Whitehead

[Music man55]

This thread is so reminiscent of the Harry Giles discussions several years ago that it is almost frightening. Unfortunately for both the fans and the young man himself, the “just you wait for the real Harry Giles to appear” never happened. I’m not saying the physical or mental situations are the same, but let’s hope for everyone involved that the Whitehead story has a happier ending.

I too, remember waiting for the real Harry Giles to come flying in, but we only saw small snippets of what could have been that year. I fully expect Whitehead to have a breakout performance most any time. Can’t compare the two situations.

[JasonEvans]

let’s hope for everyone involved that the Whitehead story has a happier ending.

While it is nowhere near what was expected for a player as gifted as Giles was, it is worth noting that Harry earned over $8 mill in his NBA career (which may be over, not really clear what he is doing now). If he invests wisely he can live quite comfortably for the rest of his life. Not exactly a tragic ending.

[lotusland]

Maybe this thread could be for discussion of the full freshman class? I can’t help wondering about the 2023 draft and over all NBA prospects for this class and likelihood they’ll stay considering NIL prospects. Granted, NIL is the biggest unknown for fans. Lively seems like the Anti-Okafor in that he can protect the rim and degend the pick and roll but is extremely limited in half court offense . At the same time, he’s much different than Bacot and tshiebwe who score and rebound very well in college but cannot defend NBA centers or NBA pick and roll. So, I guess that teams will take a chance on Lively improving his rebounding and adding basic scoring ability but, it seems very possible if not likely, that he’ll be a journeyman roll-player in the League at best. So based on projected draft position and NIL value, is playing his Sophomore year at Duke a reasonable possibility?

[kshepinthehouse]

Maybe this thread could be for discussion of the full freshman class? I can’t help wondering about the 2023 draft and over all NBA prospects for this class and likelihood they’ll stay considering NIL prospects. Granted, NIL is the biggest unknown for fans. Lively seems like the Anti-Okafor in that he can protect the rim and degend the pick and roll but is extremely limited in half court offense . At the same time, he’s much different than Bacot and tshiebwe who score and rebound very well in college but cannot defend NBA centers or NBA pick and roll. So, I guess that teams will take a chance on Lively improving his rebounding and adding basic scoring ability but, it seems very possible if not likely, that he’ll be a journeyman roll-player in the League at best. So based on projected draft position and NIL value, is playing his Sophomore year at Duke a reasonable possibility?

I actually think that if he comes back next year he risks being exposed even more. I think he’s 100% gone. I think he will end up on a team like the warriors and play the free safety roll, he able to switch effectively, lob threat, and knock down the occasional three pointer.

[dukelifer]

Maybe this thread could be for discussion of the full freshman class? I can’t help wondering about the 2023 draft and over all NBA prospects for this class and likelihood they’ll stay considering NIL prospects. Granted, NIL is the biggest unknown for fans. Lively seems like the Anti-Okafor in that he can protect the rim and degend the pick and roll but is extremely limited in half court offense . At the same time, he’s much different than Bacot and tshiebwe who score and rebound very well in college but cannot defend NBA centers or NBA pick and roll. So, I guess that teams will take a chance on Lively improving his rebounding and adding basic scoring ability but, it seems very possible if not likely, that he’ll be a journeyman roll-player in the League at best. So based on projected draft position and NIL value, is playing his Sophomore year at Duke a reasonable possibility?

No way a team does not draft him in the first round. That said- his NBA career is very uncertain. He is not ready for the NBA now- but perhaps in 2 years with the right development. The kid has a great attitude and appears to be coachable. He is very raw.

[tommy]

I actually think that if he comes back next year he risks being exposed even more. I think he’s 100% gone. I think he will end up on a team like the warriors and play the free safety roll, he able to switch effectively, lob threat, and knock down the occasional three pointer.

Isn’t that what they drafted Wiseman to do ?

[kshepinthehouse]

Isn’t that what they drafted Wiseman to do ?

Terrible defender

[Jeffrey]

While it is nowhere near what was expected for a player as gifted as Giles was, it is worth noting that Harry earned over $8 mill in his NBA career (which may be over, not really clear what he is doing now). If he invests wisely he can live quite comfortably for the rest of his life. Not exactly a tragic ending.

I think this is much more a reflection of the ludicrous NBA pay levels, than Harry’s NBA career success. IMO, Giles was better than Tatum in 11th grade. It’s very sad that at 24, Harry’s career may be over due to two horrible injuries.

[DukieInBrasil]

I actually think that if he comes back next year he risks being exposed even more. I think he’s 100% gone. I think he will end up on a team like the warriors and play the free safety roll, he able to switch effectively, lob threat, and knock down the occasional three pointer.

If Lively continues playing like he has lately, i can't see how anyone would take him. 0 points and 1 rebound which came with less than 2 minutes to play? Against a relatively undersized squad? Knocking down an occasional 3 pointer from a guy who has only launched backboard destroying bricks at the college level? Can I have some of what you're smoking?
I don't bring these points up to bash the guy, but he has not played like someone who can compete in the NBA, so far. He can be useful to Duke this year even without significant improvement, and his absence vs Wake was notable. That being said, there is still plenty of time for him to improve and for him to show that he can be the player you've described above. Like the namesake of this thread, who up until the last couple of games has not played very well but has finally put together a steadily improving spate of games, Lively may shake off the rust and start showing everyone what got them so excited about him in HS. I don't think there's a GM out there that could justify drafting Lively as a project after what we've seen so far.

