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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    yeah, hoping DUMAC didn't get too deep into FTX...
    Other than exposure through Sequoia, Lightspeed, and maybe some other VC funds (I assume), they do not appear to have exposure to FTX.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
    The fact that Sequoia had this hot mess posted on their website just three months ago still leaves me flabbergasted:

    FTX CEO SBF Wants to Fix Crypto -- And Everything Else | Sequoia Capital
    Alternate title: "Sam Bankman-Fried Has a Savior Complex—And Maybe You Should Too"


    These are our brightest VC folks?
    Thanks for the link. Reading that I think I lost a little hope for the future of humanity.

  3. #63
    I wonder is Sam will spend the rest of his life in jail for his scheme that did a lot of people dirty. I also wonder if those who received big contributions from him ought to return that money.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    Other than exposure through Sequoia, Lightspeed, and maybe some other VC funds (I assume), they do not appear to have exposure to FTX.
    Just curious, how can you know that? DUMAC guards their investments like the crown jewels...

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    I wonder is Sam will spend the rest of his life in jail for his scheme that did a lot of people dirty. I also wonder if those who received big contributions from him ought to return that money.
    I do understand the sentiment here, but it always amuses (saddens) me that we seem to find it acceptable to buy off politicians with "clean" money, but it's wrong to buy them with "dirty" money.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    I wonder is Sam will spend the rest of his life in jail for his scheme that did a lot of people dirty. I also wonder if those who received big contributions from him ought to return that money.
    I'm sure Sam would like to delay his trial for ten years or so and he can thusly sip gin and tonics, eat filet mignon, hang out in mom and dad's yard and think up excuses to tell the jury and judge.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Just curious, how can you know that? DUMAC guards their investments like the crown jewels...
    The cap table was made public when things went sideways. You can see a list of investors here: https://app.dealroom.co/companies/ftx and SBF sent the cap table to Forbes which is highlighted in this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewi...h=695e63f72670

    Of course, DUMAC may have exposure through an SPV of some sort.
    My Quick Smells Like French Toast.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Channing View Post
    The cap table was made public when things went sideways. You can see a list of investors here: https://app.dealroom.co/companies/ftx and SBF sent the cap table to Forbes which is highlighted in this article: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewi...h=695e63f72670

    Of course, DUMAC may have exposure through an SPV of some sort.
    Ah, very good, thanks. I know DUMAC is very tight lipped about their investments...

  9. #69
    I am a bit unclear on how exactly DOJ/US Courts have jurisdiction in these criminal allegations. All of the alleged misconduct occurred in a foreign country. While I like the idea of SBF facing justice, I don't think it is our (the US's) place to dish it out. We should not ignore basic legal tenants to extend our laws to places that are not ours. IMHO SBF should face justice in Bahaman courts or not at all.

    Also, everyone who invested in FTX did so knowing that it was offshore. The offshore location was a big selling point because it avoided pernicious US government involvement. FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I am a bit unclear on how exactly DOJ/US Courts have jurisdiction in these criminal allegations. All of the alleged misconduct occurred in a foreign country. While I like the idea of SBF facing justice, I don't think it is our (the US's) place to dish it out. We should not ignore basic legal tenants to extend our laws to places that are not ours. IMHO SBF should face justice in Bahaman courts or not at all.

    Also, everyone who invested in FTX did so knowing that it was offshore. The offshore location was a big selling point because it avoided pernicious US government involvement. FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.
    “I don’t want government interference, just government protection.”

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I am a bit unclear on how exactly DOJ/US Courts have jurisdiction in these criminal allegations. All of the alleged misconduct occurred in a foreign country. While I like the idea of SBF facing justice, I don't think it is our (the US's) place to dish it out. We should not ignore basic legal tenants to extend our laws to places that are not ours. IMHO SBF should face justice in Bahaman courts or not at all.

    Also, everyone who invested in FTX did so knowing that it was offshore. The offshore location was a big selling point because it avoided pernicious US government involvement. FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.
    I think you are dead on target here.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I am a bit unclear on how exactly DOJ/US Courts have jurisdiction in these criminal allegations. All of the alleged misconduct occurred in a foreign country. While I like the idea of SBF facing justice, I don't think it is our (the US's) place to dish it out. We should not ignore basic legal tenants to extend our laws to places that are not ours. IMHO SBF should face justice in Bahaman courts or not at all.

    Also, everyone who invested in FTX did so knowing that it was offshore. The offshore location was a big selling point because it avoided pernicious US government involvement. FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.
    You want Morlocks and Eloi because that's the end game.

