Dereck Lively II

[Steven43]

With his measurables- he is going first round and into a development program. He could pay dividends in 2-3 years or not get renewed.

A James Wiseman-like NBA impact?

[CasualObserver]

I agree that he seems to have a great attitude, staying engaged and cheering even when on the bench.

I think his biggest problem is strength. He just looks overmatched inside. And it shows up most in his challenges rebounding.

I believe that is it. Watching the Duke games so far, the less-tall, but bulkier 5s and 4s get rebounds from Duke by muscling and positioning. That’s why Ryan Young is more effective. He’s got a lower center of gravity, more width and more experience feeling the body push and resisting it. Whatever Duke coach is supposed to work with the 5s needs to work more on positioning and boxing out. Whatever strength/nutrition coach Duke has needs to increase Lively’s caloric intake.

[dukebluesincebirth]

I understand what has been said about Lively’s game and its limitations. I’m still completely baffled as to how multiple professional basketball scouts ranked him as the #1 high school player in America. I knew it was a weak class, but I had no clue it was THAT weak. Elite defense?? Was that against JV teams or what? There’s nothing elite about this guy in any way whatsoever. I do agree he’s not in jalen Johnson territory because he hasn’t quit.

[weezie]

I hate to see this thread go on for so long but I understand. I will say, he's an very polite young man.
Saw him in Durm on New Year's Eve and he was personable and chatted briefly with me. He appreciates support and thanked me for the encouragement. And, man alive, he is tall and quite thin.

[Dukehk]

I guess the silver lining is that we might be getting one or two of them back next year.

Insane if he actually went pro with the state of him now.

[kshepinthehouse]

I guess the silver lining is that we might be getting one or two of them back next year.

Insane if he actually went pro with the state of him now.

Never insane if you get drafted in the first round

[sagegrouse]

I guess the silver lining is that we might be getting one or two of them back next year.

Insane if he actually went pro with the state of him now.

We are playing nine players. Not all will be stars.

Lessee...

Lively is a disappointment to many.

Proctor looks quite young and not as far along as we would like.

Grandison has not shown the productivity he had with the Illini.

OTOH...

Flip has largely exceeded expectations and is a fierce competitor.

Mitchell has been a revelation.

Blakes was written off by many, but has been a good contributor.

Whitehead is beginning to justify his high ranking.

Young has far exceeded expectations and become a cog of the team.

Roach? I hope his toe heals soon.

[AZLA]

While I will agree that I had hoped for more out of Lively, I will tell you things about him that I really like. He is always engaged in the game. He plays hard. He seems to enjoy playing. He seems like a good teammate who understands that basketball is a team sport. He is tall. He can jump well. He plays hard on defense.

For these reasons, he is not and will not be a Jalen Johnson. The comparison is insulting to Lively, in my opinion.

Good points. Good attitude but… For me he sometimes he looks lost and out of position for rebounds. His passing frankly sucks. These are simple fundamentals that can be easily improved. Honestly it must be boring being the nations #1 recruit to sub in for a spell jog up and down the court and watch everyone play, then throw a lousy pass, or get out muscled or positioned for a rebound and get subbed out for a grad student. Seriously, wake the bleep up demand the ball and start getting mean and fight for your team and your draft rank and career. Keep the good attitude but come on…. enough is enough… put on your warrior paint.

[MChambers]

Good points. Good attitude but… For me he sometimes he looks lost and out of position for rebounds. His passing frankly sucks. These are simple fundamentals that can be easily improved. Honestly it must be boring being the nations #1 recruit to sub in for a spell jog up and down the court and watch everyone play, then throw a lousy pass, or get out muscled or positioned for a rebound and get subbed out for a grad student. Seriously, wake the bleep up demand the ball and start getting mean and fight for your team and your draft rank and career. Keep the good attitude but come on…. enough is enough… put on your warrior paint.

Earlier in the season, he had some great passes. Not sure why he's struggling now.

[sick delta buddies]

I felt like it was starting to come together for him before the holiday break when had a double digit and a couple of 8 point games as well. Sadly since the layoff he hasn’t produced to the point that it looks as if the coaching staff has lost faith in him. In addition to losing his starting spot he played about 10-12 minutes yesterday and managed 1 fg attempt and 0 rebs. We can’t expect a Mark Williams level of improvement during one season but hopefully he can become a contributor by tourney time.

