Kara Lawson furious at FSU/ACC after men's ball used in Duke-FSU game

[CameronBornAndBred]

WOW!!!

Watching Coach Lawson's presser, and after questions, she said "There's one more thing I want to mention."
And she goes on to explain how in Tallahassee, our players came to her and said "There's something wrong with the ball."

Duke staff went and approached the scorer's table and learned they had played the entire first half with a men's ball. The table was not going to swap it out, but it was mandated by the ref. The second half was played with a women's ball.

She finished saying how at this level, it's mind boggling how such an error can occur. She also said that the conference would not allow her "to protest and appeal the game." She did NOT blame the scenario for our loss, but was pretty irate.

[DoubleBlue]

WOW!!!

Watching Coach Lawson's presser, and after questions, she said "There's one more thing I want to mention."
And she goes on to explain how in Tallahassee, our players came to her and said "There's something wrong with the ball."

Duke staff went and approached the scorer's table and learned they had played the entire first half with a men's ball. The table was not going to swap it out, but it was mandated by the ref. The second half was played with a women's ball.

She finished saying how at this level, it's mind boggling how such an error can occur. She also said that the conference would not allow her "to protest and appeal the game." She did NOT blame the scenario for our loss, but was pretty irate.

If you can't tell the diiference between a men's ball and a women's ball you've never played basketball.
Of course it would be the same for both teams, so why wouldn't FSU also complain? How can the refs not notice?
If true that's a huge, immediately obvious issue. I have a hard time believing this story.

[sagegrouse]

There is a difference in circumference of one inch between the balls used in the men's and women's games. It's a big deal.

[dukelifer]

If you can't tell the diiference between a men's ball and a women's ball you've never played basketball.
Of course it would be the same for both teams, so why wouldn't FSU also complain? How can the refs not notice?
If true that's a huge, immediately obvious issue. I have a hard time believing this story.

I am guessing it was an overinflated women's ball.

[Ladeeeda]

If you can't tell the diiference between a men's ball and a women's ball you've never played basketball.
Of course it would be the same for both teams, so why wouldn't FSU also complain? How can the refs not notice?
If true that's a huge, immediately obvious issue. I have a hard time believing this story.

Why is it hard to believe? It has happened before in at least one other conference.
Lawson is not one to engage in bull I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. or play games. I believe her.

[DoubleBlue]

Why is it hard to believe? It has happened before in at least one other conference.
Lawson is not one to engage in bull I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. or play games. I believe her.

I'm not doubting Coach Lawson, but that the story doesn't make much sense and the facts may not be clear.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Why is it hard to believe? It has happened before in at least one other conference.
Lawson is not one to engage in BS, or play games. I believe her.

Yeah, she didn't spend 5 minutes in her presser to say that her players and staff were all involved in an elaborate lie.

[dudog84]

Here's the presser, for the pertinent part go to the 7:45 mark.

https://goduke.com/watch/?Archive=12517&type=Archive

Two things stand out to me, (1) that FSU officials would not change the ball when pointed out at halftime, the head referee had to be summoned to make them change it, and (2) the FSU and ACC officials deny that it happened.

Not sure I've ever heard a coach call out an opposing school and the conference like this.

I don't think we've heard the last of it either.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Here's the presser, for the pertinent part go to the 7:45 mark.

https://goduke.com/watch/?Archive=12517&type=Archive

Two things stand out to me, (1) that FSU officials would not change the ball when pointed out at halftime, the head referee had to be summoned to make them change it, and (2) the FSU and ACC officials deny that it happened.

Not sure I've ever heard a coach call out an opposing school and the conference like this.

I don't think we've heard the last of it either.

I fully expect it to be a lead story around ESPN women's section tomorrow. Kara's emotion was sky high.

[dudog84]

I fully expect it to be a lead story around ESPN women's section tomorrow. Kara's emotion was sky high.

Did you watch Shy's presser? One of the reporters asked for her reaction about FSUBallgate and she said 'No comment. My coach spoke about it.'. Such discipline .

[Acymetric]

This is a stupid/embarrassing mistake for whoever made it, but I'm not sure I understand the source of outrage, unless the official(s) who wouldn't change the ball were disrespectful about it or something along those lines.

Bringing the outcome of the game into the conversation seemed tacky.

[JasonEvans]

I believe this is a significant enough story -- and Coach L's comments are quite incendiary -- so that it should be moved into its own thread to give it more visibility outside of the general women's hoops thread.

Thanks...

This is a stupid/embarrassing mistake for whoever made it, but I'm not sure I understand the source of outrage, unless the official(s) who wouldn't change the ball were disrespectful about it or something along those lines.

