Dereck Lively II

[rsvman]

Bennett never looked very good in college. Not sure why he went so high.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I think the Lively-to-Giles comparison doesn't hold water. Giles was ranked #1 assuming he had 1 good knee, and he came to Duke with two bad knees. A one-knee Giles is very likely a starter and a very solid contributor. Giles lack of impact as a freshman was due to injuries, not lack of adjustment to the college game.

Lively came to Duke with the reputation of an elite defender with an okay 3pt shots and significant rim-running potential. I think the defensive reputation is there, at least with the stats, but scouts whiffed on the offensive impact/potential. And if you're a top 3 recruit without any offensive chops, you're gonna look really bad.

The analogy for me is Anthony Bennett and Greg Oden. Two #1 picks, two players considered busts. Anthony Bennett was just a horrible selection who's game didn't translate to the NBA (like Lively); Greg Oden had injury after injury after injury; his NBA career didn't stand a chance because of those injuries (like Giles).

How can you compare Lively to Greg Oden? Oden was a 2007 All American, led OSU to the NCAA Championship game, and was National Defensive POY. Doubtful that Lively will achieve that level at Duke.

[flyingdutchdevil]

How can you compare Lively to Greg Oden? Oden was a 2007 All American, led OSU to the NCAA Championship game, and was National Defensive POY. Doubtful that Lively will achieve that level at Duke.

Not sure you’re reading my post correctly.

[szstark]

You mean the guy who transferred away from Duke due to likely lack of 5-year senior playing time?

Or the guy who's under a new coach with a much larger rotation philosophy and whose backcourt teammates are underperforming?

These aren't the best counter-examples. Grayson Allen and Wendell Moore would be much better counter-examples.

You mean the Grayson Allen who was starting his sophomore year? Not a good example for your counter argument. Wendell Moore is a much better example, but he, of course, runs counter to your original argument about non-OADs being ignored rather than developed. Not exactly sure where you are trying to go with this?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How can you compare Lively to Greg Oden? Oden was a 2007 All American, led OSU to the NCAA Championship game, and was National Defensive POY. Doubtful that Lively will achieve that level at Duke.

Yeah. He specifically didn't compare him to Oden.

[House P]

Agreed it was a strange group. Vrank was always a project though and Javin was a FR (also had injuries that year). Jeter (who also had an injury) was really battling with Bolden and Giles for PT (or Amile when we played a small lineup).

Fair point about Chase's real competition being Giles and Bolden (and to a lesser degree Javin). I only listed Vrank because it was a bit odd that the 5th post player off the bench (Vrank) ended up with more minutes than the 2nd non-post player (Jack White).



Can you imagine what scrimmages were like on the few occasions when the team was at full strength?

Coach K: "OK, Grayson, Luke, Jayson, Matt and Amile put on your white jerseys."

Coach Capel: "Who are we going to have on the blue team?"

Coach K: "Let's have Frank run the point. Harry and Marques can play the 4 and 5, even though we don't have positions. Hmmmm, Jack why don't you try and guard Luke. All right, let's go!"

Coach Capel: "Coach, that's only 9 guys, we need someone else in the backcourt."

Coach K: "Good catch. Who are our next best players?"

Coach Capel: "Chase and Javin."

Coach K: "Do we have anyone left under 6-10?"

Coach Capel: "Well, we've got two walk-ons and David Robinson's son."

Coach K: "How is it possible that David Robinson's son is only 6-9?"

Coach Capel: "I think it has something to do with regression to the mean, but that's not really my area of expertise."

Coach K: "Are we allowed to run Scheyer or Nolan out there?"

Coach Capel: "I'll have to check with compliance. In the meantime, we still need a 10th guy."

Coach K: "I don't care. I am only going play 6 or 7 guys when it matters. Pick the last guy however you want."

Coach Capel (to the remaining players): "Ok guys, pick a number between 1 and 100."

Chase: "I'll pick 5!"

Coach Capel: "You got it. How did you know?"

Chase: "Every time we do this, you choose your old uniform number."

Coach Capel: "That's very perceptive of you. No go out there and guard Grayson!!!"

[dukelifer]

I think the Lively-to-Giles comparison doesn't hold water. Giles was ranked #1 assuming he had 1 good knee, and he came to Duke with two bad knees. A one-knee Giles is very likely a starter and a very solid contributor. Giles lack of impact as a freshman was due to injuries, not lack of adjustment to the college game.

Lively came to Duke with the reputation of an elite defender with an okay 3pt shots and significant rim-running potential. I think the defensive reputation is there, at least with the stats, but scouts whiffed on the offensive impact/potential. And if you're a top 3 recruit without any offensive chops, you're gonna look really bad.

The analogy for me is Anthony Bennett and Greg Oden. Two #1 picks, two players considered busts. Anthony Bennett was just a horrible selection who's game didn't translate to the NBA (like Lively); Greg Oden had injury after injury after injury; his NBA career didn't stand a chance because of those injuries (like Giles).

If Lively plays like Oden and Bennett did in college- Duke will have a great season.

