MBB: Duke 63, Cheaters 57 Post-Game Thread

[missfinch]

I think the point being made was that MANY DBR posters were complaining that Scheyer (the coach) DIDN'T complain about the refs after the VT game. Most notably the non-flagrant late in the game.

I think there’s a big difference in complaining that a coach didn’t make a bigger deal of a no-call on contact that left his player dry heaving on the bench than a head coach making multiple “observations” that his team didn’t shoot nearly as many free throws as they expected to.

[3rd Dukie]

Sort of with you until the Bilas part...he was operating a new level of disgust tonight.

Lots of examples but the one that struck a chord (for whatever reason) was the fawning of Jalen Washington...a 4 star top 40 freshman who has done very little to date all of the sudden gets the "he's going to a very very special player" comment from Bilas.

Just seemed very weird and out of place from Bilas...almost like he was throwing a bone at Hubert's relative lack of recruiting success.

I agree. The best thing to be said about Bilas is that he is not Vitale.

[91devil]

great comments on Lively on this thread...but changing gears...don't think it has been mentioned but in a number of Roach replays and photos from last night...you see a determined and almost "up yours" facial expressions on Jeremy when looking at the Carolina bench...think he felt his team and him were disrespected and he was bound and determined to put a stop to it...saw it early on...its what you want in your captain and something he and team can feed off...new team and new season started last night...couldn't be more proud of our boys...there comes a point in every season where we hope we get an inflection point and we get to a next important level...imo we got that last night!!!!!

Jeremy had a running dialogue all night with two UNC fans between the UNC bench and near the scorer’s table. One male and one female. I’m the first half, every time down the court they were jawing at each other. I remember thinking (hoping) it would stop lest Jeremy become too distracted. Perhaps it spurred him to have a better game.

[DukieInKansas]

Jon has been working with the team to play tough defense without fouling. So why didn’t Howlin’ Hubert think of that? I guess he thought that Carolina was owed extra free throws.

https://www.fayobserver.com/story/sp...e/69848294007/

When he asked the reporter to answer the question about why they only had 3 FT attempts, I answered foe him with a question- "Your check didn't clear?" 😁

[Tooold]

Flip was following Love on a drive and went up to contest the shot, but his upperbody collided with Lively causing him to fall flat on his tail bone/back. But the stoppage was due to pain in his non-shooting elbow, apparently.

I was referring to the hard fall Flip took away from the basket in the first half. I think it was due to contact with Nance, but they didn’t show the replay in cameron, and no foul was called.

I think you are referring to the time in the second half when Flip and Lively collided and there was a stoppage of play (and a few scary minutes).

He took a lot of hits and had a few hard falls last night. I think another year and a few more pounds of muscle would really benefit him (and Duke!)

[CameronDuke]

EDD76F1B-FB62-4F61-AE33-2191FD506413.jpg

[Duke76]

Jeremy had a running dialogue all night with two UNC fans between the UNC bench and near the scorer’s table. One male and one female. I’m the first half, every time down the court they were jawing at each other. I remember thinking (hoping) it would stop lest Jeremy become too distracted. Perhaps it spurred him to have a better game.

good to know...he had that twinkle in his eye...maybe it was Cole Anthony and another former player. Knew something was up. Boy, did he back his eyes up!

[kako]

That said, I do want him (Whitehead) back of course. Because this team’s ceiling probably requires him making an impact beyond just being a streaky 3pt shooter. We have shown we can be good without him, but to make that next step we could really use him becoming more of a positive impact player.

Agreed. At the very least, I think we need him to take minutes. The starters can't all play 30+ minutes every game, especially come the tournaments. He has a high ceiling, we have seen the clues, just not strung together enough yet. I don't think Duke is a legit contender for the ACC championship (not to mention the national championship) unless it gets everything out of everyone on the team, which includes Whitehead. Even if Whitehead achieved a Grayson Allen-like freshman year pivot at the end of the season, it could do wonders. So as long as he's giving it all in practice (which I leave up to the very capable staff), I'd like to see him on the floor trying to find his game groove.

9F

[Duke76]

Roach says that on the final play to put us up 4 he knew UNC would mess up the defensive rotation because they hadn’t been communicating all night. Big ouchie for Hubert.

link

Love that quote, you know on the lack of fouls cry from Hubie, other than the fact, not perception that the Heels were not driving to the basket with 27 3s taken, in general the refs let the players play in the Duke Carolina games. They are always pretty clean games, imo. Don't know whether that observation can be backed up, but would bet so notwithstanding the blood bath with Hansbrough and Gerald. To me, the games go faster than others...like last night the first foul was called at 15 min. mark i think...

[clinresga]

Many of these things haven’t proven to be true and freshman, injured or not we need him to produce. Along with the low offensive rating, his defensive rating isn’t very good and his rebounding rate is basically second worst on the team to Jeremy Roach. For a guy that largely only contributes to scoring, he isn’t an efficient scorer. We need more production out of him if he’s going to get the lion’s share of the minutes moving forward. Oh, by the way, I haven’t seen him attack the basket very well either. He seems to turn it over a lot when he tries. I’d love for him to take over the 3 position and reach his potential, however, I wouldn’t want it to hurt what we have going right now with this win streak. It’s going to be tricky I believe.

