The Elephant in the Room: Lets talk about Jon Scheyer

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'll note here for Mitchell, something that has to be considered, and thats the logjam at the wing positions, should he opt to return. Mitchell is actually the one guy I most want to see return (followed by Proctor), because of what he can offer our team defensively next year, as well as the versatility on the offensive end. But with Mgbako, Stewart and Power coming in, he may see the minutes getting thin and opt to go another direction.

Mitchell has shown that he can play either the 3 or 4 (I tend to like him as a college 4). Supposedly, Mgbako and Power are both versatile forwards and can play either position as well. Stewart is someone that can play the 4 or 5. I think you have roster flexibility there where you can play 3 of those 4 together at one time or have Young or Reeves as the 5 and then 2 of the others. In short, I see that as a good problem.

Even if you don't have a traditional C on the floor, a frontline of 3 guys all 6'8" would be pretty big by college standards. Heck, some NBA teams are doing that.

[lotusland]

With 13 seconds left the pass went in to an exhausted and woozy Flip. VT tied him up so he dropped the ball off to wide open Proctor for 3 with 7 seconds left. Taking the open shot was the right call. If Flip had tried to dribble to the basket out of a double team and not even gotten up a shot up, there would be even more howling about the last play. Duke really doesn’t have a Zion or Banchero like player that can take the ball and get a basket or a foul. we got off a good shot with time for a rebound and stick back. It didn’t go in and VA Tech boarded the miss. It happens when your down 2 with 13 seconds.

[bshrader]

Mitchell has shown that he can play either the 3 or 4 (I tend to like him as a college 4). Supposedly, Mgbako and Power are both versatile forwards and can play either position as well. Stewart is someone that can play the 4 or 5. I think you have roster flexibility there where you can play 3 of those 4 together at one time or have Young or Reeves as the 5 and then 2 of the others. In short, I see that as a good problem.

Even if you don't have a traditional C on the floor, a frontline of 3 guys all 6'8" would be pretty big by college standards. Heck, some NBA teams are doing that.

Completely agree that I think these guys would fit well together in terms of roster composition. But I just wonder personally if Mitchell will view it as minutes getting thinner...

[flyingdutchdevil]

With 13 seconds left the pass went in to an exhausted and woozy Flip. VT tied him up so he dropped the ball off to wide open Proctor for 3 with 7 seconds left. Taking the open shot was the right call. If Flip had tried to dribble to the basket out of a double team and not even gotten up a shot up, there would be even more howling about the last play. Duke really doesn’t have a Zion or Banchero like player that can take the ball and get a basket or a foul. we got off a good shot with time for a rebound and stick back. It didn’t go in and VA Tech boarded the miss. It happens when your down 2 with 13 seconds.

It's a good shot for a decent+ 3pt shooter. Proctor isn't that.

For all of Proctor's positives (distribution, size, defense, FT%), 3pt shooting isn't one of them. Why not drive once Proctor got the ball? Why settle for a 3 from a poor 3pt shooter?

The play was frustrating because we settled for the 3. I get they were gassed. But there are better shots than that one.

[DavidBenAkiva]

With 13 seconds left the pass went in to an exhausted and woozy Flip. VT tied him up so he dropped the ball off to wide open Proctor for 3 with 7 seconds left. Taking the open shot was the right call. If Flip had tried to dribble to the basket out of a double team and not even gotten up a shot up, there would be even more howling about the last play. Duke really doesn’t have a Zion or Banchero like player that can take the ball and get a basket or a foul. we got off a good shot with time for a rebound and stick back. It didn’t go in and VA Tech boarded the miss. It happens when your down 2 with 13 seconds.

I 100% agree with this. That was a great look by Flip and Proctor had just hit the game-tying 3. Some shots don't go in. Some do.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Completely agree that I think these guys would fit well together in terms of roster composition. But I just wonder personally if Mitchell will view it as minutes getting thinner...

He's managed to hold onto a starting spot all season and is 4th on the team in minutes this season. I think a sophomore Mitchell would enter next season feeling just fine about his projected PT at Duke.

