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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Lively to stick around some 36 hours after he put on one of the most dominant defensive displays by a Duke big man EVER is certainly a hot take

    It only barely overshadows the fact that you labelled Sean Stewart and Mac as a SFs while Power and Mitchell are PFs. Yeah, I don't think so. Stewart is a PF/C. You won't see him on the wing for Duke hardly at all. The other three can play either F position, but if I had to categorize them, I would probably list Mac at PF and Mitchell/Power as SFs (especially considering that is where Mitchell has played 90% of his minutes this season).

    Anyway, the return or NBA/portal question is a silly exercise that has been done in dozens of other threads. Ain't nothing new being said here. I'm fairly sure very few of these guys have made up their mind. I think us trying to make the decision for them is even more presumptive.
    Actually in regards to your second to last sentence, the opposite seems to be true. It seems over the last few years our highly ranked freshmen have come to Duke with plans to leave no matter how the season goes.

  2. #22
    I would lay odds right now, that Black, Bacot, Love and Davis would return in that awful shade of blue before any of Dukeís freshmen come back to Duke next year. Sad, but it would not surprise me at all.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Lively to stick around some 36 hours after he put on one of the most dominant defensive displays by a Duke big man EVER is certainly a hot take

    It only barely overshadows the fact that you labelled Sean Stewart and Mac as a SFs while Power and Mitchell are PFs. Yeah, I don't think so. Stewart is a PF/C. You won't see him on the wing for Duke hardly at all. The other three can play either F position, but if I had to categorize them, I would probably list Mac at PF and Mitchell/Power as SFs (especially considering that is where Mitchell has played 90% of his minutes this season).

    Anyway, the return or NBA/portal question is a silly exercise that has been done in dozens of other threads. Ain't nothing new being said here. I'm fairly sure very few of these guys have made up their mind. I think us trying to make the decision for them is even more presumptive.
    I understand the want to look toward the future and what building blocks we may have, but it's just an exercise in futility, as so much can change, literally overnight (see: Lively II, Dereck).

    Categorizations are spot-on from Jason, from what I've seen. Stewart is definitely in the mold of a PF/C and will play most of his minutes in and around the paint. You arent gonna see him out on the perimeter. Mgbako is very versatile and can score at all 3 levels. Power is more of a shooter in the mold of a poor man's Gradey Dick (this categorization could change as he adapts to speed/strength of college bball, although I am unsure how much PT he may see next year), and Mitchell fits that slasher mold. You could conceivably see 3 of these guys on the court at once (I dont quite see all 4 at once).

    But again this is all in futility, as so much can and will change.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Music man55 View Post
    I would lay odds right now, that Black, Bacot, Love and Davis would return in that awful shade of blue before any of Dukeís freshmen come back to Duke next year. Sad, but it would not surprise me at all.
    Black is a grad student, like Nance, so I'm assuming his eligibility is finished after this year?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    I understand the want to look toward the future and what building blocks we may have, but it's just an exercise in futility, as so much can change, literally overnight (see: Lively II, Dereck).

    Categorizations are spot-on from Jason, from what I've seen. Stewart is definitely in the mold of a PF/C and will play most of his minutes in and around the paint. You arent gonna see him out on the perimeter. Mgbako is very versatile and can score at all 3 levels. Power is more of a shooter in the mold of a poor man's Gradey Dick (this categorization could change as he adapts to speed/strength of college bball, although I am unsure how much PT he may see next year), and Mitchell fits that slasher mold. You could conceivably see 3 of these guys on the court at once (I dont quite see all 4 at once).

    But again this is all in futility, as so much can and will change.
    Mitchell is a 4 who is being forced to play the 3.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Black is a grad student, like Nance, so I'm assuming his eligibility is finished after this year?



    Maybe Leaky's going to be a doctor
    Last edited by azzefkram; 02-06-2023 at 12:16 PM. Reason: I'm a maroon

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Black is a grad student, like Nance, so I'm assuming his eligibility is finished after this year?
    Correct: there is a 0% chance of Black returning and playing next year. So while it is VERY unlikely that both Mitchell and Proctor return (and basically 0% chance that Lively returns), it is technically still more likely that all of our key guys return than it is that all of their key guys return.

