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  1. #1

    Interesting Article/Read on Officials and Thoughts from Coaches

    https://theathletic.com/2974610/2021...me-some-teddy/

    I hope it's alright to post this article, but I found it really interesting. It gave coaches an anonymous platform to speak on some of the more well-known college basketball officials.

    As a high school basketball referee myself, I understand how difficult the job can be and also recognize just how fast the pace of the game can be at the high school level. The job is NOT easy, folks.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    "It was a pig fetus"

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    "It was a pig fetus"
    Not like the one in Philadelphia. Those Philadelphia fans take it to another level.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    Not like the one in Philadelphia. Those Philadelphia fans take it to another level.
    Mostly myth. Some deserved, some not. Its a defense mechanism being in the long shadow of New York and DC.

  6. #6
    Stupid paywall.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Raleigh
    I cant pretend that I am unbiased.
    I'm not really looking for "fair" I'm looking for my team to win!

    But within that, players getting punched in the throat, out of bounds calls that are blatantly incorrect...
    I've lost confidence that the referees are doing anything other than 'stopping fights" and making clock corrections for maximum ad revenue opportunities.

    Someone is going to get hurt.
    The game is far too physical. We focus too much on athletics prowess and have deemphasized game skills and team work.

  8. #8
    Good article, and thanks for posting.

    The love for Roger Ayres and Teddy Valentine took me by surprise. I think it highlights how different the experience is on the court than from the stands (or screen). As in all fields in life, better communication is preferred. I got the impression that the refs that are sphynxes on the court are least desired. Ayres may seem like a jerk, but I appreciate the he's consistently willing to come over, explain what he saw, and admit that he might have gotten it wrong. Being a ref is a thankless job. It's a job like Churchill's description of democracy: It's the worst system imaginable, except everything else we've ever tried.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Good article, and thanks for posting.

    The love for Roger Ayres and Teddy Valentine took me by surprise. I think it highlights how different the experience is on the court than from the stands (or screen). As in all fields in life, better communication is preferred. I got the impression that the refs that are sphynxes on the court are least desired. Ayres may seem like a jerk, but I appreciate the he's consistently willing to come over, explain what he saw, and admit that he might have gotten it wrong. Being a ref is a thankless job. It's a job like Churchill's description of democracy: It's the worst system imaginable, except everything else we've ever tried.
    Yeah, I was also surprised at the good descriptions of Valentine and Ayres. I recognize that I am watching the game through Duke tinted glasses and my criticism may be unfair.

    I agree with an earlier post that officiating is difficult. I have officiated at the lowest possible levels - college intramuarals, 8-12 year old games, and Special Olympics games. It's hard.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wilko View Post
    I cant pretend that I am unbiased.
    I'm not really looking for "fair" I'm looking for my team to win!

    But within that, players getting punched in the throat, out of bounds calls that are blatantly incorrect...
    I've lost confidence that the referees are doing anything other than 'stopping fights" and making clock corrections for maximum ad revenue opportunities.

    Someone is going to get hurt.
    The game is far too physical. We focus too much on athletics prowess and have deemphasized game skills and team work.
    Not sure why they allow the college game to be so physical. It has to be intentional. Maybe to provide more competitive balance as it generally benefits less gifted teams. I mean, how else are smaller/slower teams going to slow down a Banchero or Filipowski? The pro game is super physical too, but you can't impede movement like in the college game.

    The other thing I'd like college to take from the pros is a tilt towards calling a block versus a charge. It basically should be a block unless clear. Seems like in college it's kind of the opposite.

    And, since I'm ranting a little, how about post game flop reviews and, if egregious, a player starts the next game with 1 foul? That's probably a bad idea, but there should be some punishment for really bad flopping.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by JayZee View Post
    The other thing I'd like college to take from the pros is a tilt towards calling a block versus a charge. It basically should be a block unless clear. Seems like in college it's kind of the opposite.
    I agree. Often there is embelishment or exaggeration by the defender on a minor bump which results in him flying backwards (flopping) and the referee buys it and calls an offensive foul. The refs have gone too far into the gray area and should be giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. Just like in the NFL when a pass is caught by the receiver and the defender grabs it too. The offense gets the reception.

