Who Stays and Who Goes?

[sagegrouse]

I think there's a whiff of paternalism here--"Oh gosh, if Trevor had only been smart enough to see how much better his life would have been with one more year at Duke." .

It's more than a whiff of paternalism -- it's what we think their parents are thinking and saying.

Also, there is life and work after basketball -- and life after hoops probably starts before age 30 for most NBAers. College degrees can be not only helpful but also necessary. Like coaching in college, e.g., as well as many professional jobs.

[clinresga]

The idea that they don't really lose anything by leaving school is one that I have a really hard time with. I know how important it was for me to have those years in college and grow up. Coming back to take classes later isn't the same thing. I think having those college years is an important part of development for most young people. Those who join the military get a very different type of development as young adults, but a similar experience in the sense that you are living in a barracks with other young people as a trainee and a young enlisted person. I'm not saying any of that should outweigh making millions or achieving your dream, but I do hope there's someone advising players to consider that aspect when making their decisions. Being 19 and in the NBA with some sort of handler assigned to you to make sure you don't make bad financial decisions is not how someone grows up and rounds themself out into a mature adult. I don't remember where it is, but I remember an article written about Okafor when he was with the 76ers. They described him sitting in his apartment with his personal assistant there. It sounded like the assistant's job was to babysit him, and it seemed like Okafor was unprepared for adult life. For plenty, that rocky transition might be worth it, but I think it's unfair to say you're just missing out on a little bit of fun by leaving college.

Good lord, you want me to tell Jahlil that he was a fool to leave Duke early? Big Jah has earned $21,649,023 to date from the NBA. He's 28 years old. Who out there would not have spent a couple years feeling lonely with a personal assistant, to have that stake for the rest of his/her life??? Heck, I spent three years in Philly as an intern/resident, lonely, brutally fatigued, and abused at work, and made $25K/year. So who is the dumb one between us

[FastBreak]

It's more than a whiff of paternalism -- it's what we think their parents and thinking and saying.

Also, there is life and work after basketball -- and life after hoops probably starts before age 30 for most NBAers. College degrees can be not only helpful but also necessary. Like coaching in college, e.g.

Agreed - College as an institution was designed to help 18-22 year olds mature and go out to face the real world with success. And a big part of that is learning to be on your own and making independent decisions. The G-League was emphatically not designed for that purpose. The G-League is designed for grown men to fiercely compete with each other for a coveted NBA spot. Is that more conducive for self improvement of an 18-22 year old than a highly competitive D1 program? I struggle to see it.

Sure Trevor Keels made his decision and we ought to respect his decision. Nowhere in this discussion is a criticism of his personal decision. That said, we have no idea whether he still believes it was a good decision or not either.

[clinresga]

Agreed - College as an institution was designed to help 18-22 year olds mature and go out to face the real world with success. And a big part of that is learning to be on your own and making independent decisions. The G-League was emphatically not designed for that purpose. The G-League is designed for grown men to fiercely compete with each other for a coveted NBA spot. Is that more conducive for self improvement of an 18-22 year old than a highly competitive D1 program? I struggle to see it.

Sure Trevor Keels made his decision and we ought to respect his decision. Nowhere in this discussion is a criticism of his personal decision. That said, we have no idea whether he still believes it was a good decision or not either.

If your life goal has been to play in the NBA, then the G League may indeed be more conducive to self-improvement.

[FastBreak]

Good lord, you want me to tell Jahlil that he was a fool to leave Duke early? Big Jah has earned $21,649,023 to date from the NBA. He's 28 years old. Who out there would not have spent a couple years feeling lonely with a personal assistant, to have that stake for the rest of his/her life??? Heck, I spent three years in Philly as an intern/resident, lonely, brutally fatigued, and abused at work, and made $25K/year. So who is the dumb one between us

Ask any of these guys who make big money and end up mentally broken. They would gladly give back the money in exchange for their mental stability back. That kind of money can be more of a curse than you are willing to accept, especially for a young person that doesn't know how to handle the sudden riches and fame.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Ask any of these guys who make big money and end up mentally broken. They would gladly give back the money in exchange for their mental stability back. That kind of money can be more of a curse than you are willing to accept, especially for a young person that doesn't know how to handle the sudden riches and fame.