[bshrader]

[QUOTE=DavidBenAkiva;1558003]He's managed to hold onto a starting spot all season and is 4th on the team in minutes this season. I think a sophomore Mitchell would enter next season feeling just fine about his projected PT at Duke.[/QU

Personally, I hope you're right. He's at the top of my list for returnees I want to see. But this year's roster composition doesnt seem to offer as much competition for minutes for him as next year's roster might, especially once you consider the initial Whitehead injury (and now the subsequent one). But we'll see. So much can happen between now and then.

[BigZ]

First of all, I am not convinced the struggles are mostly coaching. The team seems engaged- is fighting and are improving. But Scheyer was not handed a team that had been together- like Hubert was last year. He has one player who had significant minutes last year and a bunch of new faces to mold in a short time. That one player has been injured in the most critical part of the ACC season. His stud class seems to have one stud player and now one of the them is injured- maybe for the rest of the season. This looks to be a very bumpy ride to the end of the season. We shall see. But he will learn and perhaps get lucky that a few players will stay for next year to form a core. Every season is different. He still has a chance to get better this year and figure things out. If this team was getting blown out every game- I would be worried. But they were ahead at Clemson and ahead yesterday and just could not close the deal. That is a bit on the players to make shots and execute.

I never said it was mostly coaching and I really made this thread just to talk about Scheyer. I think it is fair that we have a thread to discuss the new 35 year old coach .

[lotusland]

It's a good shot for a decent+ 3pt shooter. Proctor isn't that.

For all of Proctor's positives (distribution, size, defense, FT%), 3pt shooting isn't one of them. Why not drive once Proctor got the ball? Why settle for a 3 from a poor 3pt shooter?

The play was frustrating because we settled for the 3. I get they were gassed. But there are better shots than that one.

Well every shot is better than the one that didn’t go in but a lot of bad can happen that results in no shot at all. We had Roach on the 3 point line across court. I don’t remember who the other two were besides those 3. Would you rather Roach or Proctor head into the lane and try to create a shot leaving no time for a rebound? Not me. The refs usually swallow their whistles at the end of the game. It’s a judgement call but I want a good shot up on the rim with time for a rebound. We got that. Proctor was 2 for 5 on threes and ended up 2-6. If we had JJ I’d run him off a double pick. If I had Laettner I’d set a pick to free him on the end bounds pass and let him take the shot. With this team I just want an open shot on the rim.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well every shot is better than the one that didn’t go in but a lot of bad can happen that results in no shot at all. We had Roach on the 3 point line across court. I don’t remember who the other two were besides those 3. Would you rather Roach or Proctor head into the lane and try to create a shot leaving no time for a rebound? Not me. The refs usually swallow their whistles at the end of the game. It’s a judgement call but I want a good shot up on the rim with time for a rebound. We got that. Proctor was 2 for 5 on threes and ended up 2-6. If we had JJ I’d run him off a double pick. If I had Laettner I’d set a pick to free him on the end bounds pass and let him take the shot. With this team I just want an open shot on the rim.

With Proctor on the 3, either of those options sounds great.

Proctor is 26% on the season. You wanna know how bad his 3pt shooting is? You mentioned he has 2-6 for the night. Others mentioned Proctor shot well. When you're starting guard shoots 33% in a game and that's considered 'good', then you have a bad shooter on your hands. Why had a bad shooter take a shot he sucks at?

[UrinalCake]

Would you rather Roach or Proctor head into the lane and try to create a shot leaving no time for a rebound? Not me.

If Flip wasn't physically able to create on that last possession then I'd prefer to have Roach with the ball in his hands to create a shot or (unlikely) dish to a teammate. At least he has some history of coming up big in clutch moments in the past. We've said all year that he is our leader and that was his moment to step up.

[DukieTiger]

All this talk about the final play on offense - it manufactured an open look, at least.

How about VT calling a timeout with 30 seconds left, gifting Duke an opportunity to make defensive subs in a tie game and *not* subbing Lively back in for Ryan Young? That’s the coaching decision that bothered me more, at the end of the game.

