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  1. #1

    The Elephant in the Room: Lets talk about Jon Scheyer

    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?
    I'm dumb to get sucked into this, but the primary issue with this team isn't coaching, it's roster composition. Very odd roster as it turns out. At this point the pieces just don't fit. Will they fit tomorrow or next month? Maybe, I really have no idea.
    Having precious few upperclassmen doesn't help either.

  3. #3
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    a) this is his first coaching gig. There should be struggles.

    b) he's 35 years old. There should be struggles.

    c) he's a recruiting genius, but expressing that talent on the floor is more than just great recruits and good coaching.

    d) with the talent Duke has, they arguably should be doing better. But refer to a), b), and c)

    e) Scheyer can royally eff up the season this year and Duke won't do anything (rightly so). If he underperforms after Year 2, he'll be on the hot seat. If he underperforms after Year 3, make a major decision. With the incredible talent Duke has, 3 years should be Scheyer's grace period.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

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  4. #4
    My only issue with Jon this season so far is not going to bat (so to speak) for Flip last night. A young man gets punched straight up by the opponent and there is zero consequence? That's poor form. Yes the game was still winnable, but I don't see any downside to showing your players where you stand when there is an egregious and obvious error.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    My only issue with Jon this season so far is not going to bat (so to speak) for Flip last night. A young man gets punched straight up by the opponent and there is zero consequence? That's poor form. Yes the game was still winnable, but I don't see any downside to showing your players where you stand when there is an egregious and obvious error.
    I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    On the whole, I don't believe there should be any talk about Jon this season. Or next. We have to give him time to let the chef assemble the ingredients and cook the stew. If it's horrible 3 years from now, we can talk about it. But not now.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    a) this is his first coaching gig. There should be struggles.

    b) he's 35 years old. There should be struggles.

    c) he's a recruiting genius, but expressing that talent on the floor is more than just great recruits and good coaching.

    d) with the talent Duke has, they arguably should be doing better. But refer to a), b), and c)

    e) Scheyer can royally eff up the season this year and Duke won't do anything (rightly so). If he underperforms after Year 2, he'll be on the hot seat. If he underperforms after Year 3, make a major decision. With the incredible talent Duke has, 3 years should be Scheyer's grace period.
    I agree with all of this. We need to define "underperform", but I think NCAA tournament bids are the ante.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?
    What is your opinion on this hot topic?

  7. #7
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    I'm sad that this thread needs to exist, but so it goes.

    I feel like the board has collective amnesia. Over the summer we talked so much about how we had to temper expectations for Jon's first team, that there was always going to be some sort of transition period after K, that returning only Jeremy was going to create challenges, etc. And yet, there's been so much "the sky is falling" talk on the board.

    FWIW, I thought Jon showed some immense coaching acumen last night via his halftime adjustments. He tried some interesting defenses in the first half, none of which work. So he completely changed up the way we covered screens in the second half, and our D was tremendous for most of the period. He's had some bumps, including some debatable substitution patterns (people highlighted not playing Dereck on D at the end, which was 50/50 in my mind), but he's learning on the job. We forget that he's not only a first year coach, but the youngest coach at a power conference school.

    All those things considered, combined with the craziness of the injuries, and I think Jon has done quite well for himself.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    On the whole, I don't believe there should be any talk about Jon this season. Or next. We have to give him time to let the chef assemble the ingredients and cook the stew. If it's horrible 3 years from now, we can talk about it. But not now.
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.
    Wait... You are suddenly the voice of reason? I can't keep up.

  10. #10
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.

  11. #11
    I don't think coaching is the issue. We're a young team losing close games on the road in the ACC. Kansas has now lost 3 in a row. Kentucky and unc aren't ranked. Are those coaching issues? Maybe, but more than likely not. College basketball is in a huge transition period, and the ability to win consistently is eluding many of the traditional powerhouses. I couldn't even say who the favorite is to win the natty right now towards the end of January. Hell, Duke could still win it. Could we go and nitpick Jon's decisions at certain times in losses? Sure, I'm sure he could too in that 20/20 hindsight. But all in all, I think Jon is doing just fine, especially considering the key injuries. He can't coach Jeremy into stepping up and hitting free throws at the end. That's on the player.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.
    What hurt us is that we kinda needed our only offensive threat (Flip) for that final play, but he was in severe pain trying to recover from being punched in the throat. Very unlucky timing for Duke. Luck comes and goes, hopefully we'll get that one back later in the season.

  13. #13
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    I too think it is ridiculous this thread exists, but here I am commenting in it.

    I would argue there are very few coaches today that would have Duke in the position it is in right now. If just about any other coach was on the bench - tournament hopes would already be dismissed.

    It's not Jon's coaching that is preventing players from making open perimeter shots. It's not Jon's coaching that has led to a team that is freshman dominated and nearly void of experience playing together. It's not Jon's coaching that resulted in the top 2 high school recruits' playing ability and skill out of the gate not coming close to what their ranking would indicate. It's not Jon's coaching that has led to the one returning regular to be out for extended time with an injured toe. It's not Jon's coaching that has led to injuries to two other players.

    The real "Elephant" here seems to be an extremely large gap between talent/skill reflected on paper and what actually exists on the court. That's just what Coach Scheyer has to work with.
    "Just be you. You is Enough."

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    On the whole, I don't believe there should be any talk about Jon this season. Or next. We have to give him time to let the chef assemble the ingredients and cook the stew. If it's horrible 3 years from now, we can talk about it. But not now.
    I agree on both parts. I think arguing and yelling about what is CLEARLY a referee error that absolutely may have altered the course of the game while also defending his own freshman who took a huge uppercut to the throat - it has benefits beyond a potential road victory, long term.

    And, no, we should not be considering anything about Jon other than offering a report card of some sort. But I would hesitate to even do that until the end of the season after we see where the chips fall.

    Jon's going to struggle and will make mistakes. That's all part of the process

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.
    Hope this isnít a jinx- he still has a tough stretch of games and needs 3 more wins to match K. He will likely do better but nothing comes easy with this teamÖ

    Edit: I see you meant his first season at Army

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.
    I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

  17. #17
    Iíd give him a b-minus so far. His in-game acumen is quite good; pre-game planning may need some work. Heís had to deal with a rash of injuries to key players, and I think he has struggled to establish a rotation where everyone knows their roles.

    Overall I am pleased. Itís not been a great year so far, fair to attribute some of that to coaching but not all of it. Jon will be fine. He was a good choice, has proven to be an excellent recruiter and shows promise as a teacher. Room for improvement, of course, but Iím happy so far.

  18. #18
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    I'll wait to either criticize or praise Jon Scheyer when there is a sufficient body of work to make a reasoned assessment.

    I will say that injuries have severely handicapped us so far.

    Jon's courtside demeanor has been just fine. Bitching at refs is greatly overrated as a positive tool, in my opinion.

    Edit: the thread title made me chuckle. Taking it seriously is silly.
    Man, if your Mom made you wear that color when you were a baby, and you're still wearing it, it's time to grow up!

  19. #19
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    Jon dressed nice last night.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  20. #20
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    This idea that Coach should have deliberately gone for a T to prove he had his playerís back is nuts to me. If I was on this team, which has to fight tooth and nail for tough wins, and my coach lost his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. on a no call at the end of the game, resulting in a T that made us lose, I would be be pissed at him.

    Given the fact that we have very few veteran players and that our top two recruits have been injured and otherwise limited, the current record is unsurprising. I have zero reason the believe it would be better with a different coach. The fact that the team has stuck together and fights hard speaks positively of the players and coach.

    There is just no way to know how good our coach will be anytime super soon.

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