"Mentally broken" is something that you cannot possibly know about another person that you have never met. There is a lot of unfounded judgement in this post of yours.

[Matches]

Ask any of these guys who make big money and end up mentally broken. They would gladly give back the money in exchange for their mental stability back. That kind of money can be more of a curse than you are willing to accept, especially for a young person that doesn't know how to handle the sudden riches and fame.

Okafor is mentally broken?

I mean, if we’re at the “some people regret making generational wealth before they’re 25” stage of the conversation then… sure? There seems to be an implicit assumption there, though, that the regret could have been avoided had the player played another year or two of college ball, which seems like a pretty large leap.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Ask any of these guys who make big money and end up mentally broken. They would gladly give back the money in exchange for their mental stability back. That kind of money can be more of a curse than you are willing to accept, especially for a young person that doesn't know how to handle the sudden riches and fame.

Where did you read that Okafor is "mentally broken"?

[FastBreak]

If your life goal has been to play in the NBA, then the G League may indeed be more conducive to self-improvement.

Sure G-League might be more conducive, but the point is for an 18-21 year old, there are more negatives to the G-League than positives relative to a competitive D1 program. And the positives of the G-League relative to college are likely smaller than you think. How many hours a day do you think can be spent either playing or training? 4 hours? 5 hours? What does that 18-21 year old do with all that down time in the G-League?

Sure G-League competition is grown men, but those grown men are competing not to win the next title, but to impress an NBA team. You think those guys are helping each other develop? At Duke, for sure, but likely most quality D1 programs, the older guys on the team act as real mentors to the younger guys. That kind of learning is invaluable and probably rare in the G-League.

Any human being performs at his/her best when there is a degree of joy to what they are doing. Again, not saying there aren't exceptions, but the college experience has an element of joy that is hard to believe really exists in the G-League. Much easier to imagine is these young guys burning out fast in the G-League because they aren't ready for that kind of life just yet.

[FastBreak]

"Mentally broken" is something that you cannot possibly know about another person that you have never met. There is a lot of unfounded judgement in this post of yours.

My apologies - I was in no way suggesting the Okafor was mentally broken. I have no idea what his mental state is. The point I was trying to make is that earning a lot of money can be mentally damaging in a way we underestimate. The phrase "mentally broken" was too strong a term, and certainly am not implying that Okafor was broken.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Sure G-League might be more conducive, but the point is for an 18-21 year old, there are more negatives to the G-League than positives relative to a competitive D1 program. And the positives of the G-League relative to college are likely smaller than you think. How many hours a day do you think can be spent either playing or training? 4 hours? 5 hours? What does that 18-21 year old do with all that down time in the G-League?

Sure G-League competition is grown men, but those grown men are competing not to win the next title, but to impress an NBA team. You think those guys are helping each other develop? At Duke, for sure, but likely most quality D1 programs, the older guys on the team act as real mentors to the younger guys. That kind of learning is invaluable and probably rare in the G-League.

Any human being performs at his/her best when there is a degree of joy to what they are doing. Again, not saying there aren't exceptions, but the college experience has an element of joy that is hard to believe really exists in the G-League. Much easier to imagine is these young guys burning out fast in the G-League because they aren't ready for that kind of life just yet.

You are really on a roll with the hot takes today.

You know what can give someone joy? Choice. Every single player that left Duke chose to do it.

I would hazard a guess that you have never actually talked to someone that played in the G-League, so it might be best to not make sweeping judgements about it.

[DavidBenAkiva]

My apologies - I was in no way suggesting the Okafor was mentally broken. I have no idea what his mental state is. The point I was trying to make is that earning a lot of money can be mentally damaging in a way we underestimate. The phrase "mentally broken" was too strong a term, and certainly am not implying that Okafor was broken.

Yeah, well go and make a lot of money and tell me how you feel about it before you make a sweeping statement like that, too, while you're at it. I'm not sure what end of you these thoughts have come from. I have my guess, but I'll leave it there.

[uh_no]

I believe Grayson was in position to graduate in 3. He went to a private HS and was reputedly a good student, so he probably had some AP credit. But then...

so you're saying he was in a position to graduate early but then something tripped him up?


sorry. that was bad. Love you G.

