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  1. #861
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Music man55 View Post
    Personally, I was thrilled hearing that Hubris has Cadeau coming in this upcoming season versus the following one. I donít believe having Cadeau and Davis sharing the ball is gonna keep everyone happy on that team. Not to mention their defense, with those two small guys defending our length when we play them. Hell yeah!!!
    I haven't checked their boards lately, but I'm 95% sure that they are likely ecstatic with this announcement. They are likely saying that Cadeau was the one and only missing piece, and the only thing they needed to make a run at the final four and maybe even the national championship. I am hoping that they are entirely wrong (as they usually are), but I don't see Cadeau's reclassification and signing as a good thing for us.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  2. #862
    Cadeau is a really good reclass for the Heels. He is an elite PG. Yes, defense could be a problem, but adding a player with top-tier court vision is a huge add. With Cadeau on the team next year, UNC should really suck. Why? Because they always suck. It is in their nature to suck. Suckitude is woven into the very fabric of their beings.

  3. #863
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I haven't checked their boards lately, but I'm 95% sure that they are likely ecstatic with this announcement. They are likely saying that Cadeau was the one and only missing piece, and the only thing they needed to make a run at the final four and maybe even the national championship. I am hoping that they are entirely wrong (as they usually are), but I don't see Cadeau's reclassification and signing as a good thing for us.
    Yeah, I hate to be a Debbie Downer but I agree with rsv that this makes the Heels a better club. There are absolutely some fit issues that Carolina will have to figure out and they could have some trouble on D with a small backcourt, but a guy like Cadeau makes everyone around him better and he's probably going to mean an extra 6-8 easy points per game for the Heels... that's a big deal!
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #864
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, I hate to be a Debbie Downer but I agree with rsv that this makes the Heels a better club. There are absolutely some fit issues that Carolina will have to figure out and they could have some trouble on D with a small backcourt, but a guy like Cadeau makes everyone around him better and he's probably going to mean an extra 6-8 easy points per game for the Heels... that's a big deal!
    Yeah, in hindsight I think my front page article may have more of a negative tone then I meant it to, haha. Cadeau certainly ups the ceiling for this year's UNC squad, and undoubtedly makes them more talented. But, I think his presence also increases the possibility for another messy year... how much so is up for debate, but I think it's certainly a higher probability than it was two days ago. Roles that were clear in the locker room are suddenly unclear; how he and Davis co-exist is a major question mark; how they defend is now a HUGE question mark (and arguably already was with the loss of Black, who covered up many defensive issues with his excellent play last year).

    However, if I were a betting man, I would wager that Hubert would've preferred Cadeau stay in 2024 for many of the reasons I outlined. That doesn't mean they're worse with him on the team by any means, just that maybe this wasn't Option A in Chapel Hill.
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  5. #865
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Yeah, in hindsight I think my front page article may have more of a negative tone then I meant it to, haha. Cadeau certainly ups the ceiling for this year's UNC squad, and undoubtedly makes them more talented. But, I think his presence also increases the possibility for another messy year... how much so is up for debate, but I think it's certainly a higher probability than it was two days ago. Roles that were clear in the locker room are suddenly unclear; how he and Davis co-exist is a major question mark; how they defend is now a HUGE question mark (and arguably already was with the loss of Black, who covered up many defensive issues with his excellent play last year).

    However, if I were a betting man, I would wager that Hubert would've preferred Cadeau stay in 2024 for many of the reasons I outlined. That doesn't mean they're worse with him on the team by any means, just that maybe this wasn't Option A in Chapel Hill.
    I guess we'll see just how good a coach Hubert is this coming season. Will he be the FF type coach two seasons ago or will he be the "missed the tourney" coach of last season. I figure somewhere in between.

    GoDuke!

  6. #866
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    The 'burbs of Cary
    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    Cadeau is a really good reclass for the Heels. He is an elite PG. Yes, defense could be a problem, but adding a player with top-tier court vision is a huge add. With Cadeau on the team next year, UNC should really suck. Why? Because they always suck. It is in their nature to suck. Suckitude is woven into the very fabric of their beings.
    I like the way you think.

  7. #867
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I guess we'll see just how good a coach Hubert is this coming season. Will he be the FF type coach two seasons ago or will he be the "missed the tourney" coach of last season. I figure somewhere in between.

    GoDuke!
    This was answered up above.

    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    UNC should really suck. Why? Because they always suck. It is in their nature to suck. Suckitude is woven into the very fabric of their beings.

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    Cadeau is a really good reclass for the Heels. He is an elite PG. Yes, defense could be a problem, but adding a player with top-tier court vision is a huge add. With Cadeau on the team next year, UNC should really suck. Why? Because they always suck. It is in their nature to suck. Suckitude is woven into the very fabric of their beings.
    Except when they play us in the FF. Or did we all just wipe that unpleasant experience from our collective memory?

    Look, no one here hates the Heels more than I do. But I still think we need to be careful about jumping on their grave prematurely. They've gone from looking at a pretty bad season next year to a surprisingly optimistic one.

  9. #869
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    yeah, but

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Except when they play us in the FF. Or did we all just wipe that unpleasant experience from our collective memory?

    Look, no one here hates the Heels more than I do. But I still think we need to be careful about jumping on their grave prematurely. They've gone from looking at a pretty bad season next year to a surprisingly optimistic one.
    They're still gonna suck, because they are UNC.

  10. #870
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    What does the rotation look like for the 23-24 Heels? Who starts beside Bacot, Davis, and Cadeau?

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    What does the rotation look like for the 23-24 Heels? Who starts beside Bacot, Davis, and Cadeau?
    My guess is Harrison Ingram starts for sure and one of Cormac Ryan or Jae'lyn Withers. Ryan would give them more offensive versatility but might result in a porous defensive pairing with their two too-small guards. Withers has a better shooting percentage than Ryan from 3 but is not necessarily a shot creator and is a bit of an adventure on defense in his own way.

    No matter what, 3 of their starters will be new to the team this year. As many as 5 of the top 7 rotation could also be new to Chapel Hill. Team defense is going to be one of the first things I would worry about them if I were interested in seeing them succeed. Since I don't care for that, I look forward to many high-scoring affairs in the Dean Dome this season.

  12. #872
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Is anybody on their roster a plus defender?

  13. #873
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Is anybody on their roster a plus defender?
    That is my biggest question for them. And then there is the team defense issue. If they don't have an individual plus defender, how do they expect to form a cohesive team defense with so many new faces?

  14. #874
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Is anybody on their roster a plus defender?
    I mean, one could ask if anybody on their roster is considered an even average defender...

    I suppose Bacot is average, mostly based on his stellar rebounding. He doesn't get destroyed in the PnR and can block a shot every now and then. RJ has a rep as a fairly poor defender. So does Ryan. Withers has never really stood out on that end of the floor. I don't know much about Ingram as he played at Stanford and I have not heard much about him since he was a touted high school recruit (though not one touted for his D). Cadeau is a mystery... though his size would seem to work against him in that regard and it is pretty rare for a freshman guard to stand out on the defensive end of the floor.

    When you consider that so many of their top players are new to Chapel Hill -- and defense is something you learn by playing together -- I think it is not very likely that Carolina will be a top 40 D this coming season.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  15. #875
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I mean, one could ask if anybody on their roster is considered an even average defender...

    I suppose Bacot is average, mostly based on his stellar rebounding. He doesn't get destroyed in the PnR and can block a shot every now and then. RJ has a rep as a fairly poor defender. So does Ryan. Withers has never really stood out on that end of the floor. I don't know much about Ingram as he played at Stanford and I have not heard much about him since he was a touted high school recruit (though not one touted for his D). Cadeau is a mystery... though his size would seem to work against him in that regard and it is pretty rare for a freshman guard to stand out on the defensive end of the floor.

    When you consider that so many of their top players are new to Chapel Hill -- and defense is something you learn by playing together -- I think it is not very likely that Carolina will be a top 40 D this coming season.
    From evanmiya.com, here are the DBPR ratings for some the key players last year. 0 is the average across all college players (all the way through the benchwarmers on bad teams):
    Davis 0.79
    Bacot 0.78
    Ingram 0.47
    Ryan 0.11
    Withers -0.02


    For comparison:
    Flip 2.17
    Mitchell 1.60
    Proctor 1.07
    Young 0.63
    Roach 0.47
    (Lively was 2.16)

    In other words, our worst defenders are about equal to Carolina's best.

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by dlmzzz View Post
    From evanmiya.com, here are the DBPR ratings for some the key players last year. 0 is the average across all college players (all the way through the benchwarmers on bad teams):
    Davis 0.79
    Bacot 0.78
    Ingram 0.47
    Ryan 0.11
    Withers -0.02


    For comparison:
    Flip 2.17
    Mitchell 1.60
    Proctor 1.07
    Young 0.63
    Roach 0.47
    (Lively was 2.16)

    In other words, our worst defenders are about equal to Carolina's best.
    I understand that it is simply a metric, but my eyes tell me Roach is a better defender than RJ.

  17. #877
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Interesting stats. I thought Ingram was supposed to be a good defender. He certainly isnít a shooter, so if his defense is also mediocre then what exactly does he bring? I guess we should keep in mind that he, Withers, Ryan, and the guy from Brown all played on terrible teams last year. Maybe that dragged them down, or maybe not.

    Fans tend to overlook the importance of defense, but in this case I think UNC fans are really, REALLY ignoring how bad their defense will be and how difficult it will be for them to outscore their opponents. A backcourt of Cadeau/Davis/Ryan is going to be handing out a lot of biscuitsÖ to the other team.

  18. #878
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    I'll be honest... if I had to put money -- right now -- on the player who would win ACC Freshman of the Year in 2023-24, I'm probably putting my money on Cadeau (McCain and Louisville's Trenty Flowers would be my backup picks).

    Sorry folks, I think he's gonna have a pretty big impact. There's almost no way he doesn't lead ACC freshmen in assists.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #879
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    That’s a good point. But it’s not a given that, playing alongside Davis, Cadeau will have the ball in his hands enough to make a noticeable difference on that front. Could very well happen, but that would require giving a freshman point guard a lot more time with the ball in his hands than a senior point guard (who, we should note, doesn’t have a great track record of producing while off the ball).
    I think Davis, like Jeremy Roach, is much better characterized as a combo guard or an undersized 2 than a true point guard. If he plays at the next level, it will almost surely as a change of pace guy off the bench rather than a floor general of any sort.

    Davis and Roach have very similar assist rates and A/TO ratios through 3 years, and like Roach, Davis has the quickness to penetrate but lacks the vision and anticipation to be a great creator for others. Cadeau would appear to be the much better option for the starting PG, with Davis moving technically off-ball but still having it in his hands a lot, a la Roach or Quinn Cook.

  20. #880
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I'll be honest... if I had to put money -- right now -- on the player who would win ACC Freshman of the Year in 2023-24, I'm probably putting my money on Cadeau (McCain and Louisville's Trenty Flowers would be my backup picks).

    Sorry folks, I think he's gonna have a pretty big impact. There's almost no way he doesn't lead ACC freshmen in assists.
    Under Roy Williams, it would be very likely. Pass-first PGs flourished in his offense. I still donít have a good feel for Hubertís ability but I would not be surprised if Cadeau was an assist machine.

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