    FTX and Alameda Research have US operations and US customers. More importantly, FTX filed for bankruptcy (and it's protection) in a court in Delaware in the US of A. (Side note: Some of those customers want the bankruptcy court to kept their names secret. So they want their money but don't want the world to know). If any one wants to get their head spinning look at a org chart of his operations. There are plenty of countries that can go after him and his cohorts. To bad for them, they didn't commit a crime in Norway. The prisons are nice there.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.
    These political comments are too far, imo. As a libertarian I want to post a huge rebutal of your gross misnderstanding of libertarian principles, but the DBR is not the forum for this discussion.

    Please leave politics out of this discussion. Libertarians deserve the same protection as Ds and Rs.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    These political comments are too far, imo. As a libertarian I want to post a huge rebutal of your gross misnderstanding of libertarian principles, but the DBR is not the forum for this discussion.

    Please leave politics out of this discussion. Libertarians deserve the same protection as Ds and Rs.
    Fair enough - you are correct that Libertarians deserve the same consideration as Ds and Rs. I will remember to limit my comments accordingly in the future.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
    You want Morlocks and Eloi because that's the end game.

    FTX and Alameda Research have US operations and US customers. More importantly, FTX filed for bankruptcy (and it's protection) in a court in Delaware in the US of A. (Side note: Some of those customers want the bankruptcy court to kept their names secret. So they want their money but don't want the world to know). If any one wants to get their head spinning look at a org chart of his operations. There are plenty of countries that can go after him and his cohorts. To bad for them, they didn't commit a crime in Norway. The prisons are nice there.
    I did not know about the bankruptcy filing - that's submission to jurisdiction - DOJ can/should do their worst.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    SEC

    Quote Originally Posted by niveklaen View Post
    I am a bit unclear on how exactly DOJ/US Courts have jurisdiction in these criminal allegations. All of the alleged misconduct occurred in a foreign country. While I like the idea of SBF facing justice, I don't think it is our (the US's) place to dish it out. We should not ignore basic legal tenants to extend our laws to places that are not ours. IMHO SBF should face justice in Bahaman courts or not at all.

    Also, everyone who invested in FTX did so knowing that it was offshore. The offshore location was a big selling point because it avoided pernicious US government involvement. FTX is the free market libertarian dream. We should not betray that free informed choice made by competent adults. The free market will punish this conduct by depriving SBF of future customers. We should let this lasse faire capitalistic paradise work just as its participants intended.
    Recovering securities lawyer here, so I can't resist commenting on US jurisdiction, at least under the securities laws. There typically are two kinds of jurisdictional issues under the securities laws. The easiest to establish is fraud; the harder is some sort of registration violation.

    All the SEC needs to show to bring a fraud charge is that SBF, while using the "means and instrumentalities of interstate commerce", made materially misleading statements "in the sale of a security" or "in connection with the purchase or sale of a security". The SEC complaint doesn't go into much detail on this test, so it's hard to know if there is much of the case here.

    Having said that, there clearly were US investors in FTX, and SBF appears to have used things like Twitter to make statements, so I don't think the SEC's case is going to be all that difficult to establish.

    There is a related jurisdictional question as to whether FTX should have registered as a US securities exchange. The SEC has not alleged a registration violation and I doubt it will.

  17. #77
    Bankman-Fried entered a not-guilty plea at his arraignment in Manhattan federal court early this afternoon. He was met by a sizable media scrum when he arrive at court with his legal team and his mother. Judge Lewis Kaplan set a tentative trial date of Oct. 2, 2023. My understanding is that he could face up to 115 years behind bars if convicted of all charges.

  18. #78
    He should go to prison for life, he made many people believe that money grew on trees and took their life savings.

    Also, anyone who he gave money to, to try to gain political gain, should return those "contributions".

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    He should go to prison for life, he made many people believe that money grew on trees and took their life savings.

    Also, anyone who he gave money to, to try to gain political gain, should return those "contributions".
    and in the meantime he can spend another year sipping Cabernets in mom's back yard...meanwhile our local Congress people have pledged to return his money to the DOJ when they ask for it.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    and in the meantime he can spend another year sipping Cabernets in mom's back yard...meanwhile our local Congress people have pledged to return his money to the DOJ when they ask for it.
    Yup. Many have either donated the money to charity or are waiting for the court to tell then where to send it. There is little word or action from Congress people that took the money without the publicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by sciencegeek View Post
    He should go to prison for life, he made many people believe that money grew on trees and took their life savings.
    I have sympathy for people that lost money because of the theft…any theft. What you are taking about are two separate things. Anyone that lost money on a spec asset without due diligence is responsible for their own actions. We have a years long thread about that and how to prevent it. Short answer: Mirages aren’t real.
    Last edited by Kdogg; 01-03-2023 at 05:00 PM.

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