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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree with this post.
    Does this mean I get my second spork back???

  2. #22
    I cannot believe anyone would suggest that the coach should have made a scene and risked a technical foul to argue the non-call against Filipowski, in a 2-POINT GAME with 10 SECONDS LEFT and with Duke having the ball. That, quite frankly, is nuts. It's irrational fan behavior to want to see your coach do that. It's certainly not smart, winning coaching. The play was reviewed at the monitor - arguing the call makes no sense at that point. It's not that they missed the play, it's that they saw it and what they saw fell under the bucket of inadvertent contact. Now, the crux of the non-call is the fact that no foul was called at the moment of the play - they cannot retroactively call a common foul based on review, only a technical. So it was either going to be a flagrant 1 or nothing. Unfortunate break for Duke. Also, Filipowski was on the court for the rushed, bad shot from Proctor, so it's not like he wasn't able to play.

    If you want to grouse about this coach, it would be fair to bring up the fact that this team has been absolutely horrible at finishing games so far this season. At least 3 wins left on the table due to really ugly end-game sequences, and another couple near misses that could also have been losses (@BC, Miami). This is two games in a row that Jeremy Roach has gone to the line late for a critical 1-and-1 and missed the front end. End of game play execution has been pretty hideous throughout. THAT is an area where Scheyer's first season has been disappointing to me. Even the Proctor miss last night was too rushed - no need to take a deep shot with that much time left in a two-point game. Move the defense, open up lanes, get a good look.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.
    To be fair, Scheyer has faced an easier schedule so far. By 20 games into his first season, Coach K had played Final Four team UNC twice (due to the big four tournament), Final Four team UVa twice, at top-10 Maryland, vs top-10 Wake, and vs top-20 Tennessee at a neutral site.

    Not that I think Scheyer should be blamed for the team's struggles so far.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Chicago
    I don't think it's Jon's fault that we're not a great shooting team. Were we even an average shooting team, this thread wouldn't exist. The injuries to Whitehead, Lively and Roach have had such a massive impact on what we are that preseason expectations have to be ignored, IMO, and he should be judged on what he's actually had.

    Jon's done fine this year. He's learning, like we expected, and I think he's shown a lot of promise is a lot of areas.

    I'm less interested in how this season ends and more interested in seeing what happens this offseason with the draft and the portal and how Jon manages both to try to build a more complete, better meshing roster next year.

  5. #25
    To be fair, if Jon had popped off and lost his mind to get a tech and we had subsequently lost, I'd probably be upset too. Working from the perspective of having lost regardless likely shades my frustration.

    I find it completely reprehensible that there was no consequence to that play.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I'm dumb to get sucked into this, but the primary issue with this team isn't coaching, it's roster composition. Very odd roster as it turns out. At this point the pieces just don't fit. Will they fit tomorrow or next month? Maybe, I really have no idea.
    Having precious few upperclassmen doesn't help either.
    Exactly right. While a young and first-time coach is expected to have growing pains, coaching from a Xs and Os perspective is NOT the issue. The problem this year is that this is a poorly constituted roster that 1) lacks consistent and reliable shooting, 2) a go-to scorer (or two) who can win buckets in prime time, and 3) consistent play-making from our guards. While the roster make-up could be said to be on the coaching staff as well, how were we to know that Lively and Whitehead were to be hurt (and as a result, we think, underachieve)? I think we foresaw the shooting woes but were hopeful Grandison and Schutt would be better. Perhaps only Flip is playing better than we thought. Maybe Young too. I really appreciate more now what Wendell brought us last year - veteran leadership and stable playmaking with 40+% shooting from the arc.

    In this respect, the awkward roster is somewhat like 2021, but that team had a star who could really shoot (Hurt). There is still time for the team to gel, and it's possible the raw ingredients are there. I lament all the injuries..they happen, but also wonder what could have been.

  7. #27
    Jeremy Roach is the only returning starter from last yearsí final four team. Whitehead and Lively arenít studs in the same vein as Banchero or Zion. I never had expectations that this team would be dominant from the jump. So now weíve got an injured Roach who doesnít have transcendental freshman surrounding him to draw the opponentís attention. Shooting poorly from 3 as a freshman isnít unusual even for studs. Defending poorly as a freshman isnít unusual even for studs. The best hope for this team was always to improve gradually over the course of season. We donít know how good this team will be in March. A final four is unlikely any year. This was never going to be team Jon could plug in and watch them go. I see improvement week to week. This is the NCAA in the OAD, NIL, transfer portal era. Letís hope they earn a bid and that theyíre ready to do some damage in March.

  8. #28
    This team is hurt from a lack of veteran leadership who are experienced playing for Duke. There also isn't an offensive phenom they can rely on to get them a bucket when they need it. Forget the comparisons to K, thats a tough spot for any young coach to be in. Star ratings don't make shots, play defense, facilitate teamwork. They are a useless metric by themselves of a team's success.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Jon should have raised more of a stink about the punch but I agree with others that getting a T at that point would be counter-productive. What he needs to learn is what K mastered (and Dean was even better at) - the art of the subtle or not-so-subtle comments during the press conference - make your opinion very clear without going to the point of being suspended. I copied below his response to a question about the punch. He was given a great opening to say that the no call was BS. And he didn't take it. Talking about it during the post-game does not change what happens in the game, but it shows your team and the rest of the league that you are angry, you should be taken seriously, and this is not OK.