    I would not, however, bet against the idea of Davis, Love, and Bacot returning.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Correct: there is a 0% chance of Black returning and playing next year. So while it is VERY unlikely that both Mitchell and Proctor return (and basically 0% chance that Lively returns), it is technically still more likely that all of our key guys return than it is that all of their key guys return.

    I would not, however, bet against the idea of Davis, Love, and Bacot returning.
    Love is a true enigma to me. If I had to choose one of those 3 with the most NBA potential (and its pushing it), it would be Love. He's got good size for a PG, albeit his perimeter shot is terrible. But he drives the ball pretty well.

    This year, Love just looks so disinterested when I see him play. And maybe that's just his face, I dont know. If I had to guess right at this point in time, I'm going to guess that Love and Bacot are both gone next season, one way or another. I dont know what RJ Davis would do other than return, his size is just not ideal.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Love is a true enigma to me. If I had to choose one of those 3 with the most NBA potential (and its pushing it), it would be Love. He's got good size for a PG, albeit his perimeter shot is terrible. But he drives the ball pretty well.

    This year, Love just looks so disinterested when I see him play. And maybe that's just his face, I dont know. If I had to guess right at this point in time, I'm going to guess that Love and Bacot are both gone next season, one way or another. I dont know what RJ Davis would do other than return, his size is just not ideal.
    I could not name you a more inconsistent player. Love would single-handedly win an NBA team 1-2 games a year. And he would single-handedly lose an NBA team 15-20 games a year. He has the confidence of Curry and the consistency of Cam Reddish. That's not a good combination.

    Davis is too small for the NBA. Bacot is too one-dimensional. Love is too inconsistent.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I could not name you a more inconsistent player. Love would single-handedly win an NBA team 1-2 games a year. And he would single-handedly lose an NBA team 15-20 games a year. He has the confidence of Curry and the consistency of Cam Reddish. That's not a good combination.

    Davis is too small for the NBA. Bacot is too one-dimensional. Love is too inconsistent.
    I really thought Love may blow up to a NPOY candidate this year. Instead he's regressed. Boy was I wrong.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    I really thought Love may blow up to a NPOY candidate this year. Instead he's regressed. Boy was I wrong.
    You gotta stop watching the Duke Final Four game...
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Love is a true enigma to me. If I had to choose one of those 3 with the most NBA potential (and its pushing it), it would be Love. He's got good size for a PG, albeit his perimeter shot is terrible. But he drives the ball pretty well.

    This year, Love just looks so disinterested when I see him play. And maybe that's just his face, I dont know. If I had to guess right at this point in time, I'm going to guess that Love and Bacot are both gone next season, one way or another. I dont know what RJ Davis would do other than return, his size is just not ideal.
    If Love had Davis' shooting, he'd already be in the NBA. His problem is in part that he can make any shot he takes, so he takes any shot he can. When he's hot, they go in and he's a worldbeater. But they are low-percentage shots, and he winds up making a low percentage of them on average.

    If he could make better decisions, his size and athleticism would have him in the NBA already. But he just has never learned to make good decisions with his shot selection.

    But yeah, he definitely has the most NBA potential of the 3, as Davis is too small and Bacot isn't skilled or athletic enough.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Black is a grad student, like Nance, so I'm assuming his eligibility is finished after this year?
    Yes, but word is they have just signed Bleaky Lack, who plays exactly the same position, is an excellent defender, and canít shoot. He looks a lot like Leaky Black, who is definitely a completely different person, but has a goatee.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Yes, but word is they have just signed Bleaky Lack, who plays exactly the same position, is an excellent defender, and canít shoot. He looks a lot like Leaky Black, who is definitely a completely different person, but has a goatee.
    UVa just signed a player named Cihei Klark. Projected to be their starter from 2023-28.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Flip made a tentative comment about going pro, but it was 6 months before he came to Duke (ie, back when he was seen as Duke's 3rd best recruit, maybe). The other guys haven't said anything publicly. None of them has gotten official feedback from the NBA Combine about where they might be drafted, and none has gotten the "final word" from their unofficial sources. It's unlikely that any of them has talked to the coaches about what their role might be in 2023-24, figured out who exactly is going to be on the Duke team, become aware of their personal visibility post-NCAA tournament, or gotten an idea about what they might get from NIL next season. So we can't really have much of an idea about a big, binary decision that most of them haven't yet made.

