Hmm. Seems to me the first one, at a minimum, is accepted in the men's game. It didn't seem to happen in the final this year, but I do seem to recall significant discussion about it in at least one other game.
I don't think there would have been much discussion about the second one in the men's game, because I think the officials would have been highly concerned about an all-out brawl and would have slapped out a T faster than lightning. Heck, men's players have been slapped with T's for things as trivial as patting their heads while running up court. Any gesture made directly to an opponent like that would be have been penalized immediately. And giving a technical foul there would have garnered like four post-game comments from the idiot fringe. So this point is related to the first one.
I agree on the last one, though. Bad idea, and likely just wouldn't have happened on the men's side.
Strong disagree on both points.
Yes, we all know the Tennessee/Duke game was reffed poorly. But it was nothing compared to the calls in the women's championship game. Phantom calls, no calls, non-existent technicals that they attempted to rationalize later on.
If a referee travesty of that level happened in the men's game the outcry would be over the top. One or two bad calls in any title game are scrutinized. An entire game of completely flummoxing calls is absolutely unacceptable.
And if you don't think any men's game is completely full of trash talking and gestures that aren't whistled, well, I don't know what to tell you. That was focused on by the media solely because it was a women's game.
I saw worse things playing church league basketball in 8th grade.
Regardless - my point is that all these controversies and media blitzes have completely taken away from a championship game with two great team, amazing performances, a score over 100, and more. It's just very disappointing.
Hard disagree. That was on camera and in the open floor at center stage. The refs obviously let a lot of player-to-player talking happen out of the limelight, and that happens in both the men's and women's games. Angel Reese made the "too small" gesture several times while running up court after a score, and nobody is talking about those. This was categorically different, and if that kind of open, overt, center-stage taunt had happened in a men's game, it would have been stopped by the officials - well, by competent officials - instantly. And if someone had somehow miraculously gotten away with that without getting whistled or body-slammed at the end of a men's final, we'd be talking about that, too. But there's not way to prove the counter-factual, so I'll just let it go at that.
What is amazing to me is that folks are still talking about the women and UConn winning its 5th championship is only being discussed because of the historic low ratings. Women’s ball is on the rise with the stars, controversy and trash talking.
Perhaps I should offer a euphemism, "feline fracas," as an explanation of male sports fan interest in LSU-Iowa and the aftermath. Or, maybe I shouldn't.
I wholeheartedly disagree. But I'm fine disagreeing and we don't seem very close to finding common ground.
I think there is WAY more trash talk, taunting, gestures, etc in men's basketball than you do apparently.
Regardless, hoping that Duke can find a path to a women's team as talented and dynamic as those on display in the Final Four.
No there, we whole-heartedly agree! I think we're getting close, and I'm interested to see what happens when the portal starts to swing in the other direction.
And in furtherance of your original point, it was some impressive basketball in the final, despite the distractions.
Facts are facts. UNC has the largest fan base in a swing state. National pols, unless otherwise connected to Duke, will tend to show up at UNC. Here are the last two presidential visits to Duke/Trinity:
(1) Ronald Reagan in 1988 (war on drugs tour)
(2) Teddy Roosevelt in 1905 (in praise of academic freedom and Duke prof John Spencer Bassett)
UNC's haul is seven. Recent are FDR, JFK, Clinton and Obama. And then 19th century visits from alum James K. Polk, Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.
OTOH, maybe the worm is turning -- Joe Biden was in Durham last week to hail the tech company Wolfspeed.
Sage Grouse
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'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013