Bringing the outcome of the game into the conversation seemed tacky.

I completely understand her outrage. That game is tainted. The single most important piece of game equipment was wrong in a very significant way. Kara brings up the result to point out that NO ONE can know who might have won the game had it been played with the correct ball and she is 100% right. If you have ever played basketball with the wrong sized ball, you know that it can impact the game in a big, big way.

FSU and the officials should be ashamed. They should have noticed this well before the game started.

[DoubleBlue]

ESPN picks up the story...
Duke's Kara Lawson says men's ball used in 1st half vs. FSU
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...st-half-vs-fsu
"To have a game that, at the end of the season, could be the difference between a seed, between a title, my players don't deserve that and neither do their players," Lawson said. "It's a complete failure. And you can figure out who the people I'm talking about that failed the sport and our players and both teams."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

One of the stranger sports controversies I can remember. Thoughts:

1) How did someone not notice? A player a ref a coach. I haven't picked up a basketball in several years, but I'm pretty confident I would notice if I picked up a women's ball immediately
2) Wouldn't this affect both teams equally? Unless FSU practicef with a men's ball for weeks in advance, I don't see the advantage.
3) Wouldn't this be VERY easily recognized and corrected once a complaint was made?

I just don't understand anything about this.

[CDu]

One of the stranger sports controversies I can remember. Thoughts:

1) How did someone not notice? A player a ref a coach. I haven't picked up a basketball in several years, but I'm pretty confident I would notice if I picked up a women's ball immediately
2) Wouldn't this affect both teams equally? Unless FSU practicef with a men's ball for weeks in advance, I don't see the advantage.
3) Wouldn't this be VERY easily recognized and corrected once a complaint was made?

I just don't understand anything about this.

1. The Duke players noticed, as per Lawson's comments.
2. It would affect the team that relies on better skill (most notably perimeter shooting) more than the team that relies more on non-skill attributes (hustle, physicality, etc.). Sort of like how "letting them play" benefits the team that plays physical basketball more than the finesse team, even if the rules are applied evenly. I don't know enough about either team to say who would benefit more in that particular game.
3. According to Lawson, it was corrected at halftime.

Not sure why the officials didn't recognize it immediately. I agree, it makes very little sense.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

One of the stranger sports controversies I can remember. Thoughts:

1) How did someone not notice? A player a ref a coach. I haven't picked up a basketball in several years, but I'm pretty confident I would notice if I picked up a women's ball immediately
2) Wouldn't this affect both teams equally? Unless FSU practicef with a men's ball for weeks in advance, I don't see the advantage.
3) Wouldn't this be VERY easily recognized and corrected once a complaint was made?

I just don't understand anything about this.

My thoughts exactly. Saying you want to protest the game after this really isn't a good look, unless, as you noted, it can be shown that FSU practiced with a men's ball and this made a huge difference. Also, I'm not clear why it took until halftime for us to say something about it, particularly if it was such a big deal. Worst case, they should have said something at the end of the first quarter.

The fact that people denied it and hesitated to make the change at halftime is odd.

I think that the big point is that women's college basketball has made huge progress and is much closer to being seen as equal to men's than it used to. Something like this looks very amateur and does not help that.

[LasVegas]

If your players are complaining about the basketball throughout the first half, why wait until halftime to check it out? Is that not weird? Such a strange story all around.

[Phredd3]

2) Wouldn't this affect both teams equally? Unless FSU practicef with a men's ball for weeks in advance, I don't see the advantage.

To be clear, Coach Lawson didn't say there was an advantage. She explicitly pointed out that Florida State won both halves of the game, the first half with a men's ball, and the second half with a women's ball. She was very, very clear about that.

She is still quite correct to be outraged. That just should not happen, and especially should not happen in a game that is officially counted in one of the premier conferences in women's college basketball. It's as bad as playing on a non-regulation court or with the wrong sized rim. There are no excuses.

The weird part is the denial from FSU and the conference. If the head official changed the ball, can't that be confirmed? And why would the team even ask to have the ball changed out if everything was fine? I'll certainly be following along with this story.

[dudog84]

Probably because it was inconceivable (they do know the meaning of the word, unlike Vizzini) to the coaches that the wrong ball was being used. They're in the heat of one of the most important games of the year. This team is not known for it's offensive prowess. The coaches probably thought 'Quit complaining. Make your shots.'.

[dudog84]

Maybe it's not as obvious as we think it should be. From the espn article:

This wasn't the first time this has happened in women's basketball. In 2017, the College of Charleston played home games and practiced with men's balls for most of its season until the error was discovered.

So that's at least a dozen teams (the opponents at CoC home games) that didn't notice. Or couldn't believe it could be true and didn't say anything.