That being said, I’m zero percent concerned about a young coach who is learning on the job and whose team has been short-handed in most of its losses.

[lotusland]

The last play of the game made Proctor’s missed 3 pointer look really ingenious

[trinity79]

The more "chronologically gifted" among us might remember January 6, 1983, when Duke's loss to Wagner led to howls for Coach K's exit . . . and don't think for a second that other ACC teams didn't use that in recruiting against Duke.

[JayZee]

If we want to assess the head coach, can we talk about how, on an adjusted basis, Duke just put up their best offensive performance of the season? …. The team has rebounded from a low point against NC State. Is Jon doing a good job this season? I think so, but it's too early to tell. He's making adjustments. He's getting his players to play together and communicate with each other. The results will hopefully be there soon.

Great points.

Before NC State, we were playing great D, on a consistent basis. Something many of K’s recent teams couldn’t do.

We clearly laid an offensive goose egg against State. Subsequent to that game, there have been clear improvements and adjustments on the offensive side. Spacing is much better. More movement, more assists. The D has suffered a bit. But coaching is happening. Players are improving. That’s the sign of a good coach and staff.

[AZLA]

Coach S is a Grade A recruiter. Best in the business. He was hand picked by the best basketball coach/leader of all time. He’s getting the best of all these opponents looking for payback. ACC basketball is a slog! The one thing Coach K was incredible at doing was motivating different players and adapting them individually and then as a team to address the next team. He was extremely adaptive from a strategy and motivational sense to develop different aspects of the team to work as a greater whole by the end of the season. If that meant locking out players for bad performances, starting the scrubs don’t mess with C Paul’s head and beat the best team, or zero in on a weak player — by all means — he did it. If that meant getting a T — whatever it took for the situation in the moment that called for it. I’m sure Coach S applies similar but measured tactics behind the scenes, but he should be applauded for his professionalism and continuity. That being said — getting a tech,
Getting in a players face, mixing up the rotation, throwing a clipboard — might light the fire. I always appreciated when Duke might be down in the first half and Coach K would make adjustments in the locker room and the team would often storm back and dominate. I think Coach S can get there. But getting a little unpredictable from time to time might do them good.

[UrinalCake]

Would love for someone to compile a list of all the things that were said on these boards about K over the past five or so years. He won't play his bench, he doesn't teach D, he doesn't run any sets and just lets his players go iso, he refuses to play zone, etc. etc.

[CoachJ10]

With Proctor on the 3, either of those options sounds great.

Proctor is 26% on the season. You wanna know how bad his 3pt shooting is? You mentioned he has 2-6 for the night. Others mentioned Proctor shot well. When you're starting guard shoots 33% in a game and that's considered 'good', then you have a bad shooter on your hands. Why had a bad shooter take a shot he sucks at?

Virginia Tech won the game from a tough shot by a freshman who averages 3.7 ppg and shoots 35% from the floor. Designing optimal plays is one thing...having players simply make plays is another. They did, we did not.

[CameronDuke]

Bart Starr
Herm Edwards
Mike Singletary
Magic Johnson
Kevin McHale
Ted Williams
Isiah Thomas
Wayne Gretzky
Patrick Ewing
Sidney Lowe
Jeff Capel III (sorry Coach - you’re still my guy)

The list goes on. Most great coaches weren’t as good players I’d wager. Most great players that have tried to coach haven’t been as great as coaches. It’s a different skill set. Coach K was mediocre as a player and the GOAT as a coach. He played at a military academy and joined the military after instead of playing sports professionally.

We will see if Jon is an exception to this generally accepted trend. He was a great player. Will he be an equally great head coach?

[CoachJ10]

My only issue with Jon this season so far is not going to bat (so to speak) for Flip last night. A young man gets punched straight up by the opponent and there is zero consequence? That's poor form. Yes the game was still winnable, but I don't see any downside to showing your players where you stand when there is an egregious and obvious error.

I would expand on this...Jon is clearly getting bullied by the NCAA refs (as often happens to young coaches) and our team is clearly not getting our share of calls. While Jon is less "vocal" than others by nature...it is an area where I think he has grow and grow quickly.