    On Filipowski getting hit in the throat on the last play and his mindset:
    ďI can tell you, in that play, he got hit so hard that he was throwing up in the huddle. He was full-out throwing up, and he wasnít about to be out for a second. He was ready to come back in, and we ended up drawing up the play, and put the ball in his hands and we just missed the shot. Thatís what happened right before, and heís a big-time warrior, man. Heís a competitor. He hates to lose, I thought you could see that tonight. He really put us on his back and willed us to put us in a position to win that game.Ē

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?
    First of all, I am not convinced the struggles are mostly coaching. The team seems engaged- is fighting and are improving. But Scheyer was not handed a team that had been together- like Hubert was last year. He has one player who had significant minutes last year and a bunch of new faces to mold in a short time. That one player has been injured in the most critical part of the ACC season. His stud class seems to have one stud player and now one of the them is injured- maybe for the rest of the season. This looks to be a very bumpy ride to the end of the season. We shall see. But he will learn and perhaps get lucky that a few players will stay for next year to form a core. Every season is different. He still has a chance to get better this year and figure things out. If this team was getting blown out every game- I would be worried. But they were ahead at Clemson and ahead yesterday and just could not close the deal. That is a bit on the players to make shots and execute.
    dukelifer

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Hope this isnít a jinx- he still has a tough stretch of games and needs 3 more wins to match K. He will likely do better but nothing comes easy with this teamÖ

    Edit: I see you meant his first season at Army
    No, you were right, I meant his first season at Duke. After 19 games, Coach K's first team was 11-8 (2-5 ACC). The team finished 17-13 (6-8) and missed the NCAA tournament. Coach Scheyer is doing much better than that.

    Also, while Bill Foster left us in the lurch and K had no significant recruits, Duke did return 8 of its top 10 players from an Elite Eight team. K's cupboard wasn't anywhere close to bare.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    To be fair, Scheyer has faced an easier schedule so far. By 20 games into his first season, Coach K had played Final Four team UNC twice (due to the big four tournament), Final Four team UVa twice, at top-10 Maryland, vs top-10 Wake, and vs top-20 Tennessee at a neutral site.

    Not that I think Scheyer should be blamed for the team's struggles so far.
    I'm glad you posted this. For some reason comparing K's first season or two to Scheyer's drives me nuts. Different program now, different schedule, different players and a different landscape. Definitely not apples to apples. I also agree that Scheyer deserves some time and perspective which is the intent of folks comparing the two. I just hate using the records as a way to validate patience with Scheyer.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Yep, he's coached 20 games. Time to start the vigil.
    Past is gone, thou canst not that recall; Future is not, may not be at all;
    Present is, [so] improve the flying hour; Present only is within thy power. - Friar Park Clock Tower [author unknown]

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Hope this isnít a jinx...
    As someone who knows a little something about the art of the jinx (or reverse jinx), I believe I can safely say the above was not one. Scheyer and Duke will be fine going forward.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    But Scheyer was not handed a team that had been together- like Hubert was last year.
    At this point last season, Hubert Davis's team was 13-6 (5-3 ACC) and was ranked #38 by Torvik. Duke is 14-6 (5-4) and ranked #40 by Torvik. So even with his "together" team, Hubert wasn't doing any better than Jon is now.

  16. #36
    Not much to talk about IMO. Would we all like to see Jon show a bit more fire on the sidelines and get T'd up every now and then? Probably. But we're all used to K's death stare and digging into officials for the past 40+ years. It'll come.

    Agreed on the roster composition piece that someone mentioned earlier. This team lacks a legit scoring guard or forward who can fill it up. Mitchell is a nice athletic piece, but he brings nothing to the offensive end of the court. Proctor is more of a pass-first point guard at this point. I would love if he stayed for a second year, even if that meant losing a recruit like Foster.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    I would contend that the elephant in the room isn't Scheyer. It's Krzyzewski. K will be the elephant in the Duke basketball room for many years. Living up to K standards is an elephantine undertaking.


    As far as Scheyer is concerned, I will stick with my earlier post and say that it's several years too early to rate him.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    At this point last season, Hubert Davis's team was 13-6 (5-3 ACC) and was ranked #38 by Torvik. Duke is 14-6 (5-4) and ranked #40 by Torvik. So even with his "together" team, Hubert wasn't doing any better than Jon is now.
    Yep, this is the best example of a "let's hope the team turns it around" case. Better than 2017 or 2021 or pretty much any Duke season. It's certainly possible that the team figures something out down the stretch, and 2022 UNC provides a potential blueprint.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by camion View Post
    I would contend that the elephant in the room isn't Scheyer. It's Krzyzewski. K will be the elephant in the Duke basketball room for many years. Living up to K standards is an elephantine undertaking.


    As far as Scheyer is concerned, I will stick with my earlier post and say that it's several years too early to rate him.
    Yes, the elephant in the room is most definitely the weight of expectations.

    Scheyer isn't doing anything so far to definitively suggest one way or the other whether he will succeed. But the expectations driven by past Duke success is causing it to be difficult for some to have patience.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yep, this is the best example of a "let's hope the team turns it around" case. Better than 2017 or 2021 or pretty much any Duke season. It's certainly possible that the team figures something out down the stretch, and 2022 UNC provides a potential blueprint.
    The only caveat is that UNC had guys with some experience and were not relying almost entirely on new players in their system. A bit of a difference, imho. But yes, anything can happen and we have to hope something clicks with this group over the next month or so.

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