Tar Heels off-season thread

[budwom]

He's ranked essentially the same as McCain who is not considered a one-n-done type of prospect.

And what makes Proctor such a great NBA PG prospect is due to his height and length, something Cadeau will never have.

Don't get me wrong, he's fantastic prospect but he's a multi-year guy that'll need to develop a jumpshot and pack on about 15 lbs to get drafted in the first round.

Perhaps you are correct, but he has recently stated (when he re-classified) that he very much sees himself as a one and done guy. We'll see.

[sagegrouse]

Cadeau is a true gift.

Vous avez raison

[dlmzzz]

This is fascinating to me, and seems like a huge overreaction by UNC to losing GG last year. Yes, if Cadeau was dead-set on reclassing and UNC didn't have the PT for him, losing him would be a bad look in light of losing GG last year. But like Jason and UC, I just don't see the fit here at all, especially with how Hubert had admirably reshaped his roster via the transfer portal. The pieces he brought in fit, at least on paper, with the lead duo of Davis and Bacot. But Cadeau's fit alongside Davis is a huge question mark.

...

This undoubtedly makes UNC more talented this upcoming season, and perhaps that's a good thing for the strength of the ACC. But it wouldn't surprise me if perhaps they start out fast, but as teams learn how to exploit a Davis/Cadeau combo defensively they tail off. All the scouting on Cadeau seems to emphasize that he's a pass-first guy with a decent shot that's never emphasized as a strength, so I'm not sure how he'll help with the floor spacing issues that plagued UNC last year.

The big problem with this (from a Duke point of view) is that UNC's best player by far is Bacot, and that UNC utterly failed last year at getting him the ball. Yes, spacing may still be an issue, but if Bacot gets more touches that is terrible news for the rest of the conference.

[scottdude8]

The big problem with this (from a Duke point of view) is that UNC's best player by far is Bacot, and that UNC utterly failed last year at getting him the ball. Yes, spacing may still be an issue, but if Bacot gets more touches that is terrible news for the rest of the conference.

That’s a good point. But it’s not a given that, playing alongside Davis, Cadeau will have the ball in his hands enough to make a noticeable difference on that front. Could very well happen, but that would require giving a freshman point guard a lot more time with the ball in his hands than a senior point guard (who, we should note, doesn’t have a great track record of producing while off the ball).

[camion]

Vous avez raison

I know. I parle Fancais.


But in French class we always snickered at "You have raisins."

[dukelifer]

That’s a good point. But it’s not a given that, playing alongside Davis, Cadeau will have the ball in his hands enough to make a noticeable difference on that front. Could very well happen, but that would require giving a freshman point guard a lot more time with the ball in his hands than a senior point guard (who, we should note, doesn’t have a great track record of producing while off the ball).

Very interested to see how Hubert handles this roster. Guys transferred thinking they would get playing time and now it is getting potentially eaten up bit by bit. Hubert's teams have been slow out of the gate. Should be interesting- particularly on D.

[roywhite]

That’s a good point. But it’s not a given that, playing alongside Davis, Cadeau will have the ball in his hands enough to make a noticeable difference on that front. Could very well happen, but that would require giving a freshman point guard a lot more time with the ball in his hands than a senior point guard (who, we should note, doesn’t have a great track record of producing while off the ball).

Maybe Cadeau would have been a better fit to join the Class of 2024 as originally planned?

Who pushed the idea of re-classification? Was it the player and his family or Coach Hubert Davis who may be feeling some pressure to win now?

[scottdude8]

Maybe Cadeau would have been a better fit to join the Class of 2024 as originally planned?

Who pushed the idea of re-classification? Was it the player and his family or Coach Hubert Davis who may be feeling some pressure to win now?

It certainly seemed like Cadeau… he flat out said this was motivated largely by his desire to be eligible for the 2024 Draft.

