Page 1 of 20 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 448

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    The Elephant in the Room: Lets talk about Jon Scheyer

    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?
    I'm dumb to get sucked into this, but the primary issue with this team isn't coaching, it's roster composition. Very odd roster as it turns out. At this point the pieces just don't fit. Will they fit tomorrow or next month? Maybe, I really have no idea.
    Having precious few upperclassmen doesn't help either.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    I'm dumb to get sucked into this, but the primary issue with this team isn't coaching, it's roster composition. Very odd roster as it turns out. At this point the pieces just don't fit. Will they fit tomorrow or next month? Maybe, I really have no idea.
    Having precious few upperclassmen doesn't help either.
    Exactly right. While a young and first-time coach is expected to have growing pains, coaching from a Xs and Os perspective is NOT the issue. The problem this year is that this is a poorly constituted roster that 1) lacks consistent and reliable shooting, 2) a go-to scorer (or two) who can win buckets in prime time, and 3) consistent play-making from our guards. While the roster make-up could be said to be on the coaching staff as well, how were we to know that Lively and Whitehead were to be hurt (and as a result, we think, underachieve)? I think we foresaw the shooting woes but were hopeful Grandison and Schutt would be better. Perhaps only Flip is playing better than we thought. Maybe Young too. I really appreciate more now what Wendell brought us last year - veteran leadership and stable playmaking with 40+% shooting from the arc.

    In this respect, the awkward roster is somewhat like 2021, but that team had a star who could really shoot (Hurt). There is still time for the team to gel, and it's possible the raw ingredients are there. I lament all the injuries..they happen, but also wonder what could have been.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    a) this is his first coaching gig. There should be struggles.

    b) he's 35 years old. There should be struggles.

    c) he's a recruiting genius, but expressing that talent on the floor is more than just great recruits and good coaching.

    d) with the talent Duke has, they arguably should be doing better. But refer to a), b), and c)

    e) Scheyer can royally eff up the season this year and Duke won't do anything (rightly so). If he underperforms after Year 2, he'll be on the hot seat. If he underperforms after Year 3, make a major decision. With the incredible talent Duke has, 3 years should be Scheyer's grace period.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Derm
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    a) this is his first coaching gig. There should be struggles.

    b) he's 35 years old. There should be struggles.

    c) he's a recruiting genius, but expressing that talent on the floor is more than just great recruits and good coaching.

    d) with the talent Duke has, they arguably should be doing better. But refer to a), b), and c)

    e) Scheyer can royally eff up the season this year and Duke won't do anything (rightly so). If he underperforms after Year 2, he'll be on the hot seat. If he underperforms after Year 3, make a major decision. With the incredible talent Duke has, 3 years should be Scheyer's grace period.
    I've avoided this thread until now because I could not imagine it being in any way useful. So I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I'm glad there were no Interwebs when Coach K arrived such that his greatness would have occurred at a different school.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    I concur

    Quote Originally Posted by kcduke75 View Post
    I've avoided this thread until now because I could not imagine it being in any way useful. So I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I'm glad there were no Interwebs when Coach K arrived such that his greatness would have occurred at a different school.
    Exactly. At the press conference where Duke announced Coach K's retirement and the promotion of Coach Scheyer, Coach K talked about how fortunate he was to have an athletic director (Tom Butters) who had faith in him, even through the struggles of his first several years. At one point, he looked over at Nina King and said something about how it would be good if she had the same faith in Jon Scheyer.

  7. #7
    My only issue with Jon this season so far is not going to bat (so to speak) for Flip last night. A young man gets punched straight up by the opponent and there is zero consequence? That's poor form. Yes the game was still winnable, but I don't see any downside to showing your players where you stand when there is an egregious and obvious error.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    My only issue with Jon this season so far is not going to bat (so to speak) for Flip last night. A young man gets punched straight up by the opponent and there is zero consequence? That's poor form. Yes the game was still winnable, but I don't see any downside to showing your players where you stand when there is an egregious and obvious error.
    I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    On the whole, I don't believe there should be any talk about Jon this season. Or next. We have to give him time to let the chef assemble the ingredients and cook the stew. If it's horrible 3 years from now, we can talk about it. But not now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    a) this is his first coaching gig. There should be struggles.

    b) he's 35 years old. There should be struggles.

    c) he's a recruiting genius, but expressing that talent on the floor is more than just great recruits and good coaching.

    d) with the talent Duke has, they arguably should be doing better. But refer to a), b), and c)

    e) Scheyer can royally eff up the season this year and Duke won't do anything (rightly so). If he underperforms after Year 2, he'll be on the hot seat. If he underperforms after Year 3, make a major decision. With the incredible talent Duke has, 3 years should be Scheyer's grace period.
    I agree with all of this. We need to define "underperform", but I think NCAA tournament bids are the ante.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigZ View Post
    The purpose of this thread isn't to bash him but with the struggles of the team especially closing out games we have to talk about coaching. It shouldn't shocking anyone that a young coach with a young team would have struggles but how much is n Jon now?
    What is your opinion on this hot topic?

  10. #10
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    I'm sad that this thread needs to exist, but so it goes.

    I feel like the board has collective amnesia. Over the summer we talked so much about how we had to temper expectations for Jon's first team, that there was always going to be some sort of transition period after K, that returning only Jeremy was going to create challenges, etc. And yet, there's been so much "the sky is falling" talk on the board.

    FWIW, I thought Jon showed some immense coaching acumen last night via his halftime adjustments. He tried some interesting defenses in the first half, none of which work. So he completely changed up the way we covered screens in the second half, and our D was tremendous for most of the period. He's had some bumps, including some debatable substitution patterns (people highlighted not playing Dereck on D at the end, which was 50/50 in my mind), but he's learning on the job. We forget that he's not only a first year coach, but the youngest coach at a power conference school.

    All those things considered, combined with the craziness of the injuries, and I think Jon has done quite well for himself.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I'm sad that this thread needs to exist, but so it goes.

    I feel like the board has collective amnesia. Over the summer we talked so much about how we had to temper expectations for Jon's first team, that there was always going to be some sort of transition period after K, that returning only Jeremy was going to create challenges, etc. And yet, there's been so much "the sky is falling" talk on the board.

    FWIW, I thought Jon showed some immense coaching acumen last night via his halftime adjustments. He tried some interesting defenses in the first half, none of which work. So he completely changed up the way we covered screens in the second half, and our D was tremendous for most of the period. He's had some bumps, including some debatable substitution patterns (people highlighted not playing Dereck on D at the end, which was 50/50 in my mind), but he's learning on the job. We forget that he's not only a first year coach, but the youngest coach at a power conference school.

    All those things considered, combined with the craziness of the injuries, and I think Jon has done quite well for himself.
    I don't think it's sad at all. While it certainly does make our fanbase seem entitled and impatient (and we are both), it also shows we care about the program.

    We got spoiled for ~40 years with K. We are now in this realm of uncertainty with a new coach. The only thing we know about this new coach is he can recruit.

    Asking questions about Jon's coaching effectiveness is fine, IMO. Asking if he is the right person for the job is also fine, as long as you take into consideration his experience. Asking for his head - 9 months into the job - is not fine.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

    On the whole, I don't believe there should be any talk about Jon this season. Or next. We have to give him time to let the chef assemble the ingredients and cook the stew. If it's horrible 3 years from now, we can talk about it. But not now.
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bshrader View Post
    Jon wasn't going to pick up a tech there with the game still in the balance. And I don't believe Jon wanted to waste time refuting the no-call cause he needed that time to try and draw up a game-tying play.
    Wait... You are suddenly the voice of reason? I can't keep up.

  14. #14
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.
    Hope this isnít a jinx- he still has a tough stretch of games and needs 3 more wins to match K. He will likely do better but nothing comes easy with this teamÖ

    Edit: I see you meant his first season at Army

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Hope this isnít a jinx- he still has a tough stretch of games and needs 3 more wins to match K. He will likely do better but nothing comes easy with this teamÖ

    Edit: I see you meant his first season at Army
    No, you were right, I meant his first season at Duke. After 19 games, Coach K's first team was 11-8 (2-5 ACC). The team finished 17-13 (6-8) and missed the NCAA tournament. Coach Scheyer is doing much better than that.

    Also, while Bill Foster left us in the lurch and K had no significant recruits, Duke did return 8 of its top 10 players from an Elite Eight team. K's cupboard wasn't anywhere close to bare.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    Hope this isnít a jinx...
    As someone who knows a little something about the art of the jinx (or reverse jinx), I believe I can safely say the above was not one. Scheyer and Duke will be fine going forward.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    He's doing better than his predecessor did in his first season.
    To be fair, Scheyer has faced an easier schedule so far. By 20 games into his first season, Coach K had played Final Four team UNC twice (due to the big four tournament), Final Four team UVa twice, at top-10 Maryland, vs top-10 Wake, and vs top-20 Tennessee at a neutral site.

    Not that I think Scheyer should be blamed for the team's struggles so far.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    To be fair, Scheyer has faced an easier schedule so far. By 20 games into his first season, Coach K had played Final Four team UNC twice (due to the big four tournament), Final Four team UVa twice, at top-10 Maryland, vs top-10 Wake, and vs top-20 Tennessee at a neutral site.

    Not that I think Scheyer should be blamed for the team's struggles so far.
    I'm glad you posted this. For some reason comparing K's first season or two to Scheyer's drives me nuts. Different program now, different schedule, different players and a different landscape. Definitely not apples to apples. I also agree that Scheyer deserves some time and perspective which is the intent of folks comparing the two. I just hate using the records as a way to validate patience with Scheyer.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Yep, he's coached 20 games. Time to start the vigil.
    Past is gone, thou canst not that recall; Future is not, may not be at all;
    Present is, [so] improve the flying hour; Present only is within thy power. - Friar Park Clock Tower [author unknown]

Similar Threads

  1. Tua and the elephant in the room.
    By moonpie23 in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 10-03-2022, 12:15 AM
  2. the 2000 lb elephant in the room
    By moonpie23 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 153
    Last Post: 03-25-2016, 12:17 AM
  3. Lets Not Forget
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-15-2013, 06:36 PM
  4. Lets Not Look Ahead
    By SoCalDukeFan in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-04-2012, 05:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •