Tar Heels off-season thread

[scottdude8]

Ant Wright is pretty legit (I highly recommend his Filipowski's highschool scouting report). And looks like everyone's responses to the tweet seem to indicate that Ian Jackson will be reclassifying.

Jackson would be another fascinating addition. He's another dude that absolutely needs the ball in his hands to be successful as he hasn't shown too much of a consistent 3 ball. It would give them a fantastic wing option but pairing him with Cadeau is not gonna yield high shooting percentages from deep.

But definitely improves their ceiling/roof.

Are you sure? What I saw from both sources was regarding another DEcommitment.

[dukelion]

Are you sure? What I saw from both sources was regarding another DEcommitment.

I assume the decommitment will be related to Jackson's arrival.

[brevity]

FWIW, and take it with the massive grain of salt you should with any Twitter reporting… but Ant Wright, a legit CBB journalist who like Andrew Slater likes to make not so vague hints at things he knows on Twitter recently implied that there may be more departures from this Tar Heels recruiting class.

Again, it’s a “Twitter insider,” but one with a track record and the follower numbers to back it up. Apply your own critical thinking skills and draw whatever conclusions you see fit.

https://twitter.com/itsantwright/sta...cT35mxugtfMCvw

It's not just Ant Wright and Slater. This Trilly Donovan character, who is also prone to cryptic posts like Andrew Slater, has hinted the same thing. Donovan and Slater must see eye-to-eye because they have exchanged open nods at each other about this situation and others. Other would-be public insiders are also nodding in agreement. It'll be interesting to see if another recruit begs out of their commitment and what that might mean for the UNC coaching staff.

To me, this still falls well into the city limits of Rumorville (established in 1758 by the Brits, who called it "Rumourville"). It's interesting, no doubt, and I've read similar stuff in other places. But until fantasy becomes reported fact, I don't feel comfortable spreading it in a public forum that frowns upon rumors of any form, even the fun kind that brings us closer to Schadenfreude (a nearby German village, established in 1843).

I check Trilly Donovan's Twitter account regularly. It's the junk food part of my website rotation. One recent accusation is that Trilly and other anonymous insiders are subscribing to premium ($) fan sites and bulletin boards, and just repeating what they've read there in some cryptic language. That theory has some appeal. Which is more likely: an anonymous insider that is tuned in to almost every major college basketball program, or a pretender who corrals all the inside information available from other sites? Put another way: if it's Summer 2022 and you know that Tyrese Proctor is reclassifying soon, do you whisper that to a Duke insider or a general insider?

The obsession with Trilly Donovan by traditional reporters is one of the weirdest developments I've seen this offseason. You have a ton of speculation about who Trilly Donovan really is (if it's not Mark Titus, certainly his Club Trillion inspired the name), the increasing mentions of Trilly Donovan in regular reporting, and even people like Andrew Slater openly dipping into the hints/rumors business. It's getting increasingly difficult to keep these worlds separate, and at some point the DBR moderators are going to have to decide how to handle the fun rumor phenomenon.

Until then, this is my policy: I don't mention anything I've read from Trilly Donovan in the forums until it's been officially reported as right (or wrong). I have a terrific screenshot of a hilarious Trilly tweet that I'm saving for when the issue becomes settled, or moot.

Edited to add: I see more rumors flying as I was writing this post. Great.

[scottdude8]

To me, this still falls well into the city limits of Rumorville (established in 1758 by the Brits, who called it "Rumourville"). It's interesting, no doubt, and I've read similar stuff in other places. But until fantasy becomes reported fact, I don't feel comfortable spreading it in a public forum that frowns upon rumors of any form, even the fun kind that brings us closer to Schadenfreude (a nearby German village, established in 1843).

I check Trilly Donovan's Twitter account regularly. It's the junk food part of my website rotation. One recent accusation is that Trilly and other anonymous insiders are subscribing to premium ($) fan sites and bulletin boards, and just repeating what they've read there in some cryptic language. That theory has some appeal. Which is more likely: an anonymous insider that is tuned in to almost every major college basketball program, or a pretender who corrals all the inside information available from other sites? Put another way: if it's Summer 2022 and you know that Tyrese Proctor is reclassifying soon, do you whisper that to a Duke insider or a general insider?

