Page 7 of 23 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 448
  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    As to your other point FDD, you're right that the evidence is minimal so far. Personally, I've seen Scheyer make some specific adjustments over the past few games, including his defensive adjustments against Va Tech, that have me feeling quite encouraged. But one thing that we may be overlooking is that Coach K chose him, and I'm not sure there's a better way to vouch for his potential.
    Arguably more important than in-game tactical adjustments, one thing we've seen from this team is a lot of fight. We were blown out by NC State and closed up shop a little early in that game. And that's the one and only time that's happened. Even against Purdue - the only other time we've truly been blown out - we closed the lead to 7 points with just 7:00 left to play before we just got tired out and faded at the end. These guys are in there busting their tails even when they can't manage to put together a win. The greatest question mark of any coach is whether or not they can inspire and motivate their players. Cutcliffe lost the ability to do that, and a great coach had to walk away unceremoniously from the program he had successfully raised from the dead. But Scheyer is doing this in spades right now, and it makes even the losses tolerable to watch. I want to root for these guys.

    This team.
    Last edited by Phredd3; 01-25-2023 at 10:29 AM.

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    Arguably more important than in-game tactical adjustments, one thing we've seen from this team is a lot of fight. We were blown out by NC State and closed up shop a little early in that game. And that's the one and only time that's happened. Even against Purdue - the only other time we've truly been blown out - we closed the lead to 7 points with just 7:00 left to play before we just got tired out and faded at the end. These guys are in there busting their tails even when they can't manage to put together a win. The greatest question mark of any coach is whether or not they can inspire and motivate their players. Cutcliffe lost the ability to do that, and a great coach had to walk away unceremoniously from the program he had successfully raised from the dead. But Scheyer is doing this in spades right now, and it makes even the losses tolerable to watch. I want to root for these guys.

    This team.
    I agree completely. The State and Wake losses were the bad ones. I don't think the losses against Clemson and VT were any sort of sign that this team or the program or the head coach are on the wrong track. Can you imagine where we'd be if this team had Wendell Moore back, or Mark Williams back, or a freshman that performed like one of our usual top talents?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    I agree completely. The State and Wake losses were the bad ones. I don't think the losses against Clemson and VT were any sort of sign that this team or the program or the head coach are on the wrong track. Can you imagine where we'd be if this team had Wendell Moore back, or Mark Williams back, or a freshman that performed like one of our usual top talents?
    I can't help but think this team would benefit somewhat from having a senior Zion Williamson on the roster.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I can't help but think this team would benefit somewhat from having a senior Zion Williamson on the roster.
    Eh, I don't know. Zion was just okay.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I can't help but think this team would benefit somewhat from having a senior Zion Williamson on the roster.
    Agreed. He would just be so good for the chemistry. All the pieces would fit together just so much better.

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    For what it's worth, the author didn't specifically call out this forum (although I can think of at least a few who merit it). He called out a segment of Duke fans, with an emphasis on those who use Twitter to vent their frustrations... and we all know that, for better or worse, that can and does get seen by players, recruits, etc. If we disagree on whether there are "entitled" fans on this board (and you're both right that the number is very low, although not 0), there are certainly many such fans out there in the wild. While I don't actively use Twitter to discuss Duke basketball, I do use my professional account (yes, that's a thing... we live in weird times) to lurk on those conversations, and JD is 100% right that there are a lot of IC-level posts by otherwise "normal" fans on there.

    As to your other point FDD, you're right that the evidence is minimal so far. Personally, I've seen Scheyer make some specific adjustments over the past few games, including his defensive adjustments against Va Tech, that have me feeling quite encouraged. But one thing that we may be overlooking is that Coach K chose him, and I'm not sure there's a better way to vouch for his potential.
    If the author is going on Twitter to gauge Duke fandom, then he's in the wrong place. Twitter is the ultimate hellscape. It's awful. No fanbase looks good on Twitter.