[dukelifer]

Earlier in the season, he had some great passes. Not sure why he's struggling now.

We all forget how much of sports at this level is mental. He knows all eyes are on him and he knows that he is not playing like the number 1 player in his class. He is pressing and struggling.

[MChambers]

We all forget how much of sports at this level is mental. He knows all eyes are on him and he knows that he is not playing like the number 1 player in his class. He is pressing and struggling.

90% of it is half mental, as I recall.

Seriously, then we should expect him to snap out of it soon.

[Kedsy]

Elite defense?? Was that against JV teams or what? There’s nothing elite about this guy in any way whatsoever.

Lively's defensive rating is #3 in the ACC. His block percentage is #1 in the ACC (#8 in the country). His defensive box plus-minus would be #5 in the country, if he had enough minutes to qualify.

Here are the advanced defensive stats for selected recent strong Duke defensive players:

Player				dRating	dws/40	DBPM	stl%	blk%	DR%	pf/40
Dereck Lively '23		88.8	0.105	6.8	2.4	12.2	12.9	6.1
Zion Williamson '19		87.4	0.113	6.7	3.9	5.8	18.0	2.7
Brian Zoubek '10		85.5	0.113		2.2	4.0	24.6	7.4
Javin DeLaurier '19		88.8	0.104	6.5	2.9	7.9	16.3	6.5
Javin DeLaurier '20		88.2	0.098	5.5	2.5	6.0	19.0	6.8
Jordan Goldwire '20		94.3	0.075	5.1	3.4	0.6	8.4	2.6
Mark Williams '22		93.2	0.087	4.8	1.2	11.4	21.2	3.5
Marques Bolden '19		93.1	0.090	4.7	1.6	8.5	13.3	4.4
Justise Winslow '15		92.8	0.088	4.6	2.8	2.9	19.8	3.8
Tre Jones '19			96.7	0.075	4.2	3.0	0.5	8.4	1.8
Jordan Goldwire '21		101.6	0.053	4.2	4.5	0.3	8.8	3.0
Ryan Kelly '13			96.5	0.066	4.0	1.4	5.4	15.4	3.3
Mark Williams '21		97.4	0.091	3.7	2.2	9.6	20.0	3.9
Mason Plumlee '13		92.2	0.083	3.6	1.7	4.0	25.1	2.9
Cam Reddish '19			95.1	0.082	3.2	2.9	1.9	10.7	3.2
Tre Jones '20			94.6	0.078	3.1	2.8	0.9	10.8	2.0
Kyle Filipowski '23		88.6	0.111	2.8	2.8	3.2	25.3	3.5
Wendell Moore '22		101.2	0.057	2.6	2.4	0.6	12.5	1.9
RJ Barrett '19			95.9	0.081	2.1	1.4	1.2	17.2	2.1

Dereck's defensive rebounding and fouling could use improvement, but overall I think he stacks up pretty well. If Duke has had any elite defenders in recent years, you kind of have to say Lively qualifies. He certainly doesn't deserve your derisive tone.

[dukelifer]

Lively's defensive rating is #3 in the ACC. His block percentage is #1 in the ACC (#8 in the country). His defensive box plus-minus would be #5 in the country, if he had enough minutes to qualify.

Here are the advanced defensive stats for selected recent strong Duke defensive players:

