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Thread: Dear DBR

  1. #101
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    There are certainly some posters here who seem to think that it is really important to convince everybody that their point of view is the one and only correct one. This kind of poster refuses to "agree to disagree," and some of them seem not to even really slow down to even consider that somebody else's ideas might have some merit.

    That's not my style, and I hope that people who have been around a while know that I am the kind of guy who will, at least occasionally, post, in essence, "I was wrong" or "I hadn't thought of it that way, thanks for the input," and the like.

    I'm ok with people absolutely refusing to consider any other point of view than their own. What I'm not ok with is when such a poster won't stop their efforts to convince everybody else that they are correct. In other words, I would ok with something like "Well, I've laid out my points very clearly, and I disagree entirely with what you have posted; but since it seems like the conversation is just going around in circles, I'll back out of this conversation now." To be fair, sometimes we do see this type of post. Other times, however, it seems that a person not only believes that their opinion is unassailable, but seemingly believes that every single person on DBR MUST agree with them, and seemingly feels like if they stop trying to convince everybody, it is some kind of a moral failing or something.

    This is the only thing that really bothers me; in other words, once I've read your point in a thread five times, I don't feel like I need to hear it a sixth. And if I haven't agreed with you after hearing it five times, it's a fair bet that your sixth iteration will also fail. Oh, and you are never going to get EVERYBODY on DBR to agree with your point, no matter how valid it may be, or how solid it may seem to you. So please give it a rest!

    I'm not naming any names. If you see yourself in this description, then maybe consider agreeing to disagree once in a while. It will make DBR an even better place.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I have no idea whether I'm one of the posters that's the target of some of this frustration, but if I am I'm authentically sorry. Personally, my intention is never to "shut down" alternative viewpoints (after all, we're talking about a sports team, not solving world hunger, haha), but I understand how things could sometimes be interpreted that way. My intention is only ever to:

    1) Call out clear troll-ish behavior when we see it. Sometimes this is correlated with "alternative viewpoints" for obvious reasons, so I can see how this can get conflated at quick glance.
    2) Call out behavior that reflects poorly on the Duke fanbase. This is all about tone: there's a difference between saying, "I'm disappointed in this team right now, and anxious about our postseason prospects" and saying "The season is over, Scheyer is in over is head and the program is nosediving fast". More posts than we'd like to admit have been closer to that latter, cartoonish example than we'd like to admit, and that's not a good look for us as fans.
    3) Call out behavior that doesn't adhere to DBR standards. Again, this sometimes correlates with "alternative viewpoints". But there's a reason DBR has a "no venting/bashing" policy post game... like it or not, those are the rules of this privately run forum. Following those basic guidelines helps to maintain the community/family atmosphere around here and prevent it from devolving into just another online fan site, or in a worst-case scenario IC.

    If I ever post anything that rubs someone the wrong way, please PM me to let me know. Oftentimes these things can go unnoticed because the "tone" you have in your mind as you type something often isn't the "tone" other people read it in... it's a problem of text-based communication. But everyone needs to remember the reverse is also true. If you feel the need to express your frustration with the team's performance, or your sincere concerns about Coach Scheyer's aptitude for this job, take a second to think about how the post might read to someone who isn't in your headspace... and, if necessary, spell out the nuance/context so that we can get as close as we can to that as we read your posts.

    This season has been more challenging that many of us expected, although we honestly probably should have seen it coming... moving on from Coach K was never going to be perfectly smooth. Correspondingly, we're all had moments on the board where we act out of character. I hope moving forward we can continue to give each other the benefit of the doubt when these moments occur, assuming of course that the basic level of civility on the board remains unperturbed.
    While you can be a tad relentlessly sunshiney, I do think you are firmly in the good dude poster camp; if not it's Grand Pooh-Bah. I guess if one had to be relentlessly anything, sunshiney would be a fairly awesome choice.

    I do think DBR has become a bit less inviting over the past several years. As a personal example, I have wanted to introduce my father to DBR. I think he would benefit from hearing different views on Duke basketball (sometimes Dads are hearing-challenged with respect to their sons). Unfortunately, he can be hot takey at times. I shudder at the response I fear he would receive.

    For my part, I try not to be part of the problem. I am not sure I am always successful, but I will continue to try to be better.

  3. #103
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    While you can be a tad relentlessly sunshiney, I do think you are firmly in the good dude poster camp; if not it's Grand Pooh-Bah. I guess if one had to be relentlessly anything, sunshiney would be a fairly awesome choice.

    I do think DBR has become a bit less inviting over the past several years. As a personal example, I have wanted to introduce my father to DBR. I think he would benefit from hearing different views on Duke basketball (sometimes Dads are hearing-challenged with respect to their sons). Unfortunately, he can be hot takey at times. I shudder at the response I fear he would receive.

