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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    While it was not officially allowed until June 30, 2021, it was pretty clear that NIL was going to be available when Hurt made his decision official. The Supreme Court had already ruled, and several states had adopted laws.

    And the one-time free transfer rule was adopted in April 2021, so that was also in play when Hurt made his decision.

    So I don't think that those rules would change his decision.
    I hate that 99% of the time, it's all about getting paid as much as possible nowadays. Nevermind playing the biggest role you can on a team vying for a championship. As long as you get an NBA contract, even if you end up sitting on the bench for 1-2 years, it's worth it. That appears to be the prevailing mind set.

    Imagine Trevor Keels on this Duke team. It would be SUCH a different (and likely better) team. Granted, we probably don't get Proctor until next season if that happened, but even then, Proctor would probably be a better player next season being a year older.

    Even guys who truly want to come back and play a 30+ minute role (as I believe Keels did) are strongly advised to go pro. I hate it.

    And now I'm becoming the "back in my day" old guy that I used to ridicule on this message board.
    Last edited by kAzE; 02-07-2023 at 06:46 PM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    And now I'm becoming the "back in my day" old guy that I used to ridicule on this message board.
    Amazing how time passing does that to perspective.

  3. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I hate that 99% of the time, it's all about getting paid as much as possible nowadays. Nevermind playing the biggest role you can on a team vying for a championship. As long as you get an NBA contract, even if you end up sitting on the bench for 1-2 years, it's worth it. That appears to be the prevailing mind set.

    Imagine Trevor Keels on this Duke team. It would be SUCH a different (and likely better) team. Granted, we probably don't get Proctor until next season if that happened, but even then, Proctor would probably be a better player next season being a year older.

    Even guys who truly want to come back and play a 30+ minute role (as I believe Keels did) are strongly advised to go pro. I hate it.

    And now I'm becoming the "back in my day" old guy that I used to ridicule on this message board.
    Yep. Keels on this year’s team, or Hurt on last year’s team (obviously the presence of Banchero and Williams made that unrealistic, but imagine having Hurt as the floor spacer for either of those guys, playing 20-25 mpg), or Trent on the 2019 team would have been huge. Alas…

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yep. Keels on this year’s team, or Hurt on last year’s team (obviously the presence of Banchero and Williams made that unrealistic, but imagine having Hurt as the floor spacer for either of those guys, playing 20-25 mpg), or Trent on the 2019 team would have been huge. Alas…
    We had Hurt on last year’s team. His name was AJ Griffin. Awesome shooting, terrible defense.

    Hurt woulda helped, but I’m not sure how much. Given Griffin and reg season Paolo, you couldn’t really afford to have another bad defender.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    We had Hurt on last year’s team. His name as AJ Griffin. Awesome shooting, terrible defense.

    Hurt woulda helped, but I’m not sure how much. Given Griffin and reg season Paolo, you couldn’t really afford to have another bad defender.
    No, Griffin was not nearly as good as Hurt. They are not the same thing. Not even close. Similar style, but Hurt was WAY better.

    Also, having two elite shooting options would be a plus. When Griffin had a clunker it wouldn’t sabotage our offense, because we could rely more on Hurt.

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    No, Griffin was not nearly as good as Hurt. They are not the same thing. Not even close. Similar style, but Hurt was WAY better.

    Also, having two elite shooting options would be a plus. When Griffin had a clunker it wouldn’t sabotage our offense, because we could rely more on Hurt.
    Duke had the #1 offense last year. #40-something defense. don’t think offense or shooting was our problem.

    I’m in the camp that didn’t miss Hurt or daydream about his fit with last year’s team.

    Keels this year? Much different story. His shooting would have been a god send.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #107
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Duke had the #1 offense last year. #40-something defense. don’t think offense or shooting was our problem.

    I’m in the camp that didn’t miss Hurt or daydream about his fit with last year’s team.

    Keels this year? Much different story. His shooting would have been a god send.
    Offense can always be better. I would LOVE to have had Hurt on last year’s team.