I think you and I actually agree--potential and performance to date are very different metrics and I would never argue that the latter has been anywhere near expectations. But I'm clearly in the camp that believes that getting him substantial playing time as soon as possible may pay off when tourney time arrives. Scheyer's faith in playing Lively even in the "foul a minute" phase clearly was part of why Dereck grew. Hopefully the same will be true if Dariq returns from injury soon. I'd take the temporary disruption in chemistry now, in the regular season, in hopes that Dariq would have his lightbulb moment in time for post-season play. That way we could avoid a repeat of the Kyrie experience, when that disruption happened during tournament time.

[DrChainsaw]

We saw two students escorted out (although one was from the grad section). I just can't imagine putting in all that time in a tent, and then doing something moronic during the game that causes you to miss the joy of being there.

Talk about a true walk of shame.

I remember when I had my first beer...

[DukieInBrasil]

I think you and I actually agree--potential and performance to date are very different metrics and I would never argue that the latter has been anywhere near expectations. But I'm clearly in the camp that believes that getting him substantial playing time as soon as possible may pay off when tourney time arrives. Scheyer's faith in playing Lively even in the "foul a minute" phase clearly was part of why Dereck grew. Hopefully the same will be true if Dariq returns from injury soon. I'd take the temporary disruption in chemistry now, in the regular season, in hopes that Dariq would have his lightbulb moment in time for post-season play. That way we could avoid a repeat of the Kyrie experience, when that disruption happened during tournament time.

Jon played Lively pretty much as many minutes as his foul situation allowed, and in some games he was not in any danger of foul trouble and still didn't max out his minutes. Even so, he removed Dereck from the starting lineup for a while due to ineffective play. He played a lot more minutes last night b/c he was exceptionally effective and not in any foul trouble. I'm not sure what "faith in playing Lively" you're referring to.

[billy]

I was referring to the hard fall Flip took away from the basket in the first half. I think it was due to contact with Nance, but they didn’t show the replay in cameron, and no foul was called.

I think you are referring to the time in the second half when Flip and Lively collided and there was a stoppage of play (and a few scary minutes).

He took a lot of hits and had a few hard falls last night. I think another year and a few more pounds of muscle would really benefit him (and Duke!)

I wondered about that play too. I just looked at the replay and it occurred around 1:40 left in the first half. He was moving without the ball, and while Nance was near him, as best I can see Flip tripped over Black's foot (Black had his back to Flip on the play) - appeared to be incidental but he did take a hard fall.

[Phredd3]

2b) I suspect Hubert is more accustomed to drawing contact (i.e. teaching the offensive ‘lean-in’) when the defender doesn’t have the height to block the shot. But the block or deflection changes the rule…..in another school’s forum, it was pointed out that many refs view contact arising after a clean block as simply incidental resulting from the inertia of the natural flow of a body in motion and not a foul.

If you were paying close attention during the game, you saw this explicitly after the Filipowski block/no call on Nance. Davis was incensed and Bilas was saying that it was "unquestionably" a foul, but when you saw the ref talking to Hubris after, you could see him explaining that Flip got the ball first, and that contact after that was incidental. Oddly, Davis seemed mollified by that explanation. Bilas, less so.

[Southgate0809]

If you were paying close attention during the game, you saw this explicitly after the Filipowski block/no call on Nance. Davis was incensed and Bilas was saying that it was "unquestionably" a foul, but when you saw the ref talking to Hubris after, you could see him explaining that Flip got the ball first, and that contact after that was incidental. Oddly, Davis seemed mollified by that explanation. Bilas, less so.

In person, I thought I had seen Proctor jawing at Hubert right before Hubert lost it but I couldn't really tell what was going on. People watching on TV told me Hubert was upset about a perceived missed foul on Flip. Did anyone see that moment with Proctor?

[CameronDuke]

A72842C4-EFDC-4505-ABB5-5E324D58AAFE.jpg

[Music man55]

In person, I thought I had seen Proctor jawing at Hubert right before Hubert lost it but I couldn't really tell what was going on. People watching on TV told me Hubert was upset about a perceived missed foul on Flip. Did anyone see that moment with Proctor?

Yes. I noticed Proctor pointing and saying something to Hubie it looked like. I even pointed it out to my wife.

[jv001]

About those foul calls the cheats didn't get; maybe the reason the cheats had received those foul calls against their prior opponents was because the refs missed those calls in the first place. What a wimpy cheat. I don't remember Coach K or Jon this season, complaining about free throw discrepancy after a game. I know Coach K worked the officials during the game but that's what a coach is supposed to do. I guess Davis learned it from Deano.

GoDuke!

[Southgate0809]

About those foul calls the cheats didn't get; maybe the reason the cheats had received those foul calls against their prior opponents was because the refs missed those calls in the first place. What a wimpy cheat. I don't remember Coach K or Jon this season, complaining about free throw discrepancy after a game. I know Coach K worked the officials during the game but that's what a coach is supposed to do. I guess Davis learned it from Deano.

GoDuke!

I don't either. Coach K could be terribly snarky, especially after a question he didn't think was intelligent enough, but I don't remember blaming the refs being a thing.

[jv001]

I don't either. Coach K could be terribly snarky, especially after a question he didn't think was intelligent enough, but I don't remember blaming the refs being a thing.

I do remember Coach K long ago saying Dean Smith got special treatment. I can't remember if it was about the ACC refs or the ACC itself. Either one was true.

GoDuke!