The obsession with Trilly Donovan by traditional reporters is one of the weirdest developments I've seen this offseason. You have a ton of speculation about who Trilly Donovan really is (if it's not Mark Titus, certainly his Club Trillion inspired the name), the increasing mentions of Trilly Donovan in regular reporting, and even people like Andrew Slater openly dipping into the hints/rumors business. It's getting increasingly difficult to keep these worlds separate, and at some point the DBR moderators are going to have to decide how to handle the fun rumor phenomenon.

Until then, this is my policy: I don't mention anything I've read from Trilly Donovan in the forums until it's been officially reported as right (or wrong). I have a terrific screenshot of a hilarious Trilly tweet that I'm saving for when the issue becomes settled, or moot.

Edited to add: I see more rumors flying as I was writing this post. Great.

I feel you brev… Twitter journalism is a weird new space. For me, I think it’s on the right side of the rumor line if you source the the tweet, do some confirmation and rational thinking re: the source, and provide the necessary caveats. Saying what Ant Wright reported is different than a rando with 100 followers. But I’m open to being told I’m wrong by my fellow mods.

[brevity]

I feel you brev… Twitter journalism is a weird new space. For me, I think it’s on the right side of the rumor line if you source the the tweet, do some confirmation and rational thinking re: the source, and provide the necessary caveats. Saying what Ant Wright reported is different than a rando with 100 followers. But I’m open to being told I’m wrong by my fellow mods.

Is there a right side to a rumor line? Isn't it still just a well-sourced rumor? Something to ponder.

What's being said right now about Ian Jackson feels wrong to me, even if you and dukelion have read it in multiple places. I've read it too. We can talk about Simeon Wilcher's decommitment now that it's happened, and to my knowledge, it went straight from vague fan supposition to fact. I've been paying enough attention since Elliot Cadeau reclassed, and while Trilly and the others talked about UNC, they never got involved in any Wilcher discussion.

The Duke equivalent is obvious: Mackenzie Mgbako decommitted about 30 minutes after Kyle Filipowski's return was announced, so there was never a time for vague fan supposition ("I wonder if how the incoming freshmen will feel about their playing time if we get some guys to come back as sophomores") to become rumor. But when Jeremy Roach chose to withdraw from the draft, the Caleb Foster speculation went straight to rumor, discussed by anybody and everybody, and pretty much stayed that way until he came to Durham last week.

[normk]

Is there a right side to a rumor line? Isn't it still just a well-sourced rumor? Something to ponder.

What's being said right now about Ian Jackson feels wrong to me, even if you and dukelion have read it in multiple places. I've read it too. We can talk about Simeon Wilcher's decommitment now that it's happened, and to my knowledge, it went straight from vague fan supposition to fact. I've been paying enough attention since Elliot Cadeau reclassed, and while Trilly and the others talked about UNC, they never got involved in any Wilcher discussion.

The Duke equivalent is obvious: Mackenzie Mgbako decommitted about 30 minutes after Kyle Filipowski's return was announced, so there was never a time for vague fan supposition ("I wonder if how the incoming freshmen will feel about their playing time if we get some guys to come back as sophomores") to become rumor. But when Jeremy Roach chose to withdraw from the draft, the Caleb Foster speculation went straight to rumor, discussed by anybody and everybody, and pretty much stayed that way until he came to Durham last week.

feels like there’s a difference you’re neglecting. there wasn’t a single insider (duke or otherwise) who suggested Foster or McCain were getting cold feet. Just idiot fans who tried to connect the dots for twitter clout.

[JasonEvans]

The Duke equivalent is obvious: Mackenzie Mgbako decommitted about 30 minutes after Kyle Filipowski's return was announced, so there was never a time for vague fan supposition ("I wonder if how the incoming freshmen will feel about their playing time if we get some guys to come back as sophomores") to become rumor.

To be clear, it is my understanding that the Mgbako situation had zero, nothing, nada to do with Flip's announcement. They happened to coincide, but were not at all connected.

As for the discussion about rumors from Twitter, I think that if a legitimate reporter is talking about something on Twitter, it is allowed here. As Scott mentioned, there is a difference in someone who has built a reputation over time and "some rando with 100 followers."

Also, I love the way Scott just slipped, "my fellow mods" into his post. Welcome to the team, pal!

[scottdude8]

Is there a right side to a rumor line? Isn't it still just a well-sourced rumor? Something to ponder.

What's being said right now about Ian Jackson feels wrong to me, even if you and dukelion have read it in multiple places. I've read it too. We can talk about Simeon Wilcher's decommitment now that it's happened, and to my knowledge, it went straight from vague fan supposition to fact. I've been paying enough attention since Elliot Cadeau reclassed, and while Trilly and the others talked about UNC, they never got involved in any Wilcher discussion.