    And even disregarding all of that, if tempted to predict what ten teenagers decide to do in a few months, you could instead free associate to this:

    inkblot-1_wide-4721996e4c8fb2aaa203cbe26968c64b742ebaa9.jpg

    And if you're confident about your decisions, I've got a little something to sell you:

    brooklyn-bridge-photo-julienne-schaer-nyc-and-company-003-2__large.jpg (photo by Julienne Schaer)

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    Flip made a comment about going pro, but it was 6 months before he came to Duke. The other guys haven't said anything publicly. None of them has gotten official feedback from the NBA Combine about where they might be drafted, and none has gotten the "final word" from their unofficial sources. It's unlikely that any of them has talked to the coaches about what their role might be in 2023-24, figured out who exactly is going to be on the Duke team, or gotten an idea about what they might get from NIL. So we can't really have much of an idea about a big, binary decision that most of them haven't yet made.

    And even disregarding all of that, if tempted to predict what ten teenagers decide to do in a few months, you could instead free associate to this:

    inkblot-1_wide-4721996e4c8fb2aaa203cbe26968c64b742ebaa9.jpg

    And if you're confident about your decisions, I've got a little something to sell you:

    brooklyn-bridge-photo-julienne-schaer-nyc-and-company-003-2__large.jpg (photo by Julienne Schaer)
    There are likely at least a few who made their decision before they set foot on campus. Right?

  17. #37
    I think it is premature to think who is leaving and staying.

    Lively & White are definite 1st rounders and I would suspect they would opt to leave and Duke would support them in that decisions.

    Flip, before the season, said he was coming back for his Soph season, but he is also a likely 1st rounder thus, I think there will be some discussion and it will ultimately be his decision, but I think Duke would support him if he declared to enter the draft.

    Proctor, IMHO, will leave to play professionally somewhere either the NBA or overseas, although he too said before the season he wanted to play with Foster & McCain

    Mitchell, I think will wait to see how the rest of the season and post season play out. So I could see it being 50/50, but I tend to think he is a strong lean to leave.

    Roach, I may be mistaken, but I do recall prior to the season, that when the staff talked to him about returning that there was some something motioned about this being his last season. However, I could see he returning and mentoring the young guards.

    Young, this is the most puzzling one to me. He could return for his 5th year, but by the end of the academic year will will have earned his masters degree. I would like to see him back bc he could add to next year and help the likes of Reeves and Stewart. Also, he he leaves the Duke from court would have no experience or depth.

  18. #38
    Join Date
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    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    There are likely at least a few who made their decision before they set foot on campus. Right?
    Right. I suspect most lean one way or the other, and, depending how hard that lean is, the outcome of their season may have some barring on what they end up doing. But, sometimes it doesn't. See Steward, DJ.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    If Love had Davis' shooting, he'd already be in the NBA. His problem is in part that he can make any shot he takes, so he takes any shot he can. When he's hot, they go in and he's a worldbeater. But they are low-percentage shots, and he winds up making a low percentage of them on average.

    If he could make better decisions, his size and athleticism would have him in the NBA already. But he just has never learned to make good decisions with his shot selection.

    But yeah, he definitely has the most NBA potential of the 3, as Davis is too small and Bacot isn't skilled or athletic enough.
    When Love drilled an early 3 against us Saturday night, I smiled on the inside and said nothing out loud- but I had a good feeling that would be his false confidence shot of the night. Since it came so early, there was a chance it would entice him to fire up more and more bad shots throughout the game, eventually becoming a huge negative for carolina's offense. And he did not disappoint. He's so predictable at this point.

  20. #40
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    To my highly-unsophisticated eye, Proctor has a smooth outside shot, as does Lively.

    In contrast, it seems to me that Mark Mitchell could use an off season filled with a whole lot of Chip Engelland (who's been doing his thing for OKC this year after 17 years in San Antonio).

    In regard to actual shooting success, however, Mitchell (39%) is better than Procter (26%) and Lively (12%) put together, though that may not exactly be how statistics work...

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