[jgehtland]

I recommend to anybody who hasn't already to read "Game", Grant Hill's autobiography. Grant is the living embodiment of staying 4 years in college. He clearly does not regret doing so, and clearly has benefited from it in many ways. And his ties to Duke and the community are stronger than ever.

And he clearly states, multiple times, that college players don't get anything out of staying in school *when it comes to their basketball career*. And if that career is the most important thing to a young man, then the choice seems obvious. Now, every player has different things that matter to them, just like every student.

[FastBreak]

Yeah, well go and make a lot of money and tell me how you feel about it before you make a sweeping statement like that, too, while you're at it. I'm not sure what end of you these thoughts have come from. I have my guess, but I'll leave it there.

Not sure why this kind of reaction to what I'm saying. Everyone has their right to their choices. The only point I was making is that college is designed to help 18-21 year olds mature and the G-League is not. This was in response to a claim made by another poster that the G-League is for sure the better place to become a better basketball player. I am offering the case why that might not be. I specifically said, as well, that of course there are exceptions.

I also do not think it is such a controversial thing to say that there are people who would give up their money and fame for a normal life. Again, no where did I suggest that is true for everyone.

[clinresga]

Sure G-League might be more conducive, but the point is for an 18-21 year old, there are more negatives to the G-League than positives relative to a competitive D1 program. And the positives of the G-League relative to college are likely smaller than you think. How many hours a day do you think can be spent either playing or training? 4 hours? 5 hours? What does that 18-21 year old do with all that down time in the G-League?

Sure G-League competition is grown men, but those grown men are competing not to win the next title, but to impress an NBA team. You think those guys are helping each other develop? At Duke, for sure, but likely most quality D1 programs, the older guys on the team act as real mentors to the younger guys. That kind of learning is invaluable and probably rare in the G-League.

Any human being performs at his/her best when there is a degree of joy to what they are doing. Again, not saying there aren't exceptions, but the college experience has an element of joy that is hard to believe really exists in the G-League. Much easier to imagine is these young guys burning out fast in the G-League because they aren't ready for that kind of life just yet.

You seem to view life in the G League as a modern day equivalent of a Dickensian orphanage. This video is a bit out of date from 2021, and it's more coach-centric, but you get a glimpse of life for the players too:
A day in the NBA G League

Trust me, internship was worse.

[Southgate0809]

Good lord, you want me to tell Jahlil that he was a fool to leave Duke early? Big Jah has earned $21,649,023 to date from the NBA. He's 28 years old. Who out there would not have spent a couple years feeling lonely with a personal assistant, to have that stake for the rest of his/her life??? Heck, I spent three years in Philly as an intern/resident, lonely, brutally fatigued, and abused at work, and made $25K/year. So who is the dumb one between us

Did you read the other part of my post that you didn't bold? Everyone can decide for themselves whether that kind of money is worth missing out on whatever you miss out on in college. My point was that you do lose something by leaving college.

[clinresga]

Not sure why this kind of reaction to what I'm saying. Everyone has their right to their choices. The only point I was making is that college is designed to help 18-21 year olds mature and the G-League is not. This was in response to a claim made by another poster that the G-League is for sure the better place to become a better basketball player. I am offering the case why that might not be. I specifically said, as well, that of course there are exceptions.

I also do not think it is such a controversial thing to say that there are people who would give up their money and fame for a normal life. Again, no where did I suggest that is true for everyone.

OK, raise your hands if you'd give up $20M by age 28 to avoid the suffering that Jahlil apparently experienced.

[lotusland]

How many OADs has Duke had that are even out of their basketball playing years? Corey Maggette and Deng had successful NBA careers. It's like you are dog piling on Jahlil Okafor. Most of the other OADs at Duke are either still playing or trying to get back to the NBA through the G-League. Kyrie Irving and Austin Rivers were the first true OADs that Duke had and both are still on NBA rosters.

I guess I still wasn’t clear. Of course I’m not talking Okafor. No one in their right mind thought Okafor should stay at Duke another year at the time. I’m talking about marginal NBA players. The discussion context was Trevor Keels. I’m talking about Duvall, Stanley, Hurt and Steward. Mitchell would be a similar example from this years team.

[Phredd3]

The level of hyperbole in this thread has been turned up to 11. Read the posts and please try to respond to what was actually written and not some phantom argument you can twist into the words. C'mon, people. DBR is better than than this.