The Elephant in the Room: Lets talk about Jon Scheyer

[CameronBornAndBred]

There was a shift right around 2000 that went from "who is the best coach this season" to "who had the bar lowered this season." It's fine if we want to do that. We have separate awards for Player of the Year and Rookie of the Year. Why not have Most Valuable Coach of the Year and Most Impressive Coach of the Year? It just seems like the ACC media is setting expectations at the beginning of the year without looking at the conference schedule and thus creating an easy narrative at the end of the season. I'm not saying Jeff Capel didn't deserve it this year. But if you look at the trend, the guys that won it didn't overcome adversity to the degree that is being implied.

I'll pin it on laziness. It's easier to vote for someone that does more than expected than it is to take the time to dig in and vote for someone that truly does the best job.

Edit...those two might be the same person, but often it's not.

[Lurkingdukedog]

I'll pin it on laziness. It's easier to vote for someone that does more than expected than it is to take the time to dig in and vote for someone that truly does the best job.

I will agree that laziness might come into it for some of the voters but I also think that there are poorly defined metrics on how the "truly best job" is determined. Hence my speculation related to the value of the award itself.

[budwom]

They act as if recruiting is not a part of coaching. Maybe rename it WHO Does Best With Bad Talent Award

[sagegrouse]

Is there a standard for "Best Actor" at the Oscars? I am happy with a more undefined selection process for COTY.

Truthfully, once the ACC expanded beyond its traditional footprint, we had lots of voters with no sense of ACC history and only an average interest in even the current season.

Didn't Michael Jordan get voted a few years ago the best player in ACC history? Or, maybe it was a nightmare I had.

[MChambers]

There was a shift right around 2000 that went from "who is the best coach this season" to "who had the bar lowered this season." It's fine if we want to do that. We have separate awards for Player of the Year and Rookie of the Year. Why not have Most Valuable Coach of the Year and Most Impressive Coach of the Year? It just seems like the ACC media is setting expectations at the beginning of the year without looking at the conference schedule and thus creating an easy narrative at the end of the season. I'm not saying Jeff Capel didn't deserve it this year. But if you look at the trend, the guys that won it didn't overcome adversity to the degree that is being implied.

Perhaps, "who saved their job?" award

[HereBeforeCoachK]

I will agree that laziness might come into it for some of the voters but I also think that there are poorly defined metrics on how the "truly best job" is determined. Hence my speculation related to the value of the award itself.

This is why I don't care much about these awards. It's so subjective. In fact, it's purely subjective.

Related, heard Charles Barkely talking about the MVP award in the NBA....made a good point...said MJ was the best player in the league 5 times before he won the MVP. "Best" and "most valuable" are not always the same thing....analogy is that "best" coach and "coach of the year" are not the same necessarily either.

[House P]

Can you imagine if player of the year awards used the same criteria as coach of the year? That is, the award goes to the player who exceeded pre-season expectation the most.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to 2019 ACC player of the year ... [drumroll] ... Jack White!

Other Duke players receiving 2019 All-ACC honors include Jordan Goldwire (3rd team All-ACC) and Alex O'Connell (honorable mention). With 2 votes, freshman sensation Zion Williamson finished 27th in All-ACC voting. Jack joins a long line of Duke players who have won the ACC player of the year award including Alaa Abdelnaby, Marty Clark, Erik Meek, Carmen Wallace, Lee Melchionni, and Marshall Plumlee.

[Bluedog]

Can you imagine if player of the year awards used the same criteria as coach of the year? That is, the award goes to the player who exceeded pre-season expectation the most.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to introduce you to 2019 ACC player of the year ... [drumroll] ... Jack White!

Other Duke players receiving 2019 All-ACC honors include Jordan Goldwire (3rd team All-ACC) and Alex O'Connell (honorable mention). With 2 votes, freshman sensation Zion Williamson finished 27th in All-ACC voting. Jack joins a long line of Duke players who have won the ACC player of the year award including Alaa Abdelnaby, Marty Clark, Erik Meek, Carmen Wallace, Lee Melchionni, and Marshall Plumlee.

Yep. There is actually a somewhat analogous award for players: most improved.

[PackMan97]

Can we please get back to this discussion of firing Scheyer...

Signed,
The rest of the ACC

[ClemmonsDevil]

Can we please get back to this discussion of firing Scheyer...

Signed,
The rest of the ACC

I'm just not sure he's tough enough. Kidding.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Can we please get back to this discussion of firing Scheyer...

Signed,
The rest of the ACC

When I need to laugh or smile this is the best place around, filled with smart, clever folks. This one really cracked me up! Sorry, I forgot to give credit to IC which also brings great joy.

[BandAlum83]

I'm just not sure he's tough enough. Kidding.

He’s just too affable to be an effective head coach at this level. That demeanor is better suited to the JUCO circuit.

[ClemmonsDevil]

He’s just too affable to be an effective head coach at this level. That demeanor is better suited to the JUCO circuit.

Hahaha! Yep.

[SOB13]

Can we please get back to this discussion of firing Scheyer...

Signed,
The rest of the ACC

This made my day

[Matches]

Shane Ryan, occasional DBR poster, goes in on Scheyer after last night's win.

@ShaneRyanHere
It was always a kind of malpractice to give the reins of a program like Duke to a guy who had never been a head coach before, but because it was Coach K's call, Duke fans en masse would never point out how idiotic it was. Too much groupthink. There's a reason Duke wanted Amaker. Buckle up, we're in for 3-5 years of the same one-and-done we've had with K for the last decade, but with worse coaching and probably worse recruiting with time. Only mystery is how long Duke waits to go against the guru and send Scheyer packing.

This thread is great reading in general, but Ryan’s rant here is the absolute prize. Not just that he was critical of Scheyer - no one is above criticism - but the condescension toward the Duke “groupthink”. “Malpractice” lol.

[SavDukeGrad]

This thread is great reading in general, but Ryan’s rant here is the absolute prize. Not just that he was critical of Scheyer - no one is above criticism - but the condescension toward the Duke “groupthink”. “Malpractice” lol.

Was that really after last night’s win? I wouldn’t have been surprised if you had said he posted that 2 months ago. But after last night? That’s really shocking. Larranaga is a great coach. And I thought Scheyer matched him last night, and made all the right moves.

Edit: Oh never mind - I see you may have resurrected that from an old post.

[Matches]

.

Edit: Oh never mind - I see you may have resurrected that from an old post.

Yea it was thread necromancy - but those tweets are still up on his account.

[Papa John]

This thread is great reading in general, but Ryan’s rant here is the absolute prize. Not just that he was critical of Scheyer - no one is above criticism - but the condescension toward the Duke “groupthink”. “Malpractice” lol.

Indeed... that Tweet didn't age well...

[wavedukefan70s]

When I need to laugh or smile this is the best place around, filled with smart, clever folks. This one really cracked me up! Sorry, I forgot to give credit to IC which also brings great joy.

It's killing them. Especially when some of thier posters give scheyer his due.saying he's better than Hubert and has out coached him in his 1sr year.
With basically a new squad .that plays D
Ofcourse with the skam on k that his teams haven't played D in 5 or 6 years.
Lol
Not ti mention the we want Stackhouse as coach.

[wavedukefan70s]

Scheyer has surprised me a little .
Once our team was healed up.
Clearly he's a better coach than was generally given credit for.
I'd say rookie coach of the year.