[tommy]

If Lively continues playing like he has lately, i can't see how anyone would take him. 0 points and 1 rebound which came with less than 2 minutes to play? Against a relatively undersized squad? Knocking down an occasional 3 pointer from a guy who has only launched backboard destroying bricks at the college level? Can I have some of what you're smoking?
I don't bring these points up to bash the guy, but he has not played like someone who can compete in the NBA, so far. He can be useful to Duke this year even without significant improvement, and his absence vs Wake was notable. That being said, there is still plenty of time for him to improve and for him to show that he can be the player you've described above. Like the namesake of this thread, who up until the last couple of games has not played very well but has finally put together a steadily improving spate of games, Lively may shake off the rust and start showing everyone what got them so excited about him in HS. I don't think there's a GM out there that could justify drafting Lively as a project after what we've seen so far.

I don't disagree with you. But I don't think "shaking off the rust" is Dereck's problem, at least not anymore. He played his first game on November 11, got his first start a week later, so he has been playing games for going on two months already, plus the practices. I know he missed the Wake game with illness, but he's had more than enough time to shake off whatever rust he had from a calf injury that, a couple of months ago, had him out a few weeks.

[Steven43]

If nothing else I’m thinking these past five seasons have shown us that players like Zion Williamson and Paolo Banchero — who are ranked within the top 5 nationally coming out of high school and who then go on to play like future NBA All-Stars during their one season at Duke — are pretty rare indeed.

[gofurman]

I don't disagree with you. But I don't think "shaking off the rust" is Dereck's problem, at least not anymore. He played his first game on November 11, got his first start a week later, so he has been playing games for going on two months already, plus the practices. I know he missed the Wake game with illness, but he's had more than enough time to shake off whatever rust he had from a calf injury that, a couple of months ago, had him out a few weeks.

I was talking about this with someone. I hope Lively is a rare guy who stays for 2-3 yrs if his numbers don’t improve drastically. Last game 0 points and 3 fouls? 2 blocks and a turnover. And he can’t shoot from outside. Why in the world would anyone draft him? Nothing against him but pre-season hype aside he’s probably the 8th best player at Duke. Much less the NBA.

I just don’t see it. I hope he either improves TREMENDOUSLY and leads us to a FF …or stays and is great in a year or two. He came in known for blocks and rebounding and defense. But vs good comp he only makes a few blocks and that’s about it

Really don’t want to see people in his ear and he leaves to languish in the G league or overseas at best. Maybe Duke NIL will step up and we see him as soph and junior.

Does anyone really argue that - as of now - he should stay?

[Jeffrey]

If nothing else I’m thinking these past five seasons have shown us that players like Zion Williamson and Paolo Banchero — who are ranked within the top 5 nationally coming out of high school and who then go on to play like future NBA All-Stars during their one season at Duke — are pretty rare indeed.

Johnny Dawkins
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner
Bobby Hurley
Grant Hill
Corey Maggette
Elton Brand
Jay Williams
Carlos Boozer
Luol Deng
Kyrie Irving

[arnie]

Johnny Dawkins
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner
Bobby Hurley
Grant Hill
Corey Maggette
Elton Brand
Jay Williams
Carlos Boozer
Luol Deng
Kyrie Irving

Gene Banks

[Phredd3]

If nothing else I’m thinking these past five seasons have shown us that players like Zion Williamson and Paolo Banchero — who are ranked within the top 5 nationally coming out of high school and who then go on to play like future NBA All-Stars during their one season at Duke — are pretty rare indeed.

Johnny Dawkins
Danny Ferry
Christian Laettner
Bobby Hurley
Grant Hill
Corey Maggette
Elton Brand
Jay Williams
Carlos Boozer
Luol Deng
Kyrie Irving
(and Gene Banks)

Hmm. Seems like there's a disconnect here.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hmm. Seems like there's a disconnect here.

Aren't we just listing Duke players we like?

Shane Battier!

(Just kidding)

I'd suggest that we've had pretty danged good success with our OAD top recruits too, but I'm not going to pretend I know off the top of my head which were top five recruits.

[dukelifer]

If Lively continues playing like he has lately, i can't see how anyone would take him. 0 points and 1 rebound which came with less than 2 minutes to play? Against a relatively undersized squad? Knocking down an occasional 3 pointer from a guy who has only launched backboard destroying bricks at the college level? Can I have some of what you're smoking?
I don't bring these points up to bash the guy, but he has not played like someone who can compete in the NBA, so far. He can be useful to Duke this year even without significant improvement, and his absence vs Wake was notable. That being said, there is still plenty of time for him to improve and for him to show that he can be the player you've described above. Like the namesake of this thread, who up until the last couple of games has not played very well but has finally put together a steadily improving spate of games, Lively may shake off the rust and start showing everyone what got them so excited about him in HS. I don't think there's a GM out there that could justify drafting Lively as a project after what we've seen so far.

He is 7 feet tall and can run the floor; that is probably enough. As I said he is really raw but GM’s are going to think he can be molded into a better player. I suspect he would be drafted outside the lottery but he will be a first round pick just on his measurables.
He just needs one breakout game to justify the pick.

[Jeffrey]

Hmm. Seems like there's a disconnect here.

My point is, IMO, most of our top 5 recruits have been successful at Duke and in the NBA (barring career ending injuries). I don’t think that’s changed during the OAD era. I could easily add to the three OADs on my previous list. I think this year’s pair are an exception.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

My point is, IMO, most of our top 5 recruits have been successful at Duke and in the NBA (barring career ending injuries). I think this year’s pair are an exception.

I think Phredd3 was alluding to the fact that the other DBR poster said "one year at Duke" and the repliea all seemed to be "here are good players who we remember" irrespective of being OAD.

[budwom]

I really don't have much of a clue how these guys are going to do individually or collectively. A very different kind of group that may do tremendously well or not so much. Just have to stay tuned.