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  1. #321

    Scattered Thoughts

    First off, I feel like someone should go change the thread title here to "Random Music Appreciation Discussion" or something, 'cause we're a loooooong way from the original (ridiculous) question of whether Aerosmith or The Eagles were the "best American rock n' roll band" or whatever. [Personal opinions: Aerosmith's currently a bit overmaligned by anyone younger than about 50 who mostly associates them with their late '80's - early '90's or beyond output, which sucks. They may have been a bit derivative but they rocked pretty hard in the early days. Eagles were overrated, then overmaligned (thank you, Jeff Bridges), now somehow feel underappreciated, although as many have pointed out they weren't by most definitions really a rock band (that said, I haven't found anyone who could even start convincing me that "Hotel California" is not an absolute pantheon level rock and roll song)].

    Love the appreciation Wilco's been getting throughout the discussion here. YHF was the first "important" American album post-9/11 (literally released a week after) and had a huge impact on any Gen X'ers who were at all inclined towards alt-country. It's also flanked by two masterpieces (not even counting Mermaid Avenue). When Uncle Tupelo broke up and Jay Farrar came right out of the box with Trace while Wilco gave us A.M. I was very certain Son Volt was going to be the more successful and important of the two. Ha!

    Finally, since every discussion of great bands, even this one which was very explicitly supposed to be only about American bands, leads invariably to the triumvirate of Beatles/Stones/Zep and goes from there, I have a question:

    Why is it that so many of the "best" bands are/were English, while almost all of the "best" dudes with a backing band formula entries are American? There are exceptions to both generalities, yes. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Allmans, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Talking Heads, CCR, etc. are in the same tier as the holy trinity I mentioned above, who are all British (as were the Who, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, etc.). And the list of British solo artists just can't even sit in the same room as Springsteen, Prince, Petty, Hendrix, Dylan, Elvis (if we extend that far backward), and on and on. You have to give them Ireland just to have one guy in the same league as Bruce and the other top tier acts. Why is this?

    Corollary question, that's probably been covered by plenty of rock writers and anthropologists, but why is it that England, with a population less than 1/6 of ours, has produced such an obscene amount of what's considered one of the quintessential American music forms? I mean, it's really extraordinary. They've given us like half of rock 'n roll.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Travel safe!

    I’m a fan of Mother’s but there are plenty of less famous places with probably better food (zig ain’t fine dining — just good). https://www.mothersrestaurant.net/
    I’ll definitely check out Mother’s; that’s my kind of food. ✅

    Thanks for the tip!

  3. #323
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I’ll definitely check out Mother’s; that’s my kind of food. ✅

    Thanks for the tip!
    Uptown I like Frankie and Johnny's; casual bar atmosphere, really good shrimp po-boy. If you want upscale and really delicious, go to Commander's Palace for brunch. Pascal's Manale is an institution and their "barbecued shrimp" are legendary (also uptown).

    For Italian gelato and Italian desserts, Angelo Brocato on North Carrollton Avenue is the bomb.

    Oh, almost forgot the Palace Cafe at 605 Canal Street; every variety of amazing eggs benedict.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Uptown I like Frankie and Johnny's; casual bar atmosphere, really good shrimp po-boy. If you want upscale and really delicious, go to Commander's Palace for brunch. Pascal's Manale is an institution and their "barbecued shrimp" are legendary (also uptown).

    For Italian gelato and Italian desserts, Angelo Brocato on North Carrollton Avenue is the bomb.

    Oh, almost forgot the Palace Cafe at 605 Canal Street; every variety of amazing eggs benedict.
    You’re speaking my language, rev! All of those suggestions sound great. 👍

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Finally, since every discussion of great bands, even this one which was very explicitly supposed to be only about American bands, leads invariably to the triumvirate of Beatles/Stones/Zep and goes from there, I have a question:

    Why is it that so many of the "best" bands are/were English, while almost all of the "best" dudes with a backing band formula entries are American? There are exceptions to both generalities, yes. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Allmans, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Talking Heads, CCR, etc. are in the same tier as the holy trinity I mentioned above, who are all British (as were the Who, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, etc.). And the list of British solo artists just can't even sit in the same room as Springsteen, Prince, Petty, Hendrix, Dylan, Elvis (if we extend that far backward), and on and on. You have to give them Ireland just to have one guy in the same league as Bruce and the other top tier acts. Why is this?

    Corollary question, that's probably been covered by plenty of rock writers and anthropologists, but why is it that England, with a population less than 1/6 of ours, has produced such an obscene amount of what's considered one of the quintessential American music forms? I mean, it's really extraordinary. They've given us like half of rock 'n roll.
    I have often wondered the exact same things, especially the issue of why so many of the all-time great bands are from England. It’s really quite astounding and mystifying.

    And I have no answers. 🤷

  6. #326
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    First off, I feel like someone should go change the thread title here to "Random Music Appreciation Discussion" or something, 'cause we're a loooooong way from the original (ridiculous) question of whether Aerosmith or The Eagles were the "best American rock n' roll band" or whatever. [Personal opinions: Aerosmith's currently a bit overmaligned by anyone younger than about 50 who mostly associates them with their late '80's - early '90's or beyond output, which sucks. They may have been a bit derivative but they rocked pretty hard in the early days. Eagles were overrated, then overmaligned (thank you, Jeff Bridges), now somehow feel underappreciated, although as many have pointed out they weren't by most definitions really a rock band (that said, I haven't found anyone who could even start convincing me that "Hotel California" is not an absolute pantheon level rock and roll song)].

    Love the appreciation Wilco's been getting throughout the discussion here. YHF was the first "important" American album post-9/11 (literally released a week after) and had a huge impact on any Gen X'ers who were at all inclined towards alt-country. It's also flanked by two masterpieces (not even counting Mermaid Avenue). When Uncle Tupelo broke up and Jay Farrar came right out of the box with Trace while Wilco gave us A.M. I was very certain Son Volt was going to be the more successful and important of the two. Ha!

    Finally, since every discussion of great bands, even this one which was very explicitly supposed to be only about American bands, leads invariably to the triumvirate of Beatles/Stones/Zep and goes from there, I have a question:

    Why is it that so many of the "best" bands are/were English, while almost all of the "best" dudes with a backing band formula entries are American? There are exceptions to both generalities, yes. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Allmans, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Talking Heads, CCR, etc. are in the same tier as the holy trinity I mentioned above, who are all British (as were the Who, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, etc.). And the list of British solo artists just can't even sit in the same room as Springsteen, Prince, Petty, Hendrix, Dylan, Elvis (if we extend that far backward), and on and on. You have to give them Ireland just to have one guy in the same league as Bruce and the other top tier acts. Why is this?

    Corollary question, that's probably been covered by plenty of rock writers and anthropologists, but why is it that England, with a population less than 1/6 of ours, has produced such an obscene amount of what's considered one of the quintessential American music forms? I mean, it's really extraordinary. They've given us like half of rock 'n roll.
    I think Brits discovered American blues and relished it with enthusiasm that just didn’t happen the same way in the states. What they created from it was something distinctly different yet definitely a derivative of it. With that said l, I think Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were a band almost as same as the Stones. Mike Campbell was a strong 2nd to Tom in terms of creativity. They were a very tight-nit band from BF Florida that always had a chip on their shoulders. Very much an “us against the world”mentality. If you like hearing stories about touring musicians, especially Americana acts, check out Otis Gibbs on YouTube. My favorite guitarist, Kenny Vaughn tells some really good stories about touring with Lucinda Williams as the opener for Tom and the HBs. Ditto for Dan Baird of the Georgia Satellites.

    I’ll also throw out Queen and the Almond Brothers as great American bands as well as Skynyrd. While Eric Clapton was a member of 2 well known bands, I think of him as more of solo act.

    But your premise holds up well for the most part. You didn’t even mention Dire Straits, The Kinks, Black Sabbath and the Police.

    Incidentally, see if you recognize this cool British cover band named “The High Numbers”:

    https://youtu.be/waxaiAjh-r0

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    Incidentally, see if you recognize this cool British cover band named “The High Numbers”:

    https://youtu.be/waxaiAjh-r0
    Those guys remind me of that band who used to do a fantastic live version of Summertime Blues. Who were they again?

  9. #329
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Those guys remind me of that band who used to do a fantastic live version of Summertime Blues. Who were they again?
    Live at Leeds is one of the best live rock recordings ever (along with The Last Waltz [The Band], Stop Making Sense [Talking Heads], and Waiting for Columbus [Little Feat, my all-time favorite live album]). Oh, and Cornell 5/8/77 [if you know, you know].

    Oh, speaking of — WTH is this? It makes me excited in ways I cannot describe . . . .

    Last edited by OldPhiKap; 03-17-2023 at 07:48 AM.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Oh, speaking of — WTH is this? It makes me excited in ways I cannot describe . . . .
    OMFG please!

  11. #331
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I think Brits discovered American blues and relished it with enthusiasm that just didn’t happen the same way in the states. What they created from it was something distinctly different yet definitely a derivative of it. With that said l, I think Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were a band almost as same as the Stones. Mike Campbell was a strong 2nd to Tom in terms of creativity. They were a very tight-nit band from BF Florida that always had a chip on their shoulders. Very much an “us against the world”mentality. If you like hearing stories about touring musicians, especially Americana acts, check out Otis Gibbs on YouTube. My favorite guitarist, Kenny Vaughn tells some really good stories about touring with Lucinda Williams as the opener for Tom and the HBs. Ditto for Dan Baird of the Georgia Satellites.

    I’ll also throw out Queen and the Almond Brothers as great American bands as well as Skynyrd. While Eric Clapton was a member of 2 well known bands, I think of him as more of solo act.

    But your premise holds up well for the most part. You didn’t even mention Dire Straits, The Kinks, Black Sabbath and the Police.

    Incidentally, see if you recognize this cool British cover band named “The High Numbers”:

    https://youtu.be/waxaiAjh-r0
    I saw the Allman Brothers live a couple of times in the very early 1970's when Duane Allman was still alive. What a great band!!

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post

    Why is it that so many of the "best" bands are/were English, while almost all of the "best" dudes with a backing band formula entries are American? There are exceptions to both generalities, yes. But I don't think anyone's going to argue that the Allmans, R.E.M., Pearl Jam, Talking Heads, CCR, etc. are in the same tier as the holy trinity I mentioned above, who are all British (as were the Who, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, etc.). And the list of British solo artists just can't even sit in the same room as Springsteen, Prince, Petty, Hendrix, Dylan, Elvis (if we extend that far backward), and on and on. You have to give them Ireland just to have one guy in the same league as Bruce and the other top tier acts. Why is this?

    Corollary question, that's probably been covered by plenty of rock writers and anthropologists, but why is it that England, with a population less than 1/6 of ours, has produced such an obscene amount of what's considered one of the quintessential American music forms? I mean, it's really extraordinary. They've given us like half of rock 'n roll.
    Throw gender out and it becomes a different story. The queens of British pop/rock/R&B hold their own against the Americans. Annie Lennox, Kate Bush, Alison Moyet, Dusty Springstein et.c hold their own against Whitney, Nina Simone, and Taylor Swift. The breadth of work of female American singers is probably better but it's a lot closer that the men.

    England has been incorporating (pilfering really) different aspects of different cultures longer that the US. That extends to music, food, art, etc... How many of us grew up with the only ethnic food options of Americanize Mexican or Americanize Chinese? We had the blues, jazz and Motown but for the longest time there we did not incorporated it into other aspects of music and society. It just took longer and missed the opportunity to monopolies the moment.


    Quote Originally Posted by lotusland View Post
    I think Brits discovered American blues and relished it with enthusiasm that just didn’t happen the same way in the states. What they created from it was something distinctly different yet definitely a derivative of it. With that said l, I think Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers were a band almost as same as the Stones. Mike Campbell was a strong 2nd to Tom in terms of creativity. They were a very tight-nit band from BF Florida that always had a chip on their shoulders. Very much an “us against the world”mentality. If you like hearing stories about touring musicians, especially Americana acts, check out Otis Gibbs on YouTube. My favorite guitarist, Kenny Vaughn tells some really good stories about touring with Lucinda Williams as the opener for Tom and the HBs. Ditto for Dan Baird of the Georgia Satellites.

    I’ll also throw out Queen and the Almond Brothers as great American bands as well as Skynyrd. While Eric Clapton was a member of 2 well known bands, I think of him as more of solo act.

    But your premise holds up well for the most part. You didn’t even mention Dire Straits, The Kinks, Black Sabbath and the Police.

    Incidentally, see if you recognize this cool British cover band named “The High Numbers”:

    https://youtu.be/waxaiAjh-r0
    Is this a different Queen that I don't know about?

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    Throw gender out and it becomes a different story. The queens of British pop/rock/R&B hold their own against the Americans. Annie Lennox, Kate Bush, Alison Moyet, Dusty Springstein et.c hold their own against Whitney, Nina Simone, and Taylor Swift. The breadth of work of female American singers is probably better but it's a lot closer that the men.

    England has been incorporating (pilfering really) different aspects of different cultures longer that the US. That extends to music, food, art, etc... How many of us grew up with the only ethnic food options of Americanize Mexican or Americanize Chinese? We had the blues, jazz and Motown but for the longest time there we did not incorporated it into other aspects of music and society. It just took longer and missed the opportunity to monopolies the moment.


    Is this a different Queen that I don't know about?
    Oops I thought Freddie was the only Brit. My bad. We suck even worse than I thought !

  14. #334
    Some male Brit solo artists to consider: Bowie, Van Morrison, Clapton, Elvis Costello, Richard Thompson (personal favorite, others might not agree), Elton John.

    Some female US solo artists to consider: Aretha, Amy Winehouse, Janet Joplin, Lucinda Williams, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Patti Smith

  15. #335
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Nepos View Post
    Some male Brit solo artists to consider: Bowie, Van Morrison, Clapton, Elvis Costello, Richard Thompson (personal favorite, others might not agree), Elton John.

    Some female US solo artists to consider: Aretha, Amy Winehouse, Janet Joplin, Lucinda Williams, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Patti Smith
    Amy Winehouse is English.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Amy Winehouse is English.
    Facts, shmacks. - Janis (aka Janet) Joplin

  17. #337
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Amy Winehouse is English.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nepos View Post
    Facts, shmacks. - Janis (aka Janet) Joplin
    And I should have said that Amy Winehouse was English. Details . . . .

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Nepos View Post
    Some male Brit solo artists to consider: Bowie, Van Morrison, Clapton, Elvis Costello, Richard Thompson (personal favorite, others might not agree), Elton John.

    Some female US solo artists to consider: Aretha, Amy Winehouse, Janet Joplin, Lucinda Williams, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Patti Smith
    Richard Thompson is a damn good guitarist and his albums “I Want to See the Bright Lights Tonight” and “Shoot Out the Lights” are on my list of favorite albums. Saw him at the Carolina Theater in Durham in 2017.

    And Lucinda Williams is one of the best, imo. Her album “Car Wheels on a Gravel Road” is sublime. I’ve turned many a friend and relative on to that album and they’ve all ended up liking it a lot.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Amy Winehouse is English.
    And Van (to whom I was alluding in my post upthread) is Irish, not British. Good inclusions by Nepos of Elton John and Bowie, though - they're probably the cream of the crop of British solo acts in terms of impact and album sales overall. [Let's not discuss the appears to be desperate for cash in his '70's Elton John, though, please. I'll just pretend he died in 1980 or so].

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Travel safe!

    I’m a fan of Mother’s but there are plenty of less famous places with probably better food (zig ain’t fine dining — just good). https://www.mothersrestaurant.net/
    As I write this I’m eating Crawfish Étouffée over grits at Mother’s and it’s a WOW! Planning to come here tomorrow for the Seafood Gumbo!

    And I agree that The Who “Live at Leeds” is phenomenal. Every song is good-to-great. And I really enjoy Roger Daltrey’s banter with the crowd. And btw, their album “Live at Hull 1970” is just as good and maybe better. No less than Daltrey himself thinks the Hull performance was superior to Leeds. I listen to them both at least once or twice every year.

    As acclaimed as The Who is, I still think they’re underrated by the general populace. What a band.

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