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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Maybe it is just me, but if someone says, "I need you to come over here and bring your gun," the smart response is, "Nope."

    If Nate Oats had a brain, he would be talking about "internal discipline" and "teaching Brandon important lessons he will need for the rest of his life" and stuff that at least makes it sound like Miller has faced some sort of punishment and learned some sort of lesson. "Wrong place, wrong time" is just the lamest response possible and a great way for Oats to blow this thing up into an even bigger story.
    Or... No comment on the pending investigation.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Here is how stupid Nate Oats is…

    Alabama‘s next two games are at South Carolina, arguably the worst team in the SEC, and hosting Arkansas, a middle of the pack conference team that doesn’t play very well on the road.

    Think about how differently the story would be playing right now if Nate had come out today and said, “we are disappointed in Brandon and think he should show better judgment than this. While we know that no crime was committed our standards here at the University of Alabama are higher than that. Brandon will be internally punished and suspended for our next two basketball games.“

    And, just for the sake of argument, let’s say they actually lose one of these next two games. Well, no one is going to count it as meaning anything because they were playing without Brandon Miller. In fact, by suspending him Nate Oates actually buys his team a convenient excuse if they happen to lay an egg in one of these games. Winning these games, against a pair of mediocre opponents, doesn’t enhance Alabama‘s résumé at all. A loss though would be damaging. If Nate Oates suspended his star player he would actually buy himself an excuse just in case something bad happens in the next couple games.
    It’s weird that that’s where your brain goes. Looking at their schedule, determining that a crafty coach would be able to sway this news in a positive direction for himself. It’s just weird.

    In sane world, the player should be immediately dismissed from the team and removed from the university. Why does a 20 year old living on a college campus have a gun? Better judgement? You don’t think he knew what that gun could be used for?

    In a sane world, Nate Oats would be dismissed immediately. He’s recruited criminals to the campus. The campus is less safe because of him. These aren’t students. They’re criminals who can play basketball well. He’s a slimy disgrace.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by SavDukeGrad View Post
    Wow. Every time I read more details about this situation it gets worse.

    I also watched the video of Nate Oats’ explanation with the ESPN article. He mentions that he’s sure NBA scouts will ask about the situation, and they will have to explain it. As if that’s the most important issue. Just wow.
    Situational ethics. It's almost like he's representing a school thats a part of the Situational Ethics Conference.

  4. #64
    Here’s another article that I think captures how many feel.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...g/11314346002/

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeFanNotNBAFan View Post
    It’s weird that that’s where your brain goes. Looking at their schedule, determining that a crafty coach would be able to sway this news in a positive direction for himself. It’s just weird.

    In sane world, the player should be immediately dismissed from the team and removed from the university. Why does a 20 year old living on a college campus have a gun? Better judgement? You don’t think he knew what that gun could be used for?

    In a sane world, Nate Oats would be dismissed immediately. He’s recruited criminals to the campus. The campus is less safe because of him. These aren’t students. They’re criminals who can play basketball well. He’s a slimy disgrace.
    I think a coach is either going to hold people accountable regardless or the circumstances (how good the player is, the upcoming games), or he's not. Getting in the weeds of determining the most strategic time to suspend the player almost sounds like it's suggesting the coach should be weighing the schedule in his decision. I know that's not what you're suggesting, Jason. I think you're just making the point that karma may make it even worse on Oats after he made the wrong decision.

    I would like Coach K to make a public comment and say "suggesting that we stop play during a covid wave doesn't sound too bad in hindsight, does it?"

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    That certainly gets a lot closer to aiding and abetting or a similar offense. Not just wrong place, wrong time.
    That doesn’t get a lot closer to aiding and abetting. It IS aiding and abetting a murder.

    Bringing the gun to the shooter w the intent to aid him is aiding and abetting. So is knowingly blocking the victim’s escape. Either of them individually is aiding and abetting. Doing both? No question. And I have seen people charged, and convicted, of lesser acts that were still found to be aiding and abetting the direct perpetrator’s crime, and sent to prison for it. If these are indeed the facts, or some of the facts, it is unconscionable for the police to declare that Miller committed no chargeable crime.

    He and Oats should be suspended immediately.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    That doesn’t get a lot closer to aiding and abetting. It IS aiding and abetting a murder.

    Bringing the gun to the shooter w the intent to aid him is aiding and abetting. So is knowingly blocking the victim’s escape. Either of them individually is aiding and abetting. Doing both? No question. And I have seen people charged, and convicted, of lesser acts that were still found to be aiding and abetting the direct perpetrator’s crime, and sent to prison for it. If these are indeed the facts, or some of the facts, it is unconscionable for the police to declare that Miller committed no chargeable crime.

    He and Oats should be suspended immediately.
    Absolutely! No self-respecting or law-abiding person would think otherwise. This is unconscionable behavior by both players and coach.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Apparently, Oats has begun to shuck and jive WRT his previous statement. Seen only headlines, not details.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    Apparently, Oats has begun to shuck and jive WRT his previous statement. Seen only headlines, not details.
    Yeah, he's since been quoted as saying his earlier statements "came across poorly". Uh,yeah they did! Because your earlier statements SUCKED!