The Duke equivalent is obvious: Mackenzie Mgbako decommitted about 30 minutes after Kyle Filipowski's return was announced, so there was never a time for vague fan supposition ("I wonder if how the incoming freshmen will feel about their playing time if we get some guys to come back as sophomores") to become rumor. But when Jeremy Roach chose to withdraw from the draft, the Caleb Foster speculation went straight to rumor, discussed by anybody and everybody, and pretty much stayed that way until he came to Durham last week.

To clarify, I didn’t say anything about Ian Jackson… I only said there were indications from insiders that another decommitment could be coming.

For me, the line for a rumor is sourcing. If there’s a reputable journalist, even on Twitter, who is hinting at something, that’s a piece of news that has some source… we can then evaluate that source to come to our own conclusions. If there isn’t a specific source and there is just “chatter”, that’s a rumor.

That said, you’re opinion on this is 100% valid. This is a new world and we all need to tread lightly, myself included… I’ll continue to think hard whenever I post something along these lines and hope everyone else does the same.

[JasonEvans]

So, if there is another decommitment from UNC (as several notable sources seem to be implying) it should not be hard to figure out who it will be.

The only other incoming freshman is forward Zayden High, a top 75 kinda recruit. You have to figure he is behind Jalen Washington and Jae'Lyn Withers in the PF rotation. Washington is a soph and Withers is a junior so High could be looking at a couple years of riding the pine and waiting his turn. I don't know a lot about him, but I don't think High is a kid who figures to play SF in addition to PF and with Harrison Ingram on the roster for at least one year (maybe more) you would have to think minutes at the SF spot are also pretty limited.

I suppose it is possible that the decommitment talk relates to one of the portal players. It is not impossible to imagine Cormac Ryan being a little frustrated at the arrival of Eliot Cadeau and the possibility it would push him to the bench. If Cadeau starts, one of Ryan or Withers gets bumped down the rotation (depends on whether Ingram plays SF or PF).

In other news, Ian Jackson addressed the reclass rumors yesterday saying he is not considering it any longer. He plans to be at UNC in 2024-25. https://247sports.com/article/ian-ja...vis-211251288/

"I have considered (reclassifying) but I want to take this year to prepare my body and my mind to walk into UNC as a professional.”

[jamos14]

To be clear, it is my understanding that the Mgbako situation had zero, nothing, nada to do with Flip's announcement. They happened to coincide, but were not at all connected.

This feels very hard to believe to me. It reeks of damage control. But it will never be public knowledge anyway so I guess we will just have to let it be.

[UrinalCake]

[Jackson]: "I have considered (reclassifying) but I want to take this year to prepare my body and my mind to walk into UNC as a professional.”

IMG_4708.jpg

[bshrader]

To be clear, it is my understanding that the Mgbako situation had zero, nothing, nada to do with Flip's announcement. They happened to coincide, but were not at all connected.

As for the discussion about rumors from Twitter, I think that if a legitimate reporter is talking about something on Twitter, it is allowed here. As Scott mentioned, there is a difference in someone who has built a reputation over time and "some rando with 100 followers."

Also, I love the way Scott just slipped, "my fellow mods" into his post. Welcome to the team, pal!

I trust your sources fully, Jason. As I know you are well-connected to the program. My only question from this (and only for entertaining discussion purposes cause it makes no difference at this point) would be was the timing of the release of his decision coincidental? Or possibly used as a convenient cover?

[gumbomoop]

The only other incoming freshman is forward Zayden High, a top 75 kinda recruit. You have to figure he is behind Jalen Washington and Jae'Lyn Withers in the PF rotation.

I have several questions about (1) Washington’s likely role in ‘23-‘24, and the implications of that role for (2) Bacot’s minutes.

Given the addition of Withers, I assume Washington will be the primary backup at both the 4 and the 5. That sound right? Would we expect Washington to play only 7-8 mpg at the 5? Which is another way of asking the larger question: will Bacot be expected to play 32-33 mpg?

In his impressive junior season (16.3/13.1/1.7), Bacot played 31.6 mpg. Down a bit in all categories in his good-but-disappointing senior season, playing 30.3 mpg.

So, increased minutes for Bacot? Significant minutes — 15+ — for untested Washington as backup 4 and 5?

[AGDukesky]

IMG_4708.jpg

His understanding of that word is…NIL?