If I had to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d say that Cadeau told Hubert he wanted to reclassify one way or the other. Hubert didn’t want him going elsewhere after that happened with GG Jackson last year… that’d be a pretty bad look. So he said come to campus now and we’ll make it work. IF anything like that happened, I have a sneaky suspicion it could work out poorly in the short term this year, but also next year (as Cadeau won’t be headlining the 2024 class as planned), and perhaps longer if more current players become disillusioned by getting pushed down the pecking order yet again.

Again, a conspiracy theory. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a grain of truth in there, specifically that Hubert ideally wanted Cadeau in 2024.

[dukelifer]

It certainly seemed like Cadeau… he flat out said this was motivated largely by his desire to be eligible for the 2024 Draft.

If I had to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d say that Cadeau told Hubert he wanted to reclassify one way or the other. Hubert didn’t want him going elsewhere after that happened with GG Jackson last year… that’d be a pretty bad look. So he said come to campus now and we’ll make it work. IF anything like that happened, I have a sneaky suspicion it could work out poorly in the short term this year, but also next year (as Cadeau won’t be headlining the 2024 class as planned), and perhaps longer if more current players become disillusioned by getting pushed down the pecking order yet again.

Again, a conspiracy theory. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a grain of truth in there, specifically that Hubert ideally wanted Cadeau in 2024.

On highlights, Cadeau seems to be very similar to McCain- they even have the same hair style. Cadeau may be a better passer and McCain a better shooter (and dancer).

[dukelion]

That’s a good point. But it’s not a given that, playing alongside Davis, Cadeau will have the ball in his hands enough to make a noticeable difference on that front. Could very well happen, but that would require giving a freshman point guard a lot more time with the ball in his hands than a senior point guard (who, we should note, doesn’t have a great track record of producing while off the ball).

Agreed

Davis is a proven senior so you can guarantee he's gonna have the ball in his hands for numerous possessions throughout the game. Meaning Cadeau will be on off-ball SG for numerous possessions throughout the game.

One has to think they'd rather have Wojick or Ryan taking the inevitable open 3's but I guess we'll just have to see how Cadeau does.

[sagegrouse]

One has to think they'd rather have Wojick or Ryan taking the inevitable open 3's but I guess we'll just have to see how Cadeau does.

Now is Cormac Ryan the one with gray hair, or am I confusing him with Kevin Love?

[UrinalCake]

The big problem with this (from a Duke point of view) is that UNC's best player by far is Bacot, and that UNC utterly failed last year at getting him the ball. Yes, spacing may still be an issue, but if Bacot gets more touches that is terrible news for the rest of the conference.

Bacot didn’t get the ball because Caleb Love preferred to jack up 30 footers. But also because defenses figured out they can help off Leaky Black and double team Bacot any time he gets the ball. Black is gone and they have replaced him with Harrison Ingram who has miraculously managed to be an even worse shooter than Black.

[JasonEvans]

It certainly seemed like Cadeau… he flat out said this was motivated largely by his desire to be eligible for the 2024 Draft.

If I had to put my tinfoil hat on, I’d say that Cadeau told Hubert he wanted to reclassify one way or the other. Hubert didn’t want him going elsewhere after that happened with GG Jackson last year… that’d be a pretty bad look. So he said come to campus now and we’ll make it work. IF anything like that happened, I have a sneaky suspicion it could work out poorly in the short term this year, but also next year (as Cadeau won’t be headlining the 2024 class as planned), and perhaps longer if more current players become disillusioned by getting pushed down the pecking order yet again.

Again, a conspiracy theory. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a grain of truth in there, specifically that Hubert ideally wanted Cadeau in 2024.

Cadeau is a bit old for his class. He turns 19 in September, which is the age of most guys in the current class of 2023. If he had stayed in the 2024 class and then entered the draft in 2025, he would have turned 21 just prior to the start of the NBA preseason. NBA teams don't like that out of freshmen.

Whether his play this coming year justifies him going OAD, he needed to give himself a chance at that given his age and how the NBA sometimes really marks down dudes as they get older.

[BrummieDevil]

The big problem with this (from a Duke point of view) is that UNC's best player by far is Bacot, and that UNC utterly failed last year at getting him the ball. Yes, spacing may still be an issue, but if Bacot gets more touches that is terrible news for the rest of the conference.