    As for Coach K choosing Scheyer, I'm not sure how much equity I put into this. To bring in a business analog, one of the most difficult responsibilities of a leader is succession. Bob Iger (Disney), Howard Schultz (Starbucks), and Jack Welch (GE) are all storied, incredible CEOs. And they each hand-selected a successor who failed miserably. The same applies for sports. Look at some of the greatest sporting coaches in the last 20-30 years: Sir Alex Ferguson (Man Utd), Phil Jackson (Bulls and Lakers), Pat Summitt (Tennessee), Pat Riley (first stint with the Heat), etc. Each of these legends was involved in helping to select a coach. And each of the successors didn't last that long.

    It is stupidly hard to follow a legend. 'Good' unfortunately just isn't enough. And while fanbases will get angry, the truth is the alumni that matter will also get angry. And that's the beginning of the end (not suggesting Scheyer will fail; just suggesting the hurdles he'll face are very challenging).

    Also, I think one area where Coach K failed is not casting a wider net. He wanted a person familiar with Duke basketball, and truth is Coach K's tree is pretty bad for a legend who coached for nearly 45 years. No coach on his tree made it to a Final Four. Only Mike Brey has had success in the college ranks. Quin Synder had success in the NBA but failed in college. And Tommy Amaker, while really good at Harvard, failed at Michigan.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    If the author is going on Twitter to gauge Duke fandom, then he's in the wrong place. Twitter is the ultimate hellscape. It's awful. No fanbase looks good on Twitter.

    As for Coach K choosing Scheyer, I'm not sure how much equity I put into this. To bring in a business analog, one of the most difficult responsibilities of a leader is succession. Bob Iger (Disney), Howard Schultz (Starbucks), and Jack Welch (GE) are all storied, incredible CEOs. And they each hand-selected a successor who failed miserably. The same applies for sports. Look at some of the greatest sporting coaches in the last 20-30 years: Sir Alex Ferguson (Man Utd), Phil Jackson (Bulls and Lakers), Pat Summitt (Tennessee), Pat Riley (first stint with the Heat), etc. Each of these legends was involved in helping to select a coach. And each of the successors didn't last that long.

    It is stupidly hard to follow a legend. 'Good' unfortunately just isn't enough. And while fanbases will get angry, the truth is the alumni that matter will also get angry. And that's the beginning of the end (not suggesting Scheyer will fail; just suggesting the hurdles he'll face are very challenging).

    Also, I think one area where Coach K failed is not casting a wider net. He wanted a person familiar with Duke basketball, and truth is Coach K's tree is pretty bad for a legend who coached for nearly 45 years. No coach on his tree made it to a Final Four. Only Mike Brey has had success in the college ranks. Quin Synder had success in the NBA but failed in college. And Tommy Amaker, while really good at Harvard, failed at Michigan.
    Yeah, before Scheyer emerged as an option for head coach, I thought it was a really bad idea to suggest we needed a head coach who had played at Duke. At the time, I thought that meant Capel. I would have loved for Wojo or Bobby Hurley to prove themselves and be the next coach. That didn't happen. There just weren't any options. I think Scheyer was the best choice, and I think he will be successful, but I hope that we don't eventually realize that the fatal flaw of the succession plan was that we had to have a Duke guy.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I can't help but think this team would benefit somewhat from having a senior Zion Williamson on the roster.
    I dunno, maybe, but would he embrace a role coming off the bench? I would hate to see him get Paulus’d, but we’ve already got a C who was ranked higher than Zion coming out of HS.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    With the flagrant foul rules these days, it could be outright dangerous to let Zion on the court. A punch to the throat from him could kill somebody.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    With the flagrant foul rules these days, it could be outright dangerous to let Zion on the court. A punch to the throat from him could kill somebody.
    I mean, that’s fair, but Zion killing someone on the court probably would have been against the rules in any era.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    With the flagrant foul rules these days, it could be outright dangerous to let Zion on the court. A punch to the throat from him could kill somebody.
    Celebratory punch to the throat. Remember, the 'celebratory' part makes it a non-Flagrant.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Incidental homicide

  13. #133
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Storrs, CT
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    I agree completely. The State and Wake losses were the bad ones. I don't think the losses against Clemson and VT were any sort of sign that this team or the program or the head coach are on the wrong track. Can you imagine where we'd be if this team had Wendell Moore back, or Mark Williams back, or a freshman that performed like one of our usual top talents?
    Yes, but unfortunately we don't. So I think as fans we have a choice to make: do we ruminate about what could've been if any of a dozen proverbial "bounces" went our way, or do we adjust our perspective to enjoy what we have now? I think there's a lot of enjoyment to find in the fight this team shows even if it doesn't yield quite as many wins as we're used to.