    For my part, I try not to be part of the problem. I am not sure I am always successful, but I will continue to try to be better.
    I, again, chuckle that my reputation around here is the optimistic, sunshiney, glass-half-full guy... because it's just not how I am in everyday life. Maybe I'm a different person on here, maybe I self-censor my posts enough, maybe I've matured in my middle age... but if you told anyone who has watched a Michigan football or Duke basketball game with me in person that I had the reputation of being an "overly sunshiney" fan, they might do a spit take
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    I think we have to remember that this is an internet forum. I think it's entirely appropriate for us to talk about who we think should play and what types of offenses and defenses we should run. I think most everyone here is pretty sane and understands that none of us comes close to the basketball knowledge of a D1 head coach. We're not seeing the players in practice. Most of us haven't devoted our lives to learning the game. But... none of us is going to call Coach Scheyer and advise him on what to do differently the next game. I think it's still completely fair game for us to talk about it amongst ourselves on here. I think that's just part of sports discussions among sports fans. Most of the time we think that the coach needs to do something differently, we will eventually be proven wrong. Every once in a while, you might be proven right. I don't really see any harm in that.
    I agree with you here. I think there's a fairly sizable contingent on here who comes just for that. And those people should be able to do that to their heart's content. I'm here to sort of commune with other Duke fans. I don't like the Monday morning quarterbacking portion. But that's okay. I don't have to. The beauty of this site is that it's free and not compulsory. Plus ideological Purity sucks. It's okay if people disagree.

  5. #105
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    I agree with you here. I think there's a fairly sizable contingent on here who comes just for that. And those people should be able to do that to their heart's content. I'm here to sort of commune with other Duke fans. I don't like the Monday morning quarterbacking portion. But that's okay. I don't have to. The beauty of this site is that it's free and not compulsory. Plus ideological Purity sucks. It's okay if people disagree.
    I have expressed my views here on Duke players, but pretty mildly.

    I was truly puzzled that people were so down on Fli preseason. He had looked pretty darned good in the U18 three-man game world championships.

    Early in the season (preseason?) I thought Flip and Whitehead were strong candidates for 1st or 2nd team All-ACC. Half right.

    I thought that either Proctor or Roach were candidates for 3rd team All-ACC. Maybe, maybe not.

    I may have been a few days ahead of the coaches in wanting Lively to get more minutes, because of disruptive effects on defense/

    I had no strong opinions about transfers Ryan and Jacob, but have been pleasantly surprised by Young and still hopeful for Grandison.
    Sage Grouse

    ---------------------------------------
    'When I got on the bus for my first road game at Duke, I saw that every player was carrying textbooks or laptops. I coached in the SEC for 25 years, and I had never seen that before, not even once.' - David Cutcliffe to Duke alumni in Washington, DC, June 2013

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.[URL="tel:91.92.01.10.15;1567434"
    91.92.01.10.15;1567434[/URL]]Admittedly, we are entering a different phase of fandom that many of us have never experienced.

    While there have been moments of frustration with Coach K and his recruiting/strategy etc, his performance was largely above reproach. There was definitely a tone of "hey, he's the best, we shouldn't second guess him" that was understandable to a degree.

    95% of all the college programs have a part of their dialogue in the "bar room chat" about "we need to change coaches" or "we will never win as long as Coach keeps XYZ."

    We all like Scheyer and are hoping for the best, but we will absolutely be hearing more coaching criticism from all sides. Some of it will be warranted, some of it will be absurd.

    Until Jon starts piling up the hardware, he will have to take the slings and arrows.
    Actually, there have been times when I thought K missed a chance, and Iíve been very cautious about posting my thoughts. (As an example, at the end of the MichSt game in the Zion season, and with fouls to give, Duke let State get a 3 point shot off.). anyway, there are two reason why I have been cautious about pointing out what seem to me like clear coaching errors
    1) there are plenty of regulars here that understand the game much better than I do. If they donít see a problem, maybe itís not a problem
    2) someone will always replay ďSo you think you know better then the GOAT?Ē

    So if the trend on DBR is to allow more open discussion of coaching, that could be a good thing.

    NOw that I got that off my chest, DBR is (IMHO) the best forum I know of on any topic. Itís the main reason Iím still invested in Duke fandom.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Neals384 View Post
    Actually, there have been times when I thought K missed a chance, and Iíve been very cautious about posting my thoughts. (As an example, at the end of the MichSt game in the Zion season, and with fouls to give, Duke let State get a 3 point shot off.). anyway, there are two reason why I have been cautious about pointing out what seem to me like clear coaching errors
    1) there are plenty of regulars here that understand the game much better than I do. If they donít see a problem, maybe itís not a problem
    2) someone will always replay ďSo you think you know better then the GOAT?Ē

    So if the trend on DBR is to allow more open discussion of coaching, that could be a good thing.

    NOw that I got that off my chest, DBR is (IMHO) the best forum I know of on any topic. Itís the main reason Iím still invested in Duke fandom.
    I wasn't intending to indicate that the change was or wasn't a good thing. Just that most college basketball fans spend a lot more time critiquing their coach (or calling for him to be fired) than our favorite program has for the last 40 years.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronBlue View Post
    Yeah Spam is what Turkey aspires to be. However, I will give a shout out to the Honeysuckle at Lakewood in Derm. Had their Turkey Club the other evening and it was outstanding.
    Treet never garnered the respect it was due as a premium canned meat. It always paled in the shadow of its more famous and glamorous step-sister much like a Monza to a Sunbird or a Comet to a Maverick. Like their distant cousin, Vienna Sausages, they are always best when fried in a cast iron skillet, served on toast with Dukes mayo and slice of Velveeta and paired with a Natural Lite (the beer with the taste for food) of course.

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