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeFanNotNBAFan View Post
    It’s weird that that’s where your brain goes. Looking at their schedule, determining that a crafty coach would be able to sway this news in a positive direction for himself. It’s just weird.

    In sane world, the player should be immediately dismissed from the team and removed from the university. Why does a 20 year old living on a college campus have a gun? Better judgement? You don’t think he knew what that gun could be used for?

    In a sane world, Nate Oats would be dismissed immediately. He’s recruited criminals to the campus. The campus is less safe because of him. These aren’t students. They’re criminals who can play basketball well. He’s a slimy disgrace.
    I’ve been involved in a good bit of crisis PR work in my career (both as a PR person and as a journalist on the receiving end). When I hear about something like this, I often think, what is the best way to handle the public image side of the situation. It is just the product of years of dealing with news stories.

    So, I naturally looked at Oats getting eaten alive in the court of public opinion and thought, “how could he have handled it differently?” As a college hoops fan, I also thought about the implications of Bama missing their top player for some period of time.

    Put two and two together and I quite quickly came up with a way that could defuse the PR risk and also insulate the team from a negative outcome on the court. I thought some might find value in me posting that analysis.

    I want to be clear that I am angry and disgusted at how Oats and Bama have handled things thus far. Their callous attitude about the danger of guns and the loss of life here is reprehensible. I suspect Brandon Miller is being treated different than most anyone else in this situation because of his basketball skills, which is just awful and sends a really dangerous message to the young man about consequences and personal responsibility. If Miller gets in even worse trouble at some point in the future, you will likely be able to draw a line back to this moment where he could have learned a real lesson but was instead taught that he is “special” and immune to consequences.

    Sorry if my analysis of how Oats could have defused the entire situation offended anyone.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I’ve been involved in a good bit of crisis PR work in my career (both as a PR person and as a journalist on the receiving end). When I hear about something like this, I often think, what is the best way to handle the public image side of the situation. It is just the product of years of dealing with news stories.

    So, I naturally looked at Oats getting eaten alive in the court of public opinion and thought, “how could he have handled it differently?” As a college hoops fan, I also thought about the implications of Bama missing their top player for some period of time.

    Put two and two together and I quite quickly came up with a way that could defuse the PR risk and also insulate the team from a negative outcome on the court. I thought some might find value in me posting that analysis.

    I want to be clear that I am angry and disgusted at how Oats and Bama have handled things thus far. Their callous attitude about the danger of guns and the loss of life here is reprehensible. I suspect Brandon Miller is being treated different than most anyone else in this situation because of his basketball skills, which is just awful and sends a really dangerous message to the young man about consequences and personal responsibility. If Miller gets in even worse trouble at some point in the future, you will likely be able to draw a line back to this moment where he could have learned a real lesson but was instead taught that he is “special” and immune to consequences.

    Sorry if my analysis of how Oats could have defused the entire situation offended anyone.
    I wonder how long it will be that Law and Order SUV has an episode about this. Of course, with the disclaimer. From everything I've read here on DBR, I don't see how Oats can justify not punishing Miller. Jason, I agree that Oats is sending the wrong message to Miller and for that matter, any young person that's aware of the situation. Alabama; win at all costs.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    That doesn’t get a lot closer to aiding and abetting. It IS aiding and abetting a murder.

    Bringing the gun to the shooter w the intent to aid him is aiding and abetting. So is knowingly blocking the victim’s escape. Either of them individually is aiding and abetting. Doing both? No question. And I have seen people charged, and convicted, of lesser acts that were still found to be aiding and abetting the direct perpetrator’s crime, and sent to prison for it. If these are indeed the facts, or some of the facts, it is unconscionable for the police to declare that Miller committed no chargeable crime.

    He and Oats should be suspended immediately.
    Not only did Miller use his car to block the victim's escape, but his car was also hit with two bullets (according to the article linked earlier, quoting one of the police investigating).

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Franklin TN
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    I think a coach is either going to hold people accountable regardless or the circumstances (how good the player is, the upcoming games), or he's not. Getting in the weeds of determining the most strategic time to suspend the player almost sounds like it's suggesting the coach should be weighing the schedule in his decision. I know that's not what you're suggesting, Jason. I think you're just making the point that karma may make it even worse on Oats after he made the wrong decision.