    NECESSARY DISCLAIMER: I am about to invoke Michigan, albeit briefly. If this annoys you, please move forward to the next paragraph.

    At the risk of drawing the ire of the few people in this thread who still might be on my side (haha), while I was in grad school in Ann Arbor I learned there was a different type of joy rooting for a team that wasn't a juggernaut. There were years where Michigan was fighting for a tourney berth that were agonizing, but in a weird way just as enjoyable as the years where we were competing for B1G titles: I could go to a big home game against a Top 10 team, root my butt off, watch the team fight the good fight and lose, but walk out thinking, "Man Michigan looked good tonight, but we just played a better team... hopefully we keep that momentum going next game against a fellow bubble team that we need to win!" Now before people start flaming me, I am in no way drawing any similarities between the expectations at Michigan and those at Duke. But I think there's something to be gleaned from how other fan bases that aren't as fortunate as Duke view the game.

    You may now safely continue reading my post without any mentions of Michigan.

    Long story short: it can also be fun rooting for a team that doesn't have National Championship or bust expectations. I think most rational people here recognize that, while the ceiling is still high enough for those goals, a lot of things would have to go right (many of which are out of the team's hands, like Dariq's health) for us to approach that ceiling. But it can still be a heck of a lot of fun watching this team run their race, working to find their stride by March to hopefully make an unexpected run at things. Heck, the 2017 ACC Tourney is one of my most cherished memories as a Duke fan because of how unexpected it was. This team can still do some pretty awesome unexpected things, but our enjoyment of them will be proportional to how we tweak our perspective based on the first 20 games of the season.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Prepare for the front page article about how childish we're being for making jokes about someone getting punched in the throat... Not a laughing matter. Grow up!

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Yes, but unfortunately we don't. So I think as fans we have a choice to make: do we ruminate about what could've been if any of a dozen proverbial "bounces" went our way, or do we adjust our perspective to enjoy what we have now? I think there's a lot of enjoyment to find in the fight this team shows even if it doesn't yield quite as many wins as we're used to.

    NECESSARY DISCLAIMER: I am about to invoke Michigan, albeit briefly. If this annoys you, please move forward to the next paragraph.

    At the risk of drawing the ire of the few people in this thread who still might be on my side (haha), while I was in grad school in Ann Arbor I learned there was a different type of joy rooting for a team that wasn't a juggernaut. There were years where Michigan was fighting for a tourney berth that were agonizing, but in a weird way just as enjoyable as the years where we were competing for B1G titles: I could go to a big home game against a Top 10 team, root my butt off, watch the team fight the good fight and lose, but walk out thinking, "Man Michigan looked good tonight, but we just played a better team... hopefully we keep that momentum going next game against a fellow bubble team that we need to win!" Now before people start flaming me, I am in no way drawing any similarities between the expectations at Michigan and those at Duke. But I think there's something to be gleaned from how other fan bases that aren't as fortunate as Duke view the game.

    You may now safely continue reading my post without any mentions of Michigan.

