2023-2024 Roster

[heyman25]

I forgot about Ryan Young. I think there are very good odds he will return. Mitchell could be a Transfer Portal because potentially Mbgako is better as is Stewart at his position. Mitchell tough defender, but his timing and elevation are skill issues.

[MarkD83]

Heyman25 suggested a line-up and then there were comments about Proctor and Mitchell leaving and forgetting to add Young

The new "possible line up" becomes.... (I have not divided by starter or bench) but have added yrs of experience:

Front Court:
Young (GS), Reeves (So), Mgbako (Fr), Stewart (Fr), Power (Fr)

Back Court:
Grandison (GS), Blakes (Jr), Schutt (So), McCain (Fr), Foster (Fr)

Another very young team...

[MChambers]

Heyman25 suggested a line-up and then there were comments about Proctor and Mitchell leaving and forgetting to add Young

The new "possible line up" becomes... (I have not divided by starter or bench) but have added yrs of experience:

Front Court:
Young (GS), Reeves (So), Mgbako (Fr), Stewart (Fr), Power (Fr)

Back Court:
Grandison (GS), Blakes (Jr), Schutt (So), McCain (Fr), Foster (Fr)

Another very young team...

Grandison has no more eligibility.

[CDu]

Heyman25 suggested a line-up and then there were comments about Proctor and Mitchell leaving and forgetting to add Young

The new "possible line up" becomes... (I have not divided by starter or bench) but have added yrs of experience:

Front Court:
Young (GS), Reeves (So), Mgbako (Fr), Stewart (Fr), Power (Fr)

Back Court:
Grandison (GS), Blakes (Jr), Schutt (So), McCain (Fr), Foster (Fr)

Another very young team...

And it's actually even younger than that. Grandison isn't eligible for another season as this is already his bonus COVID year.

That being said, I'd expect us to add another transfer or two if we assume that none of the rotation freshmen return.

[Teton Jack]

I have problems with threads like this. Many of our colleagues automatically believe youngsters just out of high school are better players than the people we have on the previous year's lineup. They assume those wonderful high school highlight reels accurately reflect what will happen the following year. Consequently, the assumption is that the experienced need to get out of Dodge because they won't get off the bench.

I understand the thrill of anticipation; however, the only high school player that really performed as well as advertised was Zion. You can argue that Fillipowski has but he typically was mentioned as the third best player in the recruiting class. He needs some time to add strength so he can finish inside shots. Paulo didn't reach that level until near the end of his DUKE year.

In my opinion, uninformed as many of you might argue, we need more veteran experience to compete. We need Mitchell next year. I expect him to be a starter. He plays good defence and he doesn't force many shots. I would like to see him put an arc in his jumper but he has performed well and has terrific potential. Look at Blakes. He has greatly exceeded my expectations for him. Imagine what Proctor can become! We need to recognize that the down years Duke has experienced came from not having enough upper class leadership.

[CDu]

I have problems with threads like this. Many of our colleagues automatically believe youngsters just out of high school are better players than the people we have on the previous year's lineup. They assume those wonderful high school highlight reels accurately reflect what will happen the following year. Consequently, the assumption is that the experienced need to get out of Dodge because they won't get off the bench.

I think this is a substantial misrepresentation of the thread, and specifically has the causal direction wrong. I don't think anyone in this thread is interested in pushing the current freshmen out the door. Rather, we are acknowledging the reality that most if not all of the current freshmen probably have the intention of going pro after this year. Lively, Whitehead, and Filipowski are all very likely to be 1st round picks. The expectation should be that they are gone.

I understand the thrill of anticipation; however, the only high school player that really performed as well as advertised was Zion. You can argue that Fillipowski has but he typically was mentioned as the third best player in the recruiting class. He needs some time to add strength so he can finish inside shots. Paulo didn't reach that level until near the end of his DUKE year.

Banchero was a 1st Team All-ACC and 2nd Team All-American. So was Vernon Carey, and he arguably should have been ACC PoY. RJ Barrett and Jabari Parker were 1st Team All-ACC and 1st Team All-American. Marvin Bagley and Jahlil Okafor were ACC PoY and 1st Team All-Americans. Kyrie Irving surely would have been similarly honored had he not gotten hurt. I don't see any reasonable argument that they failed to achieve the expectations of them.

Zion didn't perform "as well as advertised." He performed WAY beyond anything anyone could have reasonably imagined, so much so that he probably cost RJ Barrett ACC PoY.