    I would like Coach K to make a public comment and say "suggesting that we stop play during a covid wave doesn't sound too bad in hindsight, does it?"
    I was waiting for someone to bring up Oats’ comment about K during Covid. It was tasteless. I didn’t know who Oats was but thought him a jerk. Now he has opened his mouth again and proved that proposition.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMeDoIt View Post
    I was waiting for someone to bring up Oats’ comment about K during Covid. It was tasteless. I didn’t know who Oats was but thought him a jerk. Now he has opened his mouth again and proved that proposition.
    Thanks - I was meaning to look that up and post about it. For those who forget what happened, here is a description - Oats did another weak apology on this one - "I kind of want to publicly apologize" is about as lame as it gets.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...out-cbb-season

    I am still trying to digest what happened here. I appreciate the comments from the lawyers here and will defer to their expertise. Regardless of the likelihood of a guilty verdict, it is a really bad look, and Oats made it no better with his comment. If Miller claims he had no idea why he wanted the gun in the middle of the night, then he is the dumbest human being on earth. It is somewhat ironic that Nick Saban is often attributed with the saying "nothing good happens after midnight" (I am fairly sure he did not originate the saying).

    I was in Queens and Brooklyn last night so I am happy to send Cousin Vinny down if Miller needs legal help...

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I suspect Brandon Miller is being treated different than most anyone else in this situation because of his basketball skills, which is just awful and sends a really dangerous message
    Athletes/millionaires/politicians/connected people being treated differently by our legal system. I'm shocked! Shocked, I say! Next you'll be telling me there is degenerate gambling happening on this board.
    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    So if you had possession of someone else's gun, and they said to you, "Hey, I need you to bring me back my gun right now in the parking lot," that wouldn't raise any red flags for you? You wouldn't even be curious about why now and why there? That strikes me as being intentionally obtuse.

    And all of that is still consistent with a prosecutor thinking they don't have a chargeable offense they can prove in court.
    I would be curious but if they left it in my car, I would return it since its their property. People carry guns with them all the time for self defense so even if Miller had asked, Miles could've said he feels like he was in a sketchy or dangerous situation and wanted it on hand for self defense.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Right. “Legally non culpable” is not the same standard as “did nothing wrong.” I won’t speak to the legal aspect as I have no idea about that. But given the circumstances, I can’t understand anyone honestly believing he made an appropriate decision.
    It seems like Miller's lack of judgment here seems to be with the friend group he chooses to associate with rather than any actual actions of his. He was returning a gun to his friend Miles who accidentally left it in Miller's car and let his friend borrow his car. Miller wasn't involved in the shooting either directly or as an immediate accomplice.

    My advice to Brandon Miller would be to surround himself with better people but how exactly is a coach going to say that to the media? That's probably a private conversation between Nate Oats and Brandon Miller.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeFanNotNBAFan View Post
    It’s weird that that’s where your brain goes. Looking at their schedule, determining that a crafty coach would be able to sway this news in a positive direction for himself. It’s just weird.

    In sane world, the player should be immediately dismissed from the team and removed from the university. Why does a 20 year old living on a college campus have a gun? Better judgement? You don’t think he knew what that gun could be used for?

    In a sane world, Nate Oats would be dismissed immediately. He’s recruited criminals to the campus. The campus is less safe because of him. These aren’t students. They’re criminals who can play basketball well. He’s a slimy disgrace.
    Well legally speaking, a 20 year old living on a college campus is allowed to have a gun. This right won't be taken away just because the student is a basketball or football player.

    https://giffords.org/lawcenter/state...ry-in-alabama/

    "As of January 1, 2023, anyone age 18 or over who is not prohibited by state or federal law may carry a handgun in the state without a permit, background check, or safety training."

    Look I have strong feelings about the Second Amendment and its place in our society today but that has nothing to do with the legality of the matter as it stands.

    Calling Miller a criminal is out of line on your part.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    That certainly gets a lot closer to aiding and abetting or a similar offense. Not just wrong place, wrong time.
    Apparently the street leading out of the club is narrow so if two vehicles (a Dodge Challenger and a Dodge Charger) are parked adjacent to one another, there would presumably be not much room for another vehicle to pass by especially if its a SUV or a larger vehicle.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeTrinity11 View Post
    I would be curious but if they left it in my car, I would return it since its their property. People carry guns with them all the time for self defense so even if Miller had asked, Miles could've said he feels like he was in a sketchy or dangerous situation and wanted it on hand for self defense.
    I've tried to give the benefit of the doubt in my mind. I'm a firearms owner. I can picture borrowing a gun from my brother to take to the shooting range. If he texted me during the day and asked me to bring it back by his house, I would say "no problem." If he texted me at 1 in the morning and told me to bring it out to him in public, there would be questions asked. Maybe he asked questions and was lied to. That's the best benefit of the doubt I can give him. He's still probably ignorant in that situation, but so are all 19 year olds. If he asked questions and had any reason to think that weapon was going to be used to murder someone, he's guilty of a crime. If he didn't ask any questions at all, he may not technically be guilty of a crime, but he is still responsible for some wrongdoing, and the idea that he was in the wrong place at the wrong time doesn't even make any sense.

    Edit: On second thought, it's also possible that he was very uncomfortable with the fact that he had possession of this gun. He may not have known that it was legal for him to do so and may have wanted to get it back to its owner as quickly as possible. Contacting his coach or someone trustworthy when he got the request at 1 in the morning would have been the better decision, but I can see a 19 year old acting out of fear in that situation.

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