    Long story short: it can also be fun rooting for a team that doesn't have National Championship or bust expectations. I think most rational people here recognize that, while the ceiling is still high enough for those goals, a lot of things would have to go right (many of which are out of the team's hands, like Dariq's health) for us to approach that ceiling. But it can still be a heck of a lot of fun watching this team run their race, working to find their stride by March to hopefully make an unexpected run at things. Heck, the 2017 ACC Tourney is one of my most cherished memories as a Duke fan because of how unexpected it was. This team can still do some pretty awesome unexpected things, but our enjoyment of them will be proportional to how we tweak our perspective based on the first 20 games of the season.
    I had mentioned "what if" we had those players, not out of despair or frustration that they aren't here, but moreso to say that this team could be having a very different season if just one more player had remained or if we had gotten a typical top 5 freshman player. In other words, saying that there's nothing to panic about. You're not supposed to be as good when you lose your whole team and you freshmen aren't as good as expected. Hopefully, losing our whole team won't be the norm; although, the jury's still out on that. But I guarantee it won't be the norm that the #1 and #2 recruits will have this kind of season (talking about their injuries and their performances).

  16. #136
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Storrs, CT
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    If the author is going on Twitter to gauge Duke fandom, then he's in the wrong place. Twitter is the ultimate hellscape. It's awful. No fanbase looks good on Twitter.

    As for Coach K choosing Scheyer, I'm not sure how much equity I put into this. To bring in a business analog, one of the most difficult responsibilities of a leader is succession. Bob Iger (Disney), Howard Schultz (Starbucks), and Jack Welch (GE) are all storied, incredible CEOs. And they each hand-selected a successor who failed miserably. The same applies for sports. Look at some of the greatest sporting coaches in the last 20-30 years: Sir Alex Ferguson (Man Utd), Phil Jackson (Bulls and Lakers), Pat Summitt (Tennessee), Pat Riley (first stint with the Heat), etc. Each of these legends was involved in helping to select a coach. And each of the successors didn't last that long.

    It is stupidly hard to follow a legend. 'Good' unfortunately just isn't enough. And while fanbases will get angry, the truth is the alumni that matter will also get angry. And that's the beginning of the end (not suggesting Scheyer will fail; just suggesting the hurdles he'll face are very challenging).

    Also, I think one area where Coach K failed is not casting a wider net. He wanted a person familiar with Duke basketball, and truth is Coach K's tree is pretty bad for a legend who coached for nearly 45 years. No coach on his tree made it to a Final Four. Only Mike Brey has had success in the college ranks. Quin Synder had success in the NBA but failed in college. And Tommy Amaker, while really good at Harvard, failed at Michigan.
    You're 100% right on all counts. Regarding the article, I think we have to give it a bit more generous of a reading then some are, and assume that the intended audience isn't the average DBR poster but rather the minority that has become louder than usual of late. When viewed in that light, I don't think the article is at all unreasonable, and the general perspective it preaches is something for us all to consider if we can separate it from the more aggressive tone that isn't directed at us.

    It's also very possible I'm viewing K's endorsement of Scheyer through rose colored glasses. Time will tell, I guess. But I don't think that time is now, or probably even a year from now. Hence why I think some of the hand wringing on this board/in this thread is so premature.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    You're 100% right on all counts. Regarding the article, I think we have to give it a bit more generous of a reading then some are, and assume that the intended audience isn't the average DBR poster but rather the minority that has become louder than usual of late. When viewed in that light, I don't think the article is at all unreasonable, and the general perspective it preaches is something for us all to consider if we can separate it from the more aggressive tone that isn't directed at us.

    It's also very possible I'm viewing K's endorsement of Scheyer through rose colored glasses. Time will tell, I guess. But I don't think that time is now, or probably even a year from now. Hence why I think some of the hand wringing on this board/in this thread is so premature.
    I didn't find it reasonable because it the "author" (you can be the author of an article, but it was more of a rant) behaved as childishly as the people he was chastising. It was not a helpful reminder to stay positive, be patient, and be grateful for what we have - it was an opportunity to put himself above the audience, who were specifically identified as people who are acting like children who need to grow up. If a non-moderator wrote that post on these boards, he or she would be given a formal warning by the mods (our power tripping DBR versions of the Duke line monitors).

    Side note - I'd actually be curious how many line monitors have become moderators on the DBR. There are a lot of similarities.