    Also, Keels shot just 31.2% from 3 last year. That would actually bring our percentage down if he repeated it.

    By comp, Proctor has shot 34.3% over the last 16 games.
    Last edited by CDu; 02-07-2023 at 07:35 PM.

  8. #108
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    This thread

    Anybody feel that posts denigrating the ability of our current players is a bit unseemly?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Keels this year? Much different story. His shooting would have been a god send.
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Also, Keels shot just 31.2% from 3 last year. That would actually bring our percentage down if he repeated it.

    By comp, Proctor has shot 34.3% over the last 16 games.
    Hey FDD! Didn’t you say on page one that Proctor wasn’t a good 3 pt shooter!?!? Can’t have that cake and eat it too!

  10. #110
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    Hey FDD! Didn’t you say on page one that Proctor wasn’t a good 3 pt shooter!?!? Can’t have that cake and eat it too!
    Ha! Touché.

    Keels was a very good shooter in HS and hopeful he’d take a Kennard-like leap in his sophomore year. In the G League with an NBA 3pt distance, he’s shooting 37.8%.

    I’m warming up to Proctor, as long as he keeps his 3pt attempts under control.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  11. #111
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Ha! Touché.

    Keels was a very good shooter in HS and hopeful he’d take a Kennard-like leap in his sophomore year. In the G League with an NBA 3pt distance, he’s shooting 37.8%.

    I’m warming up to Proctor, as long as he keeps his 3pt attempts under control.
    Even aside from his shooting, Keels had a level of physicality and ability to finish inside that our guards haven't been able to replicate this season consistently. He shot 52.2% on his 2 point field goals last season. Guys like that make the defense play us differently, and opens opportunities for teammates.

    He also had over a 2:1 A:TO ratio as a freshman. And although he is more of a scorer than playmaker, and doesn't have the same vision and creativity that Proctor has with his passing, I have no doubt he would have been a pretty good ball handler for us. I imagine he would be something like a better shooting, upgraded version of what Roach is doing offensively, and an absolute bulldog who can switch 1-4 on defense.
    Last edited by kAzE; 02-07-2023 at 08:40 PM.

  12. #112
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Even aside from his shooting, Keels had a level of physicality and ability to finish inside that our guards haven't been able to replicate this season consistently. He shot 52.2% on his 2 point field goals last season. Guys like that make the defense play us differently, and opens opportunities for teammates.

    He also had over a 2:1 A:TO ratio as a freshman. And although he is more of a scorer than playmaker, and doesn't have the same vision and creativity that Proctor has with his passing, I have no doubt he would have been a pretty good ball handler for us. I imagine he would be something like a better shooting, upgraded version of what Roach is doing offensively, and an absolute bulldog who can switch 1-4 on defense.
    Oh I absolutely do wish we had Keels. As you said, his physicality and ability to protect the ball (clearly a bugaboo for both current guards at times) and his ability to drive to the basket would be a huge plus.

    And on the off-chance we got both him and Proctor, it would give us the ballhandling and lineup versatility that we had hoped Whitehead would provide.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Anybody feel that posts denigrating the ability of our current players is a bit unseemly?
    If I had on my Groucho Marx fake nose and glasses, I'd say: "Seemingly they are unseemly."

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I think he's shown enough potential on his shooting stroke (particularly from the foul line), that teams are going to view him as a guy will develop into a plus shooter with time. And that's all it takes for a team to invest these days (especially a 2nd round pick). For better or for worse, past performance isn't nearly as important as future potential these days.

    All you need to do is look at Luke Kennard's freshman year. Now he's a top 5 shooter in the NBA.

    I'm not saying Proctor will be the same, but the potential is what NBA teams care about, and he's shown some good stuff in other areas already that make him just as intriguing, if not more so, than a guy like Kennard.