[LasVegas]

Yeah. He specifically didn't compare him to Oden.

But he was compared to Bennett who averaged 16 and 8 at UNLV. Lively puts up that and we are in some excellent shape.

[dukelifer]

But he was compared to Bennett who averaged 16 and 8 at UNLV. Lively puts up that and we are in some excellent shape.

Even if he plays like Stetson Bennett- Geez

[mattyoung18]

Lively was a little overrated to begin.Hes not very big.He needs to add some strength so he can play with the big boys maybe develop a 10 15 ft jumper.

[sick delta buddies]

I think the Lively-to-Giles comparison doesn't hold water. Giles was ranked #1 assuming he had 1 good knee, and he came to Duke with two bad knees. A one-knee Giles is very likely a starter and a very solid contributor. Giles lack of impact as a freshman was due to injuries, not lack of adjustment to the college game.

Lively came to Duke with the reputation of an elite defender with an okay 3pt shots and significant rim-running potential. I think the defensive reputation is there, at least with the stats, but scouts whiffed on the offensive impact/potential. And if you're a top 3 recruit without any offensive chops, you're gonna look really bad.

The analogy for me is Anthony Bennett and Greg Oden. Two #1 picks, two players considered busts. Anthony Bennett was just a horrible selection who's game didn't translate to the NBA (like Lively); Greg Oden had injury after injury after injury; his NBA career didn't stand a chance because of those injuries (like Giles).

A better comparison at this point is Nerlens Noel. A top 2 recruit considered to be an elite defender and athlete with little to no offensive game. I’m hoping the coaches and team can find a way to utilize his skills as he will be needed if the team is going to make any type of postseason run.

[Dr. Maturin]

I went back and watched some of the Xavier game. That's one that looks really good in retrospect as Xavier has the #7 offense in Kenpom. We have been the only team to hold them under 1 PPP despite Xavier hitting 40% of their 3s and 90% of the FT in that game.

In the first 10 minutes, Lively blocked two shots, forced a turnover by causing Nunge to travel, had a nice putback bucket, and made a tough catch on a pick and roll action (unfortunately he missed both FT). After a tough game against Purdue, Lively seemed to be making more of an impact, with games of 11, 8, and 8 points. Against a good Ohio State team, he had 11 points, 2 blocks, and a steal. Unfortunately, his illness seemed to have stalled his progression. After missing the Wake game, he's played just 12 mpg with 1 made basket in 3 games. He does have 4 blocks during that period, which is pretty good given the limited minutes.

I know we all probably expected more from his season. Ultimately, he probably was overranked, but that's not Dereck's fault. He seems like a good guy who plays hard for Duke basketball, and I'm not giving up on him.

[Southgate0809]

What if we had Young and Lively on the court at the same time? Maybe Young could be effective at setting up Lively to score. There would certainly be times where that lineup wouldn't work defensively, but I'd be curious what happened on offense.

[DukieInBrasil]

Even if he plays like Stetson Bennett- Geez

If Lively start running for TDs and passing for TDs Duke will be in great shape for the FootBasket Tournament.

[johnb]

It strikes me that Lively is an enthusiastic teammate who is working hard. He didn't vote himself the best prospect in the class, and I don't recall him trying to lord that over anybody. He's our guy, and I (like many of you) try not to disparage our guys who are putting forth their best effort.

We now know his baseline. It'll be interesting to see how he grows over the next few months.

[MChambers]

It strikes me that Lively is an enthusiastic teammate who is working hard. He didn't vote himself the best prospect in the class, and I don't recall him trying to lord that over anybody. He's our guy, and I (like many of you) try not to disparage our guys who are putting forth their best effort.

We now know his baseline. It'll be interesting to see how he grows over the next few months.

Great post.

[cbolden1]

Great post.

We won't see the best of lively on Offense because we don't have a great playmaker who can set him up with easy looks. I would argue our best playmakers are prob our 2 other bigs which I think is kind od alarming seeing as we have a junior pg who was suppose to be that guy to get everyone easy looks

[budwom]

It strikes me that Lively is an enthusiastic teammate who is working hard. He didn't vote himself the best prospect in the class, and I don't recall him trying to lord that over anybody. He's our guy, and I (like many of you) try not to disparage our guys who are putting forth their best effort.

We now know his baseline. It'll be interesting to see how he grows over the next few months.

Not to mention next few years. Really difficult to project how this is going to go for him.

[Alan_Wilson]

We won't see the best of lively on Offense because we don't have a great playmaker who can set him up with easy looks. I would argue our best playmakers are prob our 2 other bigs which I think is kind od alarming seeing as we have a junior pg who was suppose to be that guy to get everyone easy looks

This. THis all day.

Lively is hardly the first offensively limited, athletic big. Traditionally, players like him have relied on dribble penetration for easy baskets like lobs. We don't have that, although Roach, if/when healthy, should be that distributor. However, this was not a point of emphasis pre-injury.

[JasonEvans]

Have yourself a game young fella!!

And this may have been the play of the game --