More often than not, when healthy our top-5 picks have been spectacular at Duke. And top-10 recruits - if healthy - have almost always been starters at Duke.

In my opinion, uninformed as many of you might argue, we need more veteran experience to compete. We need Mitchell next year. I expect him to be a starter. He plays good defence and he doesn't force many shots. I would like to see him put an arc in his jumper but he has performed well and has terrific potential. Look at Blakes. He has greatly exceeded my expectations for him. Imagine what Proctor can become! We need to recognize that the down years Duke has experienced came from not having enough upper class leadership.

Blakes has greatly exceeded your expectations of him... and yet he is barely a rotation player. Which kind of illustrates the point. The freshmen generally ARE the better players.

And again, nobody is WANTING Proctor to leave. Everyone here would love to see a sophomore Proctor, a sophomore Mitchell, a sophomore Filipowski. They would both have a real shot at starting if they return (especially Proctor, who doesn't have top-10 level comp coming in at his position). We are just recognizing the reality that these guys don't tend to stick around, ESPECIALLY when they are 1st round picks (which isn't likely to be the case for Proctor and Mitchell) but even often when they aren't.

[Southgate0809]

I have problems with threads like this. Many of our colleagues automatically believe youngsters just out of high school are better players than the people we have on the previous year's lineup. They assume those wonderful high school highlight reels accurately reflect what will happen the following year. Consequently, the assumption is that the experienced need to get out of Dodge because they won't get off the bench.

I understand the thrill of anticipation; however, the only high school player that really performed as well as advertised was Zion. You can argue that Fillipowski has but he typically was mentioned as the third best player in the recruiting class. He needs some time to add strength so he can finish inside shots. Paulo didn't reach that level until near the end of his DUKE year.

In my opinion, uninformed as many of you might argue, we need more veteran experience to compete. We need Mitchell next year. I expect him to be a starter. He plays good defence and he doesn't force many shots. I would like to see him put an arc in his jumper but he has performed well and has terrific potential. Look at Blakes. He has greatly exceeded my expectations for him. Imagine what Proctor can become! We need to recognize that the down years Duke has experienced came from not having enough upper class leadership.

I think the vast majority of Duke fans would prefer for all our freshmen to come back, but understanding how this thing works, we know that it's unlikely to have more than Reeves and Schutt return.

Interesting idea that Zion was really the only one who was as good as advertised. I would argue that Zion was the only top 3 player who actually turned out to be way better than advertised. Coming into college, there were skeptics because the highlights were just a bunch of dunks against little kids in his high school league. Turned out he also had the ability to dunk on children in college and the NBA.

I think there were others though who were as good as advertised. I think we can define "as good as advertised" in different ways. I'll define it as a top 5 recruit being ready for the NBA on day 1 of their college careers. Not the G league.

Yes for sure:
-Zion met that description for sure and was better than anyone could have imagined
-Kyrie Irving I would say was definitely as good as advertised for the games he was healthy
-I would say Okafor was at that level. I would say he was ready for the NBA, but the NBA wasn't ready for him and refuses to use someone with that skillset. You could also make the argument that he should have stayed in school to develop some modern big man skills.
-I would argue that Paolo falls in this category as well. He was one that seemed to get the job done quietly. No big flashy dunks. Not a lot of highlight reel plays, but he was pretty fantastic.
-Marvin Bagley was a scoring machine
-Vernon Carey - I don't remember how long it took him to develop throughout the season, but he was absolutely fantastic. He seems to be one we kind of forget about.
-RJ Barrett had a pretty fantastic freshman year and was overshadowed by Zion. He could really score, even if he was somewhat inefficient.

The "sort of" category:
-Tatum took time, so I don't think he was there day 1. I also don't know if he was ever that great in college. He's become so great in the NBA that I think it makes us assume he was that great in college
-Ingram took time. I also don't think he ever reached truly elite status
-Rivers, eh, clearly talented but that inefficient scoring was frustrating
-Parker - again, clearly talented, but the defense and fadeaway jumpers were too frustrating

For what it's worth, I agree with you. I am desperate for multi-year players. I just thought it was an interesting idea asking myself how many top recruits really blow us away with their performance. Just my thoughts here. Did I miss anyone of note?

[MarkD83]

Thanks for the correction regarding Grandison.

To address Teton Jack's concerns...I believe we all hope everyone returns for additional years at Duke. If that were the case here is the projected line-up (bold names were not on previous list).