[budwom]

So, if there is another decommitment from UNC (as several notable sources seem to be implying) it should not be hard to figure out who it will be.

The only other incoming freshman is forward Zayden High, a top 75 kinda recruit. You have to figure he is behind Jalen Washington and Jae'Lyn Withers in the PF rotation. Washington is a soph and Withers is a junior so High could be looking at a couple years of riding the pine and waiting his turn. I don't know a lot about him, but I don't think High is a kid who figures to play SF in addition to PF and with Harrison Ingram on the roster for at least one year (maybe more) you would have to think minutes at the SF spot are also pretty limited.

I suppose it is possible that the decommitment talk relates to one of the portal players. It is not impossible to imagine Cormac Ryan being a little frustrated at the arrival of Eliot Cadeau and the possibility it would push him to the bench. If Cadeau starts, one of Ryan or Withers gets bumped down the rotation (depends on whether Ingram plays SF or PF).

In other news, Ian Jackson addressed the reclass rumors yesterday saying he is not considering it any longer. He plans to be at UNC in 2024-25. https://247sports.com/article/ian-ja...vis-211251288/

I disagree. I believe it is Jackson who is rumored (I know, I know) to be getting cold feet. I have zero personal knowledge but there are rumblings...

[JasonEvans]

This feels very hard to believe to me. It reeks of damage control. But it will never be public knowledge anyway so I guess we will just have to let it be.

Look, I'm just gonna tell you that this was one of those very rare occasions where I had really good sources -- not third or fourth hand stuff -- and I was hearing about this well before Flip made his announcement. I'm not going to get into specifics but I can assure you that Mgbako's not attending Duke had nothing, zero, nada to do with the roster construction or other player decisions.

It is also worth pointing out that when Mgbako committed to Duke, the assumption was that Flip and likely Mitchell would both be around for more than 1 season.

Ok,. let's leave it there. Thanks.

[dukelion]

Is there a right side to a rumor line? Isn't it still just a well-sourced rumor? Something to ponder.

What's being said right now about Ian Jackson feels wrong to me, even if you and dukelion have read it in multiple places. I've read it too. We can talk about Simeon Wilcher's decommitment now that it's happened, and to my knowledge, it went straight from vague fan supposition to fact. I've been paying enough attention since Elliot Cadeau reclassed, and while Trilly and the others talked about UNC, they never got involved in any Wilcher discussion.

The Ian Jackson reclass potential has been reported on extensively.


https://247sports.com/Article/UNC-basketball-5-star-commits-Ian-Jackson-Elliot-Cadeau-headline-reclassification-candidates-to-know-for-2023-209477478/


I'm glad that he's now addressed it but I sort of take issue with the rumor mongering accusation. I mean it's pretty obvious this wasn't random speculation, rather a natural extension of the conversation that originated from numerous well sourced/respected articles.

Anyways...such is life in DBR message boards.

[DavidBenAkiva]

As for the discussion about rumors from Twitter, I think that if a legitimate reporter is talking about something on Twitter, it is allowed here. As Scott mentioned, there is a difference in someone who has built a reputation over time and "some rando with 100 followers."

This seems like a fair policy as I think my post history should fit within the constraints. I don't read or repost things from accounts with very small followings. I mentioned upthread that UNC rumors were being openly discussed by more than just one or two well-known accounts. I subscribe to another premium board as well at The Athletic and try not to post what comes from there unless it has hit the "open internet." Once something is out there, though, I think we can and should talk about it here. I don't think that is any different than noting that a crystal ball selection has been made. It's out there; let's talk.

[scottdude8]

This seems like a fair policy as I think my post history should fit within the constraints. I don't read or repost things from accounts with very small followings. I mentioned upthread that UNC rumors were being openly discussed by more than just one or two well-known accounts. I subscribe to another premium board as well at The Athletic and try not to post what comes from there unless it has hit the "open internet." Once something is out there, though, I think we can and should talk about it here. I don't think that is any different than noting that a crystal ball selection has been made. It's out there; let's talk.

Definitely. Again, though, I think the "line" (at least in my view) is sourced versus unsourced. If by "out there" you mean multiple Twitter sources with a track record and following are posting/hinting at it, then let's discuss, starting from the primary source (i.e., include a link!). If you're just saying "there are rumblings" and you can't point to a specific Tweet by an even somewhat reputable source, that to me is indicative either of rumor mongering or of trying to hint at something that still hasn't hit the "open internet".

[budwom]

There ought to be a rule that states that anything that exposes or denigrates the tarheels is fair game.