Kara Lawson furious at FSU/ACC after men's ball used in Duke-FSU game

[chrishoke]

Has there been any statement from FSU?

[crimsondevil]

Here is another view of the ELITE, but I don't know which half. Someone here? in the past noted that the ball is provided by the school, and their sponsor, hence the FSU logo on the Nike ball. Guessing there is not an ACC ball, except maybe at the tournament?
Also, only one first half still on the FSU AD /Twitter feed, and no cinematic videos since their NCSU Game.

https://goduke.com/galleries/womens-...29/1825/175852
Perhaps there is a solid black, and a gold trim version of the ELITE?

FWIW, these look to me like possibly different balls. I am looking at the writing/logo on the panel next to the valve stem - the shiny portion looks different (could be the camera angle, tho'), and more drastically, is the text oriented differently? The visible portion of both looks like a stylized "EL" (for "elite"?) but opposite with respect to the valve stem. It would help if I knew what the balls were supposed to look like.

Upon further review of what the Nike Elite basketball looks like (see pic), the logo is stylized so that it's symmetric except for the "championship" bit, which is harder to pick out. The lighting in those original pics may also be affecting how the gold edging and lettering stands out, so I'm not confident in saying they are different. There are a number of different shots of the ball(s) in the link from FUBAR - where is the "28.5" supposed to be?

elite-championship-8p-basketball-hjNbR5.jpg

[Bluedog]

Upon further review of what the Nike Elite basketball looks like (see pic), the logo is stylized so that it's symmetric except for the "championship" bit, which is harder to pick out. The lighting in those original pics may also be affecting how the gold edging and lettering stands out, so I'm not confident in saying they are different. There are a number of different shots of the ball(s) in the link from FUBAR - where is the "28.5" supposed to be?

elite-championship-8p-basketball-hjNbR5.jpg

Below is an example that shows it on the bottom. Do the women's NCAA balls have something similar? I have no idea.
https://static.nike.com/a/images/t_P...all-TxPnb5.png

Aha! Ebay shows it (Game ball from Duke says "mid size 28.5"):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204098679854

It's very small, would be impossible to see with normal TV/camera, but would be obvious if someone looked at it in person (if that's the case at FSU).

[LasVegas]

Below is an example that shows it on the bottom. Do the women's NCAA balls have something similar? I have no idea.
https://static.nike.com/a/images/t_P...all-TxPnb5.png

Aha! Ebay shows it (Game ball from Duke says "mid size 28.5"):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204098679854

That ball went through an intense game!

[mkirsh]

Upon further review of what the Nike Elite basketball looks like (see pic), the logo is stylized so that it's symmetric except for the "championship" bit, which is harder to pick out. The lighting in those original pics may also be affecting how the gold edging and lettering stands out, so I'm not confident in saying they are different. There are a number of different shots of the ball(s) in the link from FUBAR - where is the "28.5" supposed to be?

elite-championship-8p-basketball-hjNbR5.jpg

Amazon has images of the men's elite championship ball and where the size markings are, but not sure if the team issue balls that have the school's logo work the same way.

91FZ0UKq2oL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[CameronBornAndBred]

That ball went through an intense game!

That one was more likely to be used during a scrimmage with the football players.

[crimsondevil]

Amazon has images of the men's elite championship ball and where the size markings are, but not sure if the team issue balls that have the school's logo work the same way.

91FZ0UKq2oL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

In the images that grad_devil posted, it's not clear that there's any writing next to the valve stem, although maybe?
In the 4th image from the goduke.com link that FUBAR included, there is fairly obvious writing in what should be the same panel, but not like the Amazon image (and honestly, not like grad_devil's images either).

Screen Shot 2023-02-03 at 3.49.26 PM.jpg

[FUBARDoorBuster]

Amazon has images of the men's elite championship ball and where the size markings are, but not sure if the team issue balls that have the school's logo work the same way.

91FZ0UKq2oL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

This has been interesting. The best photo on the Duke site has moved to archives, a higher resolution of Oliver shooting at the lead of the video highlights. I put the new link below. It is one of the 10 photos in the Game photos on GoDuke. The photo I referenced earlier with our center shooting, in the Go Duke photos, does not reflect the gold frame, but FSU has a picture on Twitter referring the first half that looks to have the ELITE in gold frame. Also there are photos at the Tallahassee Democrat but nothing specific

https://goduke.com/watch/?Archive=12502&type=Archive
https://twitter.com/fsuwbb/status/16...469504/photo/1

Good review on the Chronicle but no new photos. They didn't send a photographer.
I tried. Thanks for the reference photos.

[JetpackJesus]

"No evidence to support the claim" is a bit weasel-ly in the wording, as opposed to saying "We have both balls, and they are approved for women's games."

This is, "The ruling on the field stands." vs. "The ruling on the field is confirmed."

Also, I think it's notable that the balls used in each half of the game were not among the things the ACC listed as being part of its "comprehensive" review.

If the ACC confirmed it wasn't a men's ball, then the ACC needs to fire the person writing these statements. If the ACC did not confirm it wasn't a men's ball, then the person writing these statements has earned that paycheck.

[dudog84]

Has there been any statement from FSU?

I think they're going to let the ACC do their covering up, I mean talking, for them.

For any lurking FSU fans, please understand that I am not saying there was anything nefarious here. More likely, as Kara noted, somebody screwing up and not owning it.

[dudog84]

This is, "The ruling on the field stands." vs. "The ruling on the field is confirmed."