Front Court:
Young (GS), Reeves (So), Mgbako (Fr), Stewart (Fr), Power (Fr)
Mitchell (So), Filipowski (So), Lively (So)

Back Court:
Blakes (Jr), Schutt (So), McCain (Fr), Foster (Fr)
Roach (Sr), Proctor (So), Whitehead (So)

There are only 13 scholarships available, so two players "must" move on. (I am assuming no scholarships to walk-ons which would increase the number of "must" move ons.)

We just need to get used to young teams. Even if upper class transfers are added, these players do not have experience at Duke with their new teammates, so the teams are still young.

[kshepinthehouse]

Thanks for the correction regarding Grandison.

To address Teton Jack's concerns...I believe we all hope everyone returns for additional years at Duke. If that were the case here is the projected line-up (bold names were not on previous list).

Front Court:
Young (GS), Reeves (So), Mgbako (Fr), Stewart (Fr), Power (Fr)
Mitchell (So), Filipowski (So), Lively (So)

Back Court:
Blakes (Jr), Schutt (So), McCain (Fr), Foster (Fr)
Roach (Sr), Proctor (So), Whitehead (So)

There are only 13 scholarships available, so two players "must" move on. (I am assuming no scholarships to walk-ons which would increase the number of "must" move ons.)

We just need to get used to young teams. Even if upper class transfers are added, these players do not have experience at Duke with their new teammates, so the teams are still young.

Yea a lot of questions about who is coming back. But it looks as if Duke has planned for a lot of them to leave.

[KKDL19]

I would not be surprised if Duke looks into some C type players and to a bigger SG type players in the 6-6 range.

I have no inside information and I am not cause rumors in any way. So players, if they actually do hit the portal, I'd like Duke to take a look at would be:
Braden Carlson-Utah
Graham Ike- Wyoming

[Southgate0809]

I'm a little worried that Duke will never be in the market for the best transfers. Guys like Theo John and Ryan Young are valuable, and I would be glad to continue getting players like that. Still, it seems like there's such a money market for transfers, and Duke won't be able to compete. We have a huge brand and can wave that in guys' faces so they know that they're likely to get endorsements once they're here, but I don't see anybody paying a transfer $1 million dollars (or whatever the amount was) like the Nerd Wallet guy did for Nijel Pack to go to Miami. I'll agree with Boeheim somewhat in that I don't like how NIL has affected transfers. That's not really making money off your NIL; it's making money by indirectly agreeing to transfer to a certain school. In essence, selling your commitment to the highest bidder.

I think we'll continue to dominate in our recruiting of high school players because they are looking for NIL money, but also the top talent is looking for a surefire path to the NBA. That part we can offer for sure.

[tommy]

I have problems with threads like this. Many of our colleagues automatically believe youngsters just out of high school are better players than the people we have on the previous year's lineup. They assume those wonderful high school highlight reels accurately reflect what will happen the following year. Consequently, the assumption is that the experienced need to get out of Dodge because they won't get off the bench.

I understand the thrill of anticipation; however, the only high school player that really performed as well as advertised was Zion. You can argue that Fillipowski has but he typically was mentioned as the third best player in the recruiting class. He needs some time to add strength so he can finish inside shots. Paulo didn't reach that level until near the end of his DUKE year.

He didn't? In his first game as a freshman, which was a win over Kentucky, Paolo went for 22 and 7, on 7 of 11 shooting. Later in November, he went for 21 and completely outplayed Chet Holmgren as we beat top-ranked Gonzaga. So yeah, I'd say he reached "that level" the moment he first stepped on the court at Duke.

[JasonEvans]

I'm a little worried that Duke will never be in the market for the best transfers. Guys like Theo John and Ryan Young are valuable, and I would be glad to continue getting players like that. Still, it seems like there's such a money market for transfers, and Duke won't be able to compete. We have a huge brand and can wave that in guys' faces so they know that they're likely to get endorsements once they're here, but I don't see anybody paying a transfer $1 million dollars (or whatever the amount was) like the Nerd Wallet guy did for Nijel Pack to go to Miami. I'll agree with Boeheim somewhat in that I don't like how NIL has affected transfers. That's not really making money off your NIL; it's making money by indirectly agreeing to transfer to a certain school. In essence, selling your commitment to the highest bidder.

The Miami booster paid $800k for 2 years ($400k/year) for Nijel Pack.