  12. #12
    I don't know if I feel like the game is too physical. They've done a good job at taking potential head injuries very seriously. We've now added video reviews for hook and holds underneath. I don't at all understand why. I'm sure it's happened at some point, but I've never seen someone get their arm hurt on a hook and hold. There are far more dangerous plays to be reviewing. Any hard foul is likely to be called a flagrant just because it's hard and thus "excessive." There's more freedom of movement than there used to be. I'm not sure what else I'd want to change. Some of the rule changes to help the offense have been bad for the game. Bring back the 5 seconds closely guarded rule.
    Trinity 2012

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    Bring back the 5 seconds closely guarded rule.
    Watching a defender chasing a 5 second call could be so exciting. Fully agreed on this.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    Watching a defender chasing a 5 second call could be so exciting. Fully agreed on this.
    They do still have the 5-second rule for when the ball is being held stationary. But yea, they did away with it while the player is dribbling.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Good article, and thanks for posting.

    The love for Roger Ayres and Teddy Valentine took me by surprise. I think it highlights how different the experience is on the court than from the stands (or screen). As in all fields in life, better communication is preferred. I got the impression that the refs that are sphynxes on the court are least desired. Ayres may seem like a jerk, but I appreciate the he's consistently willing to come over, explain what he saw, and admit that he might have gotten it wrong. Being a ref is a thankless job. It's a job like Churchill's description of democracy: It's the worst system imaginable, except everything else we've ever tried.
    That's an incredibly accurate description. Having actually met Ayers at some basketball camps and having the chance to conversate with him personally, they guy is about as pragmatic and down-to-earth as you can imagine. Ayers is actually a former firefighter who, quite literally, dealt with life and death situations regularly, so I think it affords him the chance to put everything in perspective. He's very selfless with coaches and is always open to communicate with them. That's certainly something I can appreciate.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Good article, and thanks for posting.

    The love for Roger Ayres and Teddy Valentine took me by surprise. I think it highlights how different the experience is on the court than from the stands (or screen). As in all fields in life, better communication is preferred. I got the impression that the refs that are sphynxes on the court are least desired. Ayres may seem like a jerk, but I appreciate the he's consistently willing to come over, explain what he saw, and admit that he might have gotten it wrong. Being a ref is a thankless job. It's a job like Churchill's description of democracy: It's the worst system imaginable, except everything else we've ever tried.
    Ayers is considered one of the best refs in the country: https://kenpom.com/blog/roger-ayers-is-the-best-ref/ even if fans like to complain.

    tv Teddy gets deserved hate for his antics

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by JayZee View Post
    Not sure why they allow the college game to be so physical. It has to be intentional. Maybe to provide more competitive balance as it generally benefits less gifted teams. I mean, how else are smaller/slower teams going to slow down a Banchero or Filipowski? The pro game is super physical too, but you can't impede movement like in the college game.

    The other thing I'd like college to take from the pros is a tilt towards calling a block versus a charge. It basically should be a block unless clear. Seems like in college it's kind of the opposite.

    And, since I'm ranting a little, how about post game flop reviews and, if egregious, a player starts the next game with 1 foul? That's probably a bad idea, but there should be some punishment for really bad flopping.
    A few years ago the NCAA tried to institute more freedom of movement and make the game less physical, which resulted in early season games with whistles on almost every possession and people were losing their minds because it was unwatchable. I agree the game needs more freedom and flow but donít know how to get there.

    Separately, I liked it back in the day when the refs used the concept of ďadvantageĒ in determining fouls. So an offensive player throws himself into a defender who has not totally established legal guarding position, thatís an offensive foul or no-call. Itís hard to define and determine ďadvantageĒ in the era of high speed cameras but would eliminate foul seeking behavior that I think is part of the current problem.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mkirsh View Post
    A few years ago the NCAA tried to institute more freedom of movement and make the game less physical, which resulted in early season games with whistles on almost every possession and people were losing their minds because it was unwatchable. I agree the game needs more freedom and flow but donít know how to get there.

    Separately, I liked it back in the day when the refs used the concept of ďadvantageĒ in determining fouls. So an offensive player throws himself into a defender who has not totally established legal guarding position, thatís an offensive foul or no-call. Itís hard to define and determine ďadvantageĒ in the era of high speed cameras but would eliminate foul seeking behavior that I think is part of the current problem.
    Oof. I don't mind the five second call coming back, but "advantage" is so very subjective. I don't want more judgment calls in the hands of officials. Sounds like more glacial replays at the end of a game to me.
    Last edited by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15; 02-02-2023 at 11:19 AM.

  19. #19
    I feel like the game needs less offensive fouls. The block/charge call should be a block call 90-95% of the game. If for no other reason than safety.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by chadlee989 View Post
    I feel like the game needs less offensive fouls. The block/charge call should be a block call 90-95% of the game. If for no other reason than safety.
    This was the catalyst for the NCAA adopting the restricted area.

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