Also, I think it's notable that the balls used in each half of the game were not among the things the ACC listed as being part of its "comprehensive" review.

If the ACC confirmed it wasn't a men's ball, then the ACC needs to fire the person writing these statements. If the ACC did not confirm it wasn't a men's ball, then the person writing these statements has earned that paycheck.

...the conference office was made aware of the allegation and immediately conducted a comprehensive review. This included discussion with all parties involved, including game officials, game administrators, table crew and both schools. Following the thorough and objective review process, there was no evidence found to support the claim.

Here's the main problem with the statement: They are saying everyone associated with Duke is lying. Duke's evidence (i.e. testimony) may have been inconclusive or unable to be supported as the ball/balls in question were irretrievable, but "no evidence" is a lie.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This has been interesting. The best photo on the Duke site has moved to archives, a higher resolution of Oliver shooting at the lead of the video highlights. I put the new link below. It is one of the 10 photos in the Game photos on GoDuke. The photo I referenced earlier with our center shooting, in the Go Duke photos, does not reflect the gold frame, but FSU has a picture on Twitter referring the first half that looks to have the ELITE in gold frame. Also there are photos at the Tallahassee Democrat but nothing specific

https://goduke.com/watch/?Archive=12502&type=Archive
https://twitter.com/fsuwbb/status/16...469504/photo/1

Good review on the Chronicle but no new photos. They didn't send a photographer.
I tried. Thanks for the reference photos.

If you look on FSU's Twitter thread back on game day, they do a good job of tweeting and giving the time of the photo taken. During the whole game, the logos are gold rimmed. That doesn't say much, though, since I'm assuming the same is true for the men's balls. (Cue Beavis & Butthead laughter)

[tommy]

Everything about this story is weird. I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything anyone else said, but:

1. Why didn't Coach Lawson raise this in the presser after the FSU game? Why did she wait however many days it was to bring it up after the Pitt game? She obviously had the information at the time of the FSU game. Why the delay?
2. The differences between the balls are pretty obvious. Not just the feel, but the size compared to one's hand. It couldn't be confused with an inflation issue. The players must have noticed it right after tipoff, or certainly in the first couple of minutes. Why, even as late as the first TV timeout, didn't Coach Lawson ask to see the ball, confirm it was wrong and bring it to the attention of the officials right then and there? Gesture if you need to, let everyone know this is a big deal and you want this looked at RIGHT NOW. Coach Lawson has been playing and coaching basketball with a women's ball her entire life. The moment she held the ball she would've known, and would've/should've said something right then and there to the refs.
3. Why didn't the FSU players or coaches say anything during the first half about the ball? If it was the wrong one, they would have noticed too.
4. Thankfully she made clear that FSU beat us in both halves, with both balls. Both teams played both halves with the same ball.

[uh_no]

2. The differences between the balls are pretty obvious. Not just the feel, but the size compared to one's hand. It couldn't be confused with an inflation issue. The players must have noticed it right after tipoff, or certainly in the first couple of minutes. Why, even as late as the first TV timeout, didn't Coach Lawson ask to see the ball, confirm it was wrong and bring it to the attention of the officials right then and there? Gesture if you need to, let everyone know this is a big deal and you want this looked at RIGHT NOW. Coach Lawson has been playing and coaching basketball with a women's ball her entire life. The moment she held the ball she would've known, and would've/should've said something right then and there to the refs.

This has been discussed quite in depth above. Given the wide variety of balls in the game in general, even conforming ones, it may be difficult to pinpoint the issue when not prompted with something such as "is this a men's or women's ball." Even moreso when it's game action. Further, players aren't going to come to the bench during a timeout and be like "yeah coach, we're playing poorly, but it's the balls fault!" It would be like the developer's equivalent "there must be a bug in the compiler."

[Southgate0809]

What do the shooting numbers look like for each team by each half? I would expect a lot of hairballs in the first half.

[dudog84]

1. Why didn't Coach Lawson raise this in the presser after the FSU game? Why did she wait however many days it was to bring it up after the Pitt game? She obviously had the information at the time of the FSU game. Why the delay?

Because the ACC hadn't called her a liar immediately after the FSU game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

What do the shooting numbers look like for each team by each half? I would expect a lot of hairballs in the first half.

Was detailed up thread and yes.

[LasVegas]

Because the ACC hadn't called her a liar immediately after the FSU game.

I don’t think this is true. Based on what I can see, the ACC statement came Friday after her comments at the post game presser on Thursday. So publicly, there was no statement calling her a liar until she called out the ACC/FSU/officials/etc.

Again, I really am not sure what she or Duke gained by going public with this complaint days after the game concluded.

[Ladeeeda]

I don’t think this is true. Based on what I can see, the ACC statement came Friday after her comments at the post game presser on Thursday. So publicly, there was no statement calling her a liar until she called out the ACC/FSU/officials/etc.

Again, I really am not sure what she or Duke gained by going public with this complaint days after the game concluded.

She went public because the ACC denied that there was a problem. They lied, so she put them on blast.

[dudog84]

I don’t think this is true. Based on what I can see, the ACC statement came Friday after her comments at the post game presser on Thursday. So publicly, there was no statement calling her a liar until she called out the ACC/FSU/officials/etc.

Again, I really am not sure what she or Duke gained by going public with this complaint days after the game concluded.

Yes the statement came out Friday, but if you watch her presser it's pretty obvious there were discussions going on and she was being dismissed. Don't even have to read between the lines here.

Not everything has to be about gain. It would be great if this country just got back to responsibility and accountability. In every sector.