    All that said, I really really really hope he chooses to return to Duke. But I'm on the pessimistic side for that.
    I think Proctor could have a monster sophomore year. He’s talented but so young. I think a lot of those shots around the rim start falling as well as from distance. He’s played minor league pro ball with grown men and he’ll have a had year Duke. I know that I would prefer to come back and lead Duke vs grinding out a year in the G league but who knows what he’s thinking. Sure he can get better there as well as at a Duke but Duke has to be way more fun. I could say the same about Flip having a monster sophomore year and getting way better. Especially sinking of those chippies at the rim. But Flip will be a first rounder and he’s tough as nails. I think he’ll get “knocked back” but figure it out. I think Proctor needs to take another minute before he makes the jump. He’ll make the Tre and Hurt sophomore leap and be much more ready to prove his worth in the league.

  15. #115
    As much anyone would like Proctor back at Duke for a Soph year he is 19 years old. I do not think it was his intention to enroll early and to return, but to enroll early and be eligible for the draft. Just my opinion.

  16. #116
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Also, Keels shot just 31.2% from 3 last year. That would actually bring our percentage down if he repeated it.

    By comp, Proctor has shot 34.3% over the last 16 games.
    Keels is hitting 38% of his 3s this year in the G-League where the 3-point line is about a foot and a half further back and where the defenders are considerably better than what you see in college. I think he would have been pretty effective had he stuck around for another year. Would have expected him to average 16+ ppg.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Keels is hitting 38% of his 3s this year in the G-League where the 3-point line is about a foot and a half further back and where the defenders are considerably better than what you see in college. I think he would have been pretty effective had he stuck around for another year. Would have expected him to average 16+ ppg.
    Did the Knicks work with him in the off-season? Did he change his shooting mechanics? Keels had a very flat shot at Duke. This doesn't seem like a Luke Kennard situation in which his mechanics were sound and he just needed to adjust to the speed of the game. It's almost impossible to say what would have happened if Keels had stuck around Duke.

    But beyond that, his effectiveness in a hypothetical second season at Duke would only matter if that effectiveness would have propelled him into the first round. His measurables were average-to-below-average and his agility drill numbers were below-average-to-poor. That stuff wasn't going to change. So it's very possible that nothing short of shooting 44% on threes (like Kennard did his sophomore season) could have gotten him into the first round. We can argue that until the proverbial cows come home, but there's just no way to know for sure.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Did the Knicks work with him in the off-season? Did he change his shooting mechanics? Keels had a very flat shot at Duke. This doesn't seem like a Luke Kennard situation in which his mechanics were sound and he just needed to adjust to the speed of the game. It's almost impossible to say what would have happened if Keels had stuck around Duke.

    But beyond that, his effectiveness in a hypothetical second season at Duke would only matter if that effectiveness would have propelled him into the first round. His measurables were average-to-below-average and his agility drill numbers were below-average-to-poor. That stuff wasn't going to change. So it's very possible that nothing short of shooting 44% on threes (like Kennard did his sophomore season) could have gotten him into the first round. We can argue that until the proverbial cows come home, but there's just no way to know for sure.
    NBA coaching, nba schedule, no classes, potentially less social distractions, now it’s basically a job, there are many reasons why a player might get better at shooting in the NBA vs college.

  19. #119
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    No one is posting possible line ups.
    No crystal ball
    Just to steer posts on speculation.
    Reeves Center
    Filipowski Power Forward
    Mgbako Small forward
    McCain Shooting Guard
    Proctor Point Guard

    Bench
    Stewart Power Forward -Center
    Power P-S Forward
    Mitchell P-S Forward
    Foster Point Guard
    Schutt Shooting Guard
    Blakes Defensive specialist

    just speculation.
    Roach moves on
    Lively and Whitehead try the draft or G League.

  20. #120
    Flip is almost certainly gone. Late lottery pick.

    Mitchell and Proctor are likely gone. Don’t count on them staying.

    Really hoping Ryan Young is back for another year. And could a great NIL package keep senior captain Roach around for one more year?

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