  18. #138
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Storrs, CT
    Quote Originally Posted by Southgate0809 View Post
    I didn't find it reasonable because it the "author" (you can be the author of an article, but it was more of a rant) behaved as childishly as the people he was chastising. It was not a helpful reminder to stay positive, be patient, and be grateful for what we have - it was an opportunity to put himself above the audience, who were specifically identified as people who are acting like children who need to grow up. If a non-moderator wrote that post on these boards, he or she would be given a formal warning by the mods (our power tripping DBR versions of the Duke line monitors).

    Side note - I'd actually be curious how many line monitors have become moderators on the DBR. There are a lot of similarities.
    While I share your frustrations about the Line Monitors, I take mild umbrage at the comparison with the mods here. The mods do yeoman's work without any sort of thanks or recognition. Without them, this wouldn't be the "community" that I've grown to love, but likely would've devolved into another IC-like fan forum long ago. They have an important job to do here, and they do it well, despite taking a lot of unfair criticism in the process.

    And, FWIW, you'll find the mods to be a fair and agreeable bunch if you engage with them in good faith. True story: I received a fairly serious infraction for "rumor mongering" in my early days on the board, as I had heard through the grapevine at The Chronicle that Michael Gbinije was planning on transferring well before there was any sourced reporting on the topic. I had a back and forth with the mods, understood the policy more clearly, and was graciously told that, if something like that every came across my desk again, that I should feel free to reach out to run it by them before posting. It was a positive experience out of something that could've driven me away from DBR forever, and man am I glad it didn't.

    As to the article, I agree that the tone choice was interesting. I mentioned I was thinking of writing something on similar lines, but I had in mind a much different tone and style. So it goes: everyone has a slightly different voice when they're writing. You're entitled to your opinion about the tone, although I disagree. I will say that it's a shame that the core of the piece is now getting ignored in lieu of discussing the tone, which is a responsibility all parties (us and the author) share.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    While I share your frustrations about the Line Monitors, I take mild umbrage at the comparison with the mods here. The mods do yeoman's work without any sort of thanks or recognition. Without them, this wouldn't be the "community" that I've grown to love, but likely would've devolved into another IC-like fan forum long ago. They have an important job to do here, and they do it well, despite taking a lot of unfair criticism in the process.

    As to the article, I agree that the tone choice was interesting. I mentioned I was thinking of writing something on similar lines, but I had in mind a much different tone and style. So it goes: everyone has a slightly different voice when they're writing. You're entitled to your opinion about the tone, although I disagree. I will say that it's a shame that the core of the piece is now getting ignored in lieu of discussing the tone, which is a responsibility all parties (us and the author) share.
    I don't doubt that your tone would have been much different, Scott.

  20. #140
    So quick question. Lets play DUKE MULTIVERSE in which in an alternate reality, Duke beats UNC and then KU to win K's 6th and final championship. And everything else for this season is the same. Same record, same losses, same lineup struggles.

    How are we feeling about Jon now?

    I think thats part of it, at least I'll admit it to some degree. I wanted Duke to have an answer for how last year ended, maybe another (very unlikely at this point) FF run, to get the program "back on track" after suffering what was an emotionally grueling loss.

    We're not getting that. We're having to be more patient than I think anyone here expected to be at this point. The pendulum of unpredictability swings both ways. We did not foresee an unranked Duke MBB team in late January, anymore than we foresaw the football team going 9-4 in its 1st year under Coach Elko.

    My biggest concern about the team and program currently is how many of this year's players are going to return and build on this experience. Its not going to be fun to see the team struggle only to have them start from scratch next season. I know some lineup turnover is inevitable, but if Scheyer can get some more player retention, and those players improve, then I'm going to be more at peace.

Similar Threads

  1. Tua and the elephant in the room.
    By moonpie23 in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 10-03-2022, 12:15 AM
  2. the 2000 lb elephant in the room
    By moonpie23 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 153
    Last Post: 03-25-2016, 12:17 AM
  3. Lets Not Forget
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-15-2013, 06:36 PM
  4. Lets Not Look Ahead
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-04-2012, 05:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •