those grandpas.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  5. #85
    Love it!!! 💙💙💙

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by simplyluvin View Post
    ... our only concern is who is our starting center. ... .
    Many excellent college teams don't start anyone at center. They often play GGGFF or GGFFF.

    A great PG >> a true center.

    This is especially nice since--assuming we return 1 or 2 of our 3 inside starters--it seems highly unlikely that we'll find a transfer center who is going to earn PT.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    Did you not notice how much he improved/matured this season over a matter of months?

    It's not about age, it's about experience. Over the last 20 games of the season, Proctor averaged 32 minutes, 11.0 points and 4.2 assists (including a sweep of UNC and 10.3 points / 6.0 assists while winning the ACC Tournament).

    Proctor's not just some guy, he's an elite recruit who showed why he was an elite recruit as this season progressed. A 19-year-old, sophomore Proctor is better than 99% of the 22-to-24-year-old guys you're fawning over.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    I think it's a very big deal. The marginal benefit of experience decreases with each additional year. So getting a potential draft pick freshman to return is a BIG return. Especially when said freshman didn't have the advantage of an offseason with the team prior to his freshman year.

    No, we won't be "old" next year. But in terms of continuity, we'll be returning a LOT more next year than we did this past year (and that's ignoring the possibility that another regular or two might be returning as well). And I think that is a big part of what I think Scheyer was talking about.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    He didn’t play like an 18 year old in the game vs. Tennessee. I believe he’ll have a big impact on the overall team dynamic next year. Can’t wait!

    Also - Tennessee game was so poorly officiated, I don’t think that’s the yardstick to pull out.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach.[/B] Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    That age is going to be difficult for any school once the extra covid year classes are gone, which I believe is 2025. I think the odds of getting an NBA guy to stay 4 years are effectively 0 so the plan for getting old is mixing 3-4 year overseas/no pro prospect guys with 1-2 year NBA guys. A 19 year old with NBA talent is probably just as valuable as a 22 year old without the size or skill to play at the highest level.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    greater New Orleans area
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    These days: transfer portal, everyone thinking they are ready for the NBA; I think it is a big deal any time you get a guy to commit to returning, it helps build stability and, perhaps, momentum forward.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kfanarmy View Post
    These days: transfer portal, everyone thinking they are ready for the NBA; I think it is a big deal any time you get a guy to commit to returning, it helps build stability and, perhaps, momentum forward.
    Good point. Momentum on the court and in the culture. If the expectation is that any top 30 guy leaves after 1 year, it becomes self fulfilling. If next year's freshmen see Proctor come back (and perhaps appreciate the mentorship), perhaps the "default" decision isn't to declare next spring regardless of your stock.

  13. #93
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    I don't know how huge it is. I'm as excited as anyone that Tyrese is coming back -- that is huge for our team's prospects for next year. But frankly it's a drop in the bucket in terms of getting older. So he'll be 19 next year instead of 18. There are an awful lot of guys in the Final Four, or who were in the Elite 8, who are 22, 23, even 24 years old. It's that kind of age that is going to be very difficult for Duke to reach. Yes, Grandison and Young helped in that respect, but still, the core of the team was a LOT younger, and they looked it against Tennessee. With the realities of the portal and NIL, a lot of teams are going to continue to be old and experienced and physically developed. And Duke is going to have a very hard time matching that. Having star frosh stay a second year will help a bit in this respect, sure, but in order to be older like Jon said he wants us to be, it's going to have to be a portal thing. It's going to be quite a balancing act for Jon -- if he can pull it off, then all hats off to him, cuz it ain't gonna be easy.
    Not to pile on, but I agree with the many respondents who think you're being a bit pessimistic here Tommy. Yes, next year's squad may not have the 22/23 year olds others will, but you can make the argument that the biggest jump in development, particularly for guys with NBA potential, occurs between freshman and sophomore years. There's a HUGE difference between 0 and 1 year of experience at the collegiate level, IMHO.

    I also think there's a domino effect here. Tyrese's return implies that the staff likely views either of Foster or McCain as multi-year players (since in all likelihood at least one of them will be coming off the bench), and perhaps both of them given that our 2024 targets don't include any pure point guards of which I'm aware. Stewart and Power are also likely multi-year guys who will come off the bench in year 1. Yes, next year's team may only be incrementally older, with sophomores replacing freshmen, but we also weren't going to get "old" in just one season. Tyrese's return is a proof of principle that Scheyer can target and develop guys with NBA talent/aspirations but who aren't surefire OADs and keep them around so that we benefit from that development in Year 2. The crucial next step will be showing that we can keep guys around for multiple years if they're developing as bench contributors (i.e., guarding more against the transfer portal as opposed to the draft). But this is still a step forward regardless of how big you think it is.
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  14. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by BrummieDevil View Post
    Did you not notice how much he improved/matured this season over a matter of months?

    It's not about age, it's about experience. Over the last 20 games of the season, Proctor averaged 32 minutes, 11.0 points and 4.2 assists (including a sweep of UNC and 10.3 points / 6.0 assists while winning the ACC Tournament).

