Tar Heels off-season thread

[dukebluesincebirth]

If you want to see the real meltdown, wait until Caleb Love announces he's returning for another year. Boy are they unhappy with Caleb.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Most years there are 1-2 teams that turn them down. Cincinnati declined a bid this year. (They are coached by Wes Miller which makes it funnier.)

Cincinnati is playing VT Wednesday night.

[DukieInBrasil]

Is that a dig at those countries? Turkish league is very competitive and 3 of the last 10 or so champions of Euroleague were Turkish teams.

I think it's more of a dig at the lack of NBA prospects for uNC's players. I'm fairly certain it's not a dig at the countries themselves, since Duke currently has a player who played for a Turkish national team recently (Borden) and many Duke alums have played/are playing in European leagues. Duke players are under no obligation to want to play in the NBA, and there's decent money to be made in European leagues, but there's much more money available in the NBA, even for seldom-used reserves.

[Matches]

Cincinnati is playing VT Wednesday night.

Huh. I stand corrected.

[sagegrouse]

100%. I don’t get the hate on this particular issue.

Agreed.

Such a disappointing season for #1 ranked UNC to finish about #40 in the country. They don't want to play in the NIT. Would you, after a clunker of a season?

[JetpackJesus]

Is that a dig at those countries? Turkish league is very competitive and 3 of the last 10 or so champions of Euroleague were Turkish teams.

Pretty sure it's a dig at uNC having no NBA talent among it's upper classmen.

[Kdogg]

Yea but if they had accepted a bid we’d be mocking them mercilessly for playing in the event. If they made a run, we’d laugh at them for hanging a banner. If they lost early, we’d laugh at that.

I’m generally pro-NIT, I think it’s a good team-building exercise. There are times when I think it’s understandable to just be done though. Us in 2021 was one such time. This is another.

Yeah but only for a short while. It's not like Duke fans dredge up UNC's 2010 NIT run to the finals with any regularity. That's the same year we won it all so it would be ripe for the plucking.

I completely agree that there comes a point to just be done. I have no problem with UNC opting out of the NIT even though Dean, Doherty and Roy took their teams there. Times are different. Back in 2010 Roy let the players vote. They voted to not play and he promptly threw it out and took them anyway. I would speculate that Hubert gave them the same option but adhered to the vote this time. I think this has more to do with the social media vitriol the players are getting from both fans and enemies. The level of inescapable negativity that young people have to deal with 24/7 is tough. I love to make fun of UNC. It's a near and dear pastime but I do understand when players say enough all ready.

I do have a problem with how UNC handled it. They didn't need to release a press statement. A simple "Thank you but we decline." Maybe add something about giving players time to heal physically and to focus on their academic commitments . It's hard to pull off arrogant and weak in a statement but UNC found a way.

[kidA]

Agreed.

Such a disappointing season for #1 ranked UNC to finish about #40 in the country. They don't want to play in the NIT. Would you, after a clunker of a season?

Me, yes I would. Even at “a certain age” I still play competitive sports and relish every opportunity to play. I can understand not *wanting* to play, but that’s hardly relevant. Just suck it up and play the games. That’s part of what it means to grow into a man (adult, not being sexy) during the college basketball season. They could try to salvage their season, get a preview of next year, have the coach reestablish his control over the team, any number of potentially positive outcomes. They could also lose in the first round and further exacerbate the misery. But thems the breaks. Got to play the games.
9F
ps- to me this is kind of like if Duke declined its NCAAT bid because we thought we got screwed with a five seed playing Oral Roberts in the first round. You just don’t not play. My $0.02

[Kdogg]

9F
ps- to me this is kind of like if Duke declined its NCAAT bid because we thought we got screwed with a five seed playing Oral Roberts in the first round. You just don’t not play. My $0.02

Not quite the same but GTech turned down the NIT after getting hosed out of a NCAA bid. Most people outside the committee room were on GTech's side.

[KandG]

I completely agree that there comes a point to just be done. I have no problem with UNC opting out of the NIT even though Dean, Doherty and Roy took their teams there. Times are different. Back in 2010 Roy let the players vote. They voted to not play and he promptly threw it out and took them anyway. I would speculate that Hubert gave them the same option but adhered to the vote this time. I think this has more to do with the social media vitriol the players are getting from both fans and enemies. The level of inescapable negativity that young people have to deal with 24/7 is tough. I love to make fun of UNC. It's a near and dear pastime but I do understand when players say enough all ready.

I do have a problem with how UNC handled it. They didn't need to release a press statement. A simple "Thank you but we decline." Maybe add something about giving players time to heal physically and to focus on their academic commitments . It's hard to pull off arrogant and weak in a statement but UNC found a way.

This is my position too, and you stated it very well. Seismic mediocrity of a basketball team that has gotten disproportionate media attention for all the wrong reasons, plus there may be health issues that gum things up further — any benefits from giving other players more playing time are outweighed by the tsunami of further negative attention. Also there was no transfer portal back when Williams took his 2010 team to the NIT, that may be a consideration as well.

IC, even by its subterranean standards, has been especially apocalyptic the last few days, with the highlight being posts from a person claiming to be a team manager defending the team, other posts attacking the so-called manager for being a NC State troll account, all ending with multiple posters calling each other ABC trolls. (the team manager posts were eventually deleted though you can still see several of them because they’re embedded in replies from angry unhinged posters)

Good times, though I’m now done with the schadenfreude and have taken a shower after spending more time than I should have over there. At this point I’m focused on Duke and the teams that are actually competing in the big tournament, though it’s interesting that one of the writers at IC has written an aggressive opinion piece criticizing the team for the decision to decline the NIT and the way it was announced.

[dukelifer]

UNC is out and that is all that matters. Not sure - other than bettors- who cares about the NIT. The Duke curse rears its head again. UNC will be back at some point, but that is for another time.

[boligrafous]

Me, yes I would. Even at “a certain age” I still play competitive sports and relish every opportunity to play. I can understand not *wanting* to play, but that’s hardly relevant. Just suck it up and play the games. That’s part of what it means to grow into a man (adult, not being sexy) during the college basketball season. They could try to salvage their season, get a preview of next year, have the coach reestablish his control over the team, any number of potentially positive outcomes. They could also lose in the first round and further exacerbate the misery. But thems the breaks. Got to play the games.
9F
ps- to me this is kind of like if Duke declined its NCAAT bid because we thought we got screwed with a five seed playing Oral Roberts in the first round. You just don’t not play. My $0.02

Yes, kidA! Always compete to the best of your ability. No team can say they're too good for the NIT unless they either got a better offer or won the thing. Teams that turn down the NIT, if they are not unable to play (e.g. in COVID quarantine), are saying they lack the desire to compete. Shame on them. I love that it's part of what it means to wear D U K E on your chest, to always compete to the best of your ability. The 1995 home game against UNC is a great example. By the logic of some posts on here, those players should have forfeited that game. Duke was having a terrible season. But they competed with everything they had. It wasn't enough. They lost to a more talented team. But they showed everyone what it means to compete for Duke. I'd like to think that showed the difference between programs that can recruit talented players and this program. that's our edge. And that it paid dividends ever since - e.g. Derek Lively first to the floor for a loose ball in the ACC Tournament Final. I would expect the same in a year when the NIT tournament invitation is offered. Always compete to the best of your ability.

[willowglen]

This is my position too, and you stated it very well. Seismic mediocrity of a basketball team that has gotten disproportionate media attention for all the wrong reasons, plus there may be health issues that gum things up further — any benefits from giving other players more playing time are outweighed by the tsunami of further negative attention. Also there was no transfer portal back when Williams took his 2010 team to the NIT, that may be a consideration as well.

IC, even by its subterranean standards, has been especially apocalyptic the last few days, with the highlight being posts from a person claiming to be a team manager defending the team, other posts attacking the so-called manager for being a NC State troll account, all ending with multiple posters calling each other ABC trolls. (the team manager posts were eventually deleted though you can still see several of them because they’re embedded in replies from angry unhinged posters)

Good times, though I’m now done with the schadenfreude and have taken a shower after spending more time than I should have over there. At this point I’m focused on Duke and the teams that are actually competing in the big tournament, though it’s interesting that one of the writers at IC has written an aggressive opinion piece criticizing the team for the decision to decline the NIT and the way it was announced.

My brother is a multiple All American in track and Phi Beta Kappa in math from UNC. He won’t even look at UNC athletics after the AFAM scandal. I do think there was some merit to the Carolina way when he graduated in the early 80’s - the athletic department did look after its athletes - meaning they insisted they do the right thing. It started unraveling a decade later - driven by a lot of bad decisions that one could observe in the AFAM scandal. I don’t think the fans at IC have come to grips with the scandal. One of the best state universities in the nation completely abandoned academic standards in a way not seen by universities at this level. My brother was an Econ PhD and was a professor at UVA for a while. Can you imagine the rigor required to get and keep that kind of job? Not at UNC apparently. Too bad, too because their academic programs in fields like Chemistry are excellent.

In any event, I get why UNC is not playing in the NIT. They almost lead the NCAA in fewest minutes played by the bench - and their only effective big man - Bacot - is hurt and frankly shouldn’t hurt his future by playing. I am not sure their coach is the right pick - the job is a pressure cooker and there are lots of failure points. We shall see - but NIT participation under the circumstances will not matter.

By the way, I think Scheyer will succeed. One can never say recruiting is easy, but I recall when I was recruited - there were way too many reasons to say yes to Duke. Scheyer is very smart too (from my sister high school in my district). This is helpful in terms of navigating the social and network competitiveness at Duke, something Bill Foster complained about while at Duke (and I empathized with Foster at the time over this, although his brand of defense wouldn’t have cut it as time moved on).

[killerleft]

No hundred ways about it. They took their ball and went home. I always hated that guy.

[CrazieDUMB]

I completely agree that there comes a point to just be done. I have no problem with UNC opting out of the NIT even though Dean, Doherty and Roy took their teams there. Times are different. Back in 2010 Roy let the players vote. They voted to not play and he promptly threw it out and took them anyway. I would speculate that Hubert gave them the same option but adhered to the vote this time. I think this has more to do with the social media vitriol the players are getting from both fans and enemies. The level of inescapable negativity that young people have to deal with 24/7 is tough. I love to make fun of UNC. It's a near and dear pastime but I do understand when players say enough all ready.

I hope that our guys didn't get too much vitriol from our own fans in 2021. I know Jalen Johnson sure has; personally I think the anger towards him is a bit much but in fairness it comes from him quitting mid-season, not just playing poorly.

[HoKogan]

You know, one could argue that K was not the first HOF coach that this group retired.

I think its best for Hubert Davis. They don't want to play and most of them are going to transfer a way. He isn't going to gain anything from going to the NIT anyway.

[elvis14]

Agree with this. We're all fans, but at the end of the day these are kids. Surely lots of hounding came from peers, but knowing that lots of hounding came from folks my age makes me sad.

-c

These are UNCheat players who are paid a huge amount of NIL money to play and get a free ride to attend college if they choose to do so (if they don't, we know it doesn't matter there). It's been more than a decade since UNCheat's true nature has come to light and these guys still chose to go there. So, no I don't mind it if they get hounded from people of all ages, sometimes you get what you signed up for.

I’m not sure UNC has any choice. I doubt their paid talent deals included NIT games.

That's a good point. With the best team they could buy they didn't make the NCAA's. Good chance the money ran out.

I hope that our guys didn't get too much vitriol from our own fans in 2021. I know Jalen Johnson sure has; personally I think the anger towards him is a bit much but in fairness it comes from him quitting mid-season, not just playing poorly.

Just to be clear, Jalen Johnson is not one of "our guys". He's a guy that chose not to be one of our guys. I think the anger towards him has died off a bit too much.

Let's not kid ourselves if UNCheat thought they could win the NIT they would not have declined. They looked at the field and bowed out early. I'd say in fear but it's not even that, it's just a matter of fact: we know we can't win so we aren't going to try. Another example of "The Carolina Way".

9F

[freshmanjs]

I've seen a number of posts on Reddit from some very sad and hurt UNC fans that Duke declined the NIT bid in 2021. Really, Duke fans are being hypocrites for ragging on UNC for quitting this season. In fact, Duke had the same level of disappointment, you see, after starting the 2020-21 season ranked in the top 10 and then failing to make the NCAA Tournament. It's the same, what happened then and with UNC now. Please be kind to us given our state of grief.

At any rate, here is what happened. Duke played its final game of the 2021 season on Wednesday, March 10th against Louisville. It was a stirring victory with Mark Williams setting a freshmen rebounding record in the NCAA Tournament. Duke then shut the program down after a walk-on player tested positive for COVID. On Thursday, March 11th, Duke's then-Athletic Director Kevin White announced the 2020-21 season was over for Duke. Selection Sunday was the following Sunday, March 14th. Duke shut down it's program as players and coaches subsequently went into quarantine for the mandated 10-day period.

At any rate, please be kind to your UNC friends. They are hurting and lashing out, saying empty things like "the rivalry is over!" while getting into arguments with Duke fans.

I might add that the most recent season in which Duke was eligible for the NIT was 1981. Duke was in the NIT that season and lost to Purdue in the quarterfinals.

Except we released a statement saying we were available to play in the NCAA tournament

[DavidBenAkiva]

Except we released a statement saying we were available to play in the NCAA tournament

I have never seen this statement. Can you share it?

Kevin White released the following (linked in my previous post) on Thursday, March 11, 2021:

Unfortunately, after going an entire season with no positive COVID-19 tests among our men's basketball student-athletes and coaching staff, one member of our program tested positive following Wednesday's ACC Tournament game in Greensboro," Duke athletic director Kevin White said. "Since last March when the pandemic started, we have listened to our medical experts and always put safety at the forefront of any determinations regarding competition. As a result, this will end our 2020-2021 season.

This came out 3 days before Selection Sunday. When did the Duke Athletic Department share that they were available to play in the NCAA Tournament?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Just to be clear, Jalen Johnson is not one of "our guys". He's a guy that chose not to be one of our guys. I think the anger towards him has died off a bit too much.

Not here. I think it was a, erm, extremely weak move.

And yeah, we have to claim him. We recruitwd him and he flat out quit. That's on us. And him.