As a junior, Bacot averaged 11.0 FGA, 5.6 FTA and 16.3 points.

As a senior, Bacot averaged 10.4 FGA, 6.5 FTA and 15.9 points.

Yes, having a legitimate point guard should help, but I'm having a tough time seeing how he was used any differently in 22/23 than he was in 21/22 (to the point of the offense "utterly failing" to get him the ball). His usage percentage even increased from 24.3 to 25.9 last season.

[UrinalCake]

Yes, having a legitimate point guard should help, but I'm having a tough time seeing how he was used any differently in 22/23 than he was in 21/22 (to the point of the offense "utterly failing" to get him the ball). His usage percentage even increased from 24.3 to 25.9 last season.

I think it's a case of the eye test differing from the metrics. I watched a fair amount of UNC games last season and down the stretch of several close games they just didn't get the ball to Bacot. Especially later in the season, there were key games where he was clearly underused. In their final regular season loss to us he took 8 shots compared to Love (12), Davis (13) and even Black (16). In their ACCT loss to UVA he had just 4 attempts, though injuries played a role. Even going back to that 4OT loss to Alabama which would have put them in the tournament had they won, he had 12 FGA attempts while Love had 36. He likely got the ball more against weaker opponents to account for the overall stats.

[ChillinDuke]

I wonder sometimes if the injury bug will bite Bacot this year. He has had some injuries in his past - nothing major, but enough to limit him at various points. He's now 23 and will turn 24 before next season ends. Sometimes big bodies don't have longevity and start to wear down, even at a relatively young age. If you consider the window of high-level basketball to start at the bleeding edge of 15 years old and end at the bleeding edge of 40 years old, Bacot will be >36% through his playing window by the end of this season.

- Chillin

[AGDukesky]

I think it's a case of the eye test differing from the metrics. I watched a fair amount of UNC games last season and down the stretch of several close games they just didn't get the ball to Bacot. Especially later in the season, there were key games where he was clearly underused. In their final regular season loss to us he took 8 shots compared to Love (12), Davis (13) and even Black (16). In their ACCT loss to UVA he had just 4 attempts, though injuries played a role. Even going back to that 4OT loss to Alabama which would have put them in the tournament had they won, he had 12 FGA attempts while Love had 36. He likely got the ball more against weaker opponents to account for the overall stats.

I don’t have your tolerance for watching UNC games, but the few I did watch played out exactly how you described. I was shocked Bacot didn’t get the ball more down the stretch against us simply because he draws so many fouls. Previous years he would just get every offensive rebound so you didn’t have to feed him, but last year Duke had guys who could box him out. No complaints though…

[KKDL19]

I, for one, am happy when the Hells are "competitive" bc then beating them is all that much more fun.

[Music man55]

Personally, I was thrilled hearing that Hubris has Cadeau coming in this upcoming season versus the following one. I don’t believe having Cadeau and Davis sharing the ball is gonna keep everyone happy on that team. Not to mention their defense, with those two small guys defending our length when we play them. Hell yeah!!!

[BrummieDevil]

I think it's a case of the eye test differing from the metrics. I watched a fair amount of UNC games last season and down the stretch of several close games they just didn't get the ball to Bacot. Especially later in the season, there were key games where he was clearly underused. In their final regular season loss to us he took 8 shots compared to Love (12), Davis (13) and even Black (16). In their ACCT loss to UVA he had just 4 attempts, though injuries played a role. Even going back to that 4OT loss to Alabama which would have put them in the tournament had they won, he had 12 FGA attempts while Love had 36. He likely got the ball more against weaker opponents to account for the overall stats.

That makes sense. Love is an all-timer of a chucker, so having a PG who (in theory) gets the ball to Bacot and does so in the right place will make a difference.

But I'm not sold on Bacot actually being particularly good. His per 100 possessions numbers have been really similar the past three seasons, for instance. I know UNC fans would cite his injury, but Bacot's senior year ended with a whimper. They were desperate and he just wasn't impactful as they refused to play their way into the tourney.