    Proctor's not just some guy, he's an elite recruit who showed why he was an elite recruit as this season progressed. A 19-year-old, sophomore Proctor is better than 99% of the 22-to-24-year-old guys you're fawning over.
    Of course I "noticed" it. It was probably the #1 driving factor in why the team's performance improved so much later in the year. As I said, his return is going to be a big deal in terms of the team's performance next year, as I expect he will continue to improve. My point was that one guy returning as a 19 year old with a year of experience instead of as an 18 year old without that year doesn't move the needle much in terms of the team becoming older, which is one of Jon's stated goals moving forward in terms of roster construction. I wasn't "fawning over" anyone, so slow your roll. But if, as you say, it's about experience and not age, then those 22-24 year old guys who are playing meaningful minutes on a lot of successful teams have a lot more experience than a sophomore Tyrese Proctor. Maybe not as much talent. Maybe not as highly sought-after by the NBA. But yes, more experienced and that is meaningful.

  15. #95
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    Nov 2020
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    Western NC

    "The best thing about Freshmen is that they become Sophmores"

    Not so true any more with OADs, but it's nice when it happens.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I think it's a very big deal. The marginal benefit of experience decreases with each additional year. So getting a potential draft pick freshman to return is a BIG return. Especially when said freshman didn't have the advantage of an offseason with the team prior to his freshman year.

    No, we won't be "old" next year. But in terms of continuity, we'll be returning a LOT more next year than we did this past year (and that's ignoring the possibility that another regular or two might be returning as well). And I think that is a big part of what I think Scheyer was talking about.
    My post was in response to someone saying that Tyrese coming back was a huge first step in us becoming older. Not about continuity or anything else -- but age. And I said this is a marginal step in becoming older, but it's not a huge step in that direction.

    We'll be returning a LOT more next year? I hope you turn out to be right on that, and I suspect you will, but that seems premature to say. So far, to my knowledge, we have two guys from the rotation that are coming back -- Proctor and Young. Last year we had one guy - Roach. Sure, two is more than one, but is that a LOT more? I'm not counting Schutt or Blakes because a) they weren't in the rotation and b) all the transfer speculation regarding them, which I hope is wrong. So again, I think we're all hoping we return a lot more next year than we did this year, but that depends on announcements not yet made by Roach, Flip, and Mitchell, plus whatever happens with Blakes and Schutt.

  17. #97
    Pleasant surprise but based on his body and age, I think its the right choice.

    This kid has the potential to develop into a top tier PG. Not just in college but also the pros.

    Hopefully he makes that big jump next year. If he does, we are potentially legit title contenders. Our backcourt looks in very good shape right now.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Section 15 View Post
    Not so true any more with OADs, but it's nice when it happens.
    I have a feeling "the best thing about freshmen is becoming sophomores" is something that we'll be saying more often than the past half-decade.

    The incoming freshmen are talented. However, the Class of 2023 (and especially the Class of 2024 by all accounts I've read) is weaker than the ones prior to COVID. On top of that, this particular incoming class lacks the kind of top-10 players that were part of the Classes of 2020 (Banchero, Griffin) and 2021 (Whitehead, Lively, and Filipowski). Mackenzie Mgbako is the only one that is in that tier of recruit for next season.

    IMO 2023-24 is going to have a lot of sophomores and freshmen in big roles while 2024-25 is going to have a lot of juniors and seniors in big roles with a couple of freshmen sprinkled in for fun.

  19. #99
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    My post was in response to someone saying that Tyrese coming back was a huge first step in us becoming older. Not about continuity or anything else -- but age. And I said this is a marginal step in becoming older, but it's not a huge step in that direction.

    We'll be returning a LOT more next year? I hope you turn out to be right on that, and I suspect you will, but that seems premature to say. So far, to my knowledge, we have two guys from the rotation that are coming back -- Proctor and Young. Last year we had one guy - Roach. Sure, two is more than one, but is that a LOT more? I'm not counting Schutt or Blakes because a) they weren't in the rotation and b) all the transfer speculation regarding them, which I hope is wrong. So again, I think we're all hoping we return a lot more next year than we did this year, but that depends on announcements not yet made by Roach, Flip, and Mitchell, plus whatever happens with Blakes and Schutt.
    It is a huge FIRST step in that direction. The “FIRST” is a key part of the statement you omitted.

    As for returning “a LOT” more than last year, it is already true. Last year we returned one starter and one end of bench guy. This year we will be returning at least one starter, one key reserve, likely one fringe rotation player, and likely 1-2 end of bench guys. In terms of program continuity that is a big difference.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    In a year in which Duke beat UNC twice and won the ACC tournament, I don’t consider any business as being unfinished.

    The NCAA tournament — if that is to what Proctor is referring— is a total crapshoot and is just icing on the cake.
    First post since the loss. Tennessee was for the Final Four. As far as my vow to not read anything until the fall, remember the Michael Corleone quote in Godfather III?

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