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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX

    Jay Bilas celebratory punch

    While I think the Virginia Tech "punch" should have been called a foul, I have a distinct memory of Jay Bilas playing a game for Duke, scoring a big basket and then turning and throwing a celebratory fist in the air. It then unfortunately became a celebratory punch when it contacted an opposing player. I'm curious if that was called a foul back then (I want to say it was)? I assume the "incidental" contact rule is a more recent creation.

    Perhaps better internet researchers can see if they can find that clip and if that was called a foul? Would obviously be during Jay's time with Duke in the early 80s. All this means nothing for the current discussion, mainly curious if anyone else recalls the same play.

  2. #2
    Not related to the Bilas punch, but just an interesting side note...Kipp Kissinger was on the officials crew for the Carolina/Baylor game last year where Manek was issued an FF2.

    Guess who was also on the game last night?

  3. #3
    Not related to anything, but I can remember Vernon Carey getting a tech for a celebratory yell after making a basket. And also last year, I canít remember who, but someone got a tech for a head pat after a dunk. I noticed because I thought Mark Williams needs to be careful.

    Of course, neither of those resulted in injury to another player.

  4. #4
    Iím in Argentina and the Internet went out with about two minutes left in the game last night. I finally saw the punch earlier today. It was CLEARLY a tech/FF1, even IF inadvertent, which I think it was, or FF2/ejection/suspension or dismissal from team if on purpose. We should have gotten 2 shots and the ball. Stolen game.

    My guess to the question above: TV Teddy Valentine

    Go Guke!! 9F

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    The terms flagrant one and flagrant two didn't exist back then, and the definitions of what constituted a technical were different. But that was a different era. To provide further evidence, this was called a regular foul.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by SavDukeGrad View Post
    Not related to anything, but I can remember Vernon Carey getting a tech for a celebratory yell after making a basket. And also last year, I canít remember who, but someone got a tech for a head pat after a dunk. I noticed because I thought Mark Williams needs to be careful.
    Yeah Mark Williams patted his head every single time he dunked on someone, yet they randomly T'ed him up for it one time. The T on Carey for yelling was egregious as well, especially for a typically mild mannered player who wasn't known for showboating. Yet guys like Alvarez from GT was allowed to do that stupid air guitar celebration and that was fine.

  7. #7
    My opinion on the punch:

    It would have been a common foul earlier in the game. However, a common foul that includes a fist forcibly applied to the throat and face is a flagrant by rule. This was too harsh of a call for an irresponsible but innocent mistake. Therefore, the equitable solution was just to ignore it.

    The foul made it harder for us to win, but it would have been a bad way for the game to end and affect the outcome. Therefore, ignoring the technical rule and having no foul was the best outcome.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Namtilal View Post
    My opinion on the punch:

    It would have been a common foul earlier in the game. However, a common foul that includes a fist forcibly applied to the throat and face is a flagrant by rule. This was too harsh of a call for an irresponsible but innocent mistake. Therefore, the equitable solution was just to ignore it.
    I showed the clip to a referee friend, who emphasized that he couldn't tell where exactly the ball was when Flip got punched. If the inbounder had access to the ball then it could have been a common foul, but it wasn't whistled at the time. Thus, it was a dead ball situation and therefore a tech or nothing; they couldn't call a common foul there upon review.

    FWIW he said it probably has to get called as a tech (he would have) but that there is some wiggle-room there to determine it's incidental contact. I wouldn't expect an apology from the ACC.
    Trinity '09

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    I think TV Teddy would have called the FF1 'cuz he likes to show off for his granddaughter. You can't do that with a no call.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon990 View Post
    While I think the Virginia Tech "punch" should have been called a foul, I have a distinct memory of Jay Bilas playing a game for Duke, scoring a big basket and then turning and throwing a celebratory fist in the air.
    Where was this game played?
    Carolina delenda est

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Was really hoping this thread was suggesting punching Jay Bilas every time we celebrated!

  12. #12
    In the replay that the refs saw, you can clearly see Flip lowering his forearm into the dude as he backed up into Flip. The dude sensing contact into his back turned into Flip faced him, closed his fist made hard and clear contact. Kept fist closed and back pedaled holding clench fist continuing the action which was deemed celebratory. Ok fine. I submit that all of Grayson Allenís leg kicks are just his unique way of celebrating and that he should never have been assessed a foul. Let athletes express themselves I say. He clearly has been misunderstood all these years. Letís all kick once for GA! At least his accidental victims didnít have to gasp for air and puke in a towel. Flip carries an engraved wallet like Jules Winnfield. I hope he gets a chance to celebrate a dinky 2 point jumper on VaTech in the ACC!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by brandon990 View Post
    While I think the Virginia Tech "punch" should have been called a foul, I have a distinct memory of Jay Bilas playing a game for Duke, scoring a big basket and then turning and throwing a celebratory fist in the air. It then unfortunately became a celebratory punch when it contacted an opposing player. I'm curious if that was called a foul back then (I want to say it was)? I assume the "incidental" contact rule is a more recent creation.

    Perhaps better internet researchers can see if they can find that clip and if that was called a foul? Would obviously be during Jay's time with Duke in the early 80s. All this means nothing for the current discussion, mainly curious if anyone else recalls the same play.
    I looked for that clip after last nightís game and couldnít find it. As I recall, the situation was similar. Bilas turned after a made basket and accidentally slammed his fist into some guyís head. Donít recall whether it got a foulÖ.

  14. #14
    IIRC Scott Williams did a similar thing to Bobby Hurley. Nothing was called back then either but that was before player safety and concussion protocols were a thing.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazieDUMB View Post
    I showed the clip to a referee friend, who emphasized that he couldn't tell where exactly the ball was when Flip got punched. If the inbounder had access to the ball then it could have been a common foul, but it wasn't whistled at the time. Thus, it was a dead ball situation and therefore a tech or nothing; they couldn't call a common foul there upon review.
    With all due respect to your referee friend, if the inbounder had access to the ball, than it should have been a flagrant foul. It was not a "basketball play" and therefore qualifies as a flagrant 1 foul by the terms of the rulebook. If the inbounder does not have access to the ball, then, yes, it is a contact dead ball technical foul, rather than a flagrant foul. The only differences are that, in the latter case, any member of the offended team can take the free throws, and the contact does count as one of two Class A technical fouls toward ejection.

    It was not a "tech or nothing". It was a flagrant 1 or a contact dead ball technical. While I agree that a common foul could not have been called on review, calling nothing also should not have been an option.

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