I assure you that Duke is not playing the pay-for-play NIL game that Miami, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and many other schools are playing. We explain to kids the was the school and the brand can help them monetize their time at Duke and beyond, but there ain't no rich alums handing money to players for little in return.

[CDu]

I'm a little worried that Duke will never be in the market for the best transfers. Guys like Theo John and Ryan Young are valuable, and I would be glad to continue getting players like that. Still, it seems like there's such a money market for transfers, and Duke won't be able to compete. We have a huge brand and can wave that in guys' faces so they know that they're likely to get endorsements once they're here, but I don't see anybody paying a transfer $1 million dollars (or whatever the amount was) like the Nerd Wallet guy did for Nijel Pack to go to Miami. I'll agree with Boeheim somewhat in that I don't like how NIL has affected transfers. That's not really making money off your NIL; it's making money by indirectly agreeing to transfer to a certain school. In essence, selling your commitment to the highest bidder.

I think we'll continue to dominate in our recruiting of high school players because they are looking for NIL money, but also the top talent is looking for a surefire path to the NBA. That part we can offer for sure.

Wake (and others) have proven you can find impact transfers without paying top NIL dollars. So while I agree that we won't be landing the Nigel Packs of the world, we can surely get good transfers IF we wanted to go that route. To this point, that hasn't been the direction Duke has preferred to take.

[tommy]

The Miami booster paid $800k for 2 years ($400k/year) for Nijel Pack.

I assure you that Duke is not playing the pay-for-play NIL game that Miami, Arkansas, Texas A&M, and many other schools are playing. We explain to kids the was the school and the brand can help them monetize their time at Duke and beyond, but there ain't no rich alums handing money to players for little in return.

No, but they're handing money to the collective(s) and the collectives' disbursements, while outside the control of the University, can have essentially the same impact.

[jv001]

Wake (and others) have proven you can find impact transfers without paying top NIL dollars. So while I agree that we won't be landing the Nigel Packs of the world, we can surely get good transfers IF we wanted to go that route.
To this point, that hasn't been the direction Duke has preferred to take.

Do you think Duke will be left behind if they don't begin to seek top transfer players? I could see that happening if our recruiting falls off. I think some our recruits came because of Coach K who had the reputation of sending the top recruits to the NBA.

GoDuke!

[Southgate0809]

Do you think Duke will be left behind if they don't begin to seek top transfer players? I could see that happening if our recruiting falls off. I think some our recruits came because of Coach K who had the reputation of sending the top recruits to the NBA.

GoDuke!

I don't know if I would say that we'll be left behind, but I think it's reasonable to say that Duke will rely on transfers in order to have older, experienced players to balance out the fact that a lot of our freshman will be OAD's. I'm worried that we're going to wind up with plenty of transfers that have less of an impact than we're hoping for. We've really only had 2 years worth of a sample size so far and just 1 for Coach Scheyer, so I'm hopeful that he and his assistants will have a good eye for transfers that can excel at Duke. It's seemed like the adjustment for a guy like Grandison has been tough. It can't be easy just joining a new team and being expected to average the exact same thing or better than what you did with your previous team, especially for role players like him that have to fit into a system as opposed to all-stars that create their own shots.

[CDu]

Do you think Duke will be left behind if they don't begin to seek top transfer players? I could see that happening if our recruiting falls off. I think some our recruits came because of Coach K who had the reputation of sending the top recruits to the NBA.

GoDuke!

If Scheyer wins, he will continue to do well in recruiting. If not, he will probably start losing those top recruits eventually. If that happens, I am sure we would start getting more aggressive in the transfer market.

I have no idea how Scheyer will do as a coach, so I really can’t say. But either way, I doubt we will get left behind.

[JasonEvans]

No, but they're handing money to the collective(s) and the collectives' disbursements, while outside the control of the University, can have essentially the same impact.

Sorry, are you talking about Duke? I am under the impression that Duke is not doing the collective thing as a way of funneling money to recruits or transfers. I know some very significant donors to the athletic program and they tell me Duke is not wading into those waters. Have you heard otherwise?

[Phredd3]

Sorry, are you talking about Duke? I am under the impression that Duke is not doing the collective thing as a way of funneling money to recruits or transfers. I know some very significant donors to the athletic program and they tell me Duke is not wading into those waters. Have you heard otherwise?

The letter of the NCAA rules still says that "funneling" is not allowed. Duke is keeping everything strictly according to the NCAA rules, from everything I've heard (which admittedly is not that much, but is totally consistent with everything I know about Duke).