Player				dRating	dws/40	DBPM	stl%	blk%	DR%	pf/40
Dereck Lively '23		88.8	0.105	6.8	2.4	12.2	12.9	6.1
Zion Williamson '19		87.4	0.113	6.7	3.9	5.8	18.0	2.7
Brian Zoubek '10		85.5	0.113		2.2	4.0	24.6	7.4
Javin DeLaurier '19		88.8	0.104	6.5	2.9	7.9	16.3	6.5
Javin DeLaurier '20		88.2	0.098	5.5	2.5	6.0	19.0	6.8
Jordan Goldwire '20		94.3	0.075	5.1	3.4	0.6	8.4	2.6
Mark Williams '22		93.2	0.087	4.8	1.2	11.4	21.2	3.5
Marques Bolden '19		93.1	0.090	4.7	1.6	8.5	13.3	4.4
Justise Winslow '15		92.8	0.088	4.6	2.8	2.9	19.8	3.8
Tre Jones '19			96.7	0.075	4.2	3.0	0.5	8.4	1.8
Jordan Goldwire '21		101.6	0.053	4.2	4.5	0.3	8.8	3.0
Ryan Kelly '13			96.5	0.066	4.0	1.4	5.4	15.4	3.3
Mark Williams '21		97.4	0.091	3.7	2.2	9.6	20.0	3.9
Mason Plumlee '13		92.2	0.083	3.6	1.7	4.0	25.1	2.9
Cam Reddish '19			95.1	0.082	3.2	2.9	1.9	10.7	3.2
Tre Jones '20			94.6	0.078	3.1	2.8	0.9	10.8	2.0
Kyle Filipowski '23		88.6	0.111	2.8	2.8	3.2	25.3	3.5
Wendell Moore '22		101.2	0.057	2.6	2.4	0.6	12.5	1.9
RJ Barrett '19			95.9	0.081	2.1	1.4	1.2	17.2	2.1

Dereck's defensive rebounding and fouling could use improvement, but overall I think he stacks up pretty well. If Duke has had any elite defenders in recent years, you kind of have to say Lively qualifies. He certainly doesn't deserve your derisive tone.

What is it in ACC play? Is this a case where a single stat doesn’t tell the entire story of a player’s impact on the game? I certainly don’t feel his impact on D is anything close to Mark Williams last year.

[rsvman]

I agree with Kedsy.

Maybe I am being a bit too nice, but put yourself in his shoes and think about how difficult his current situation must be. Can you imagine being rated number one and then finding yourself playing behind a grad student transfer that many praise for having old man YMCA moves?

How humiliating that must feel! I know that when I was his age, I would not have taken it anywhere near as well as he appears to be taking it. It would be really easy for a person in his position to just hang it up, at least mentally. It would be easy to say to oneself, 'whatever... this stuff doesn't even matter... I'm gonna go to the NBA and make a ton of money...'

Instead, he has continued to be a good teammate and has even been supporting Ryan, at least as far as I can tell. That takes an awful lot of maturity, something I was definitely lacking when like was his age, and humility, something that is often missing in young people who are athletically gifted.

[miramar]

I’m surprised that Lively is listed at 7-1/230 and Filipowski at 7-0/230. To me Filipowski looks significantly bigger and stronger, while Lively seems rather thin in comparison to a guy who apparently weighs the same.

[dlmzzz]

What is it in ACC play? Is this a case where a single stat doesn’t tell the entire story of a player’s impact on the game? I certainly don’t feel his impact on D is anything close to Mark Williams last year.

I assume by "impact on D", you mean the look of terror on the face of people stuck in the lane, and the number of players that drove into the lane, said "Nope", and turned around when Mark W was in there.

It looks to me like players are trying shots from the lane against Dereck more than they did against Mark. Maybe because they know he is fairly likely to foul them, maybe because they know he is not as likely to get the rebound, or maybe there is just not the same buzz about his shotblocking.

But the stats say that it's an even worse idea.

[sagegrouse]

Good points. Good attitude but… For me he sometimes he looks lost and out of position for rebounds. His passing frankly sucks. These are simple fundamentals that can be easily improved. Honestly it must be boring being the nations #1 recruit to sub in for a spell jog up and down the court and watch everyone play, then throw a lousy pass, or get out muscled or positioned for a rebound and get subbed out for a grad student. Seriously, wake the bleep up demand the ball and start getting mean and fight for your team and your draft rank and career. Keep the good attitude but come on…. enough is enough… put on your warrior paint.

Rather nasty post for a Blue Devil fan.

[dukelifer]

I’m surprised that Lively is listed at 7-1/230 and Filipowski at 7-0/230. To me Filipowski looks significantly bigger and stronger, while Lively seems rather thin in comparison to a guy who apparently weighs the same.

Flip is probably not that tall

[sagegrouse]

I’m surprised that Lively is listed at 7-1/230 and Filipowski at 7-0/230. To me Filipowski looks significantly bigger and stronger, while Lively seems rather thin in comparison to a guy who apparently weighs the same.

The numbers have always seemed to me to be a form of "coach speak." Seriously, Duke is not going to list a player at 7-1, 210 lbs., or whatever -- it just makes him even more of a target to be pushed around.