Whitehead

[LasVegas]

For a guy ranked in the top 3/5 coming out of high school, he has been rather underwhelming.

Yes he was always going to be more of a "defensive" guy, but I wonder how much the injury is still bothering him?

Both him and Lively just can't seem to get into a rhythm. I believe both are better than they have shown so far, but its been some time since we've had such an underwhelming class.

Whitehead as a defensive guy? This surprises me. I was always under the impression he was a scorer.

[rsvman]

Whitehead as a defensive guy? This surprises me. I was always under the impression he was a scorer.

I have watched him on the defensive side of the ball and he seems to do a pretty good job.

[gumbomoop]

Whitehead as a defensive guy? This surprises me. I was always under the impression he was a scorer.

The several times I saw him in HS, I was equally impressed with his O and D. But what impressed me most on O was his control of the game, court-and-teammate awareness, vision-passing. Yes, he could score, but that wasn't necessarily what stood out, as other guys could score, too. And I was at least as impressed with his D -- kept guys in front of him, steals.

If and when he gets fully healthy and 80-90% up to speed -- maybe late Jan? -- I hope to see the ball in his hands at least as much as, and I prefer more than, with Roach and/or Proctor.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

For a guy ranked in the top 3/5 coming out of high school, he has been rather underwhelming.

Yes he was always going to be more of a "defensive" guy, but I wonder how much the injury is still bothering him?

Both him and Lively just can't seem to get into a rhythm. I believe both are better than they have shown so far, but its been some time since we've had such an underwhelming class.

Do you remember 2020-21 (Jalen Johnson, DJ Stewart, Brakefield, M Williams, Roach, Coleman)?

[dukelifer]

Do you remember 2020-21 (Jalen Johnson, DJ Stewart, Brakefield, M Williams, Roach, Coleman)?

All good players but they were like typical Freshman- they showed flashes but were not other worldly. Zion, Jah, Jabari and Marvin set a high bar. Most Freshman are figuring it out a lot that first year.

[DukieInBrasil]

Do you remember 2020-21 (Jalen Johnson, DJ Stewart, Brakefield, M Williams, Roach, Coleman)?

None of those guys were as highly ranked as Dariq, Dereck, or Flip. So the fact that they didn't WOW!!! us right away was partly due to the lower expectations for them.
I think it's somewhat unfair to be "underwhelmed" by this year's recruiting class since the 2 highest ranked ones (D&D) missed most/all of the pre-season with injuries, including some of the season. Mark Mitchell has played at or above my expectations for him. Flip has surpassed my expectations, but as team's figure him out his limitations are being exposed. Proctor has been very underwhelming so far. I didn't expect much out of Schutt, and Duke has gotten less than that.
However, comparing this year's class to the 21-22 class is not an apt one, b/c this year's class has 3 guys (maybe 4 depending on which outlet) ranked higher than any player from 21-22.

[CDu]

The several times I saw him in HS, I was equally impressed with his O and D. But what impressed me most on O was his control of the game, court-and-teammate awareness, vision-passing. Yes, he could score, but that wasn't necessarily what stood out, as other guys could score, too. And I was at least as impressed with his D -- kept guys in front of him, steals.

If and when he gets fully healthy and 80-90% up to speed -- maybe late Jan? -- I hope to see the ball in his hands at least as much as, and I prefer more than, with Roach and/or Proctor.

Whitehead only averaged 2.4 assists per game as a senior, which seems pretty low for a guy who had the ball in his hands a lot. By comparison, RJ Barrett (who played the same role for the high school program a few years earlier) averaged 4.5 assists per game.

So I am not sure if playmaker for others is the best role for him.

[gumbomoop]

Whitehead only averaged 2.4 assists per game as a senior, which seems pretty low for a guy who had the ball in his hands a lot. By comparison, RJ Barrett (who played the same role for the high school program a few years earlier) averaged 4.5 assists per game.

So I am not sure if playmaker for others is the best role for him.

Fair enough, though “playmaker” isn’t exactly how I’d describe him, either. In the GEICOs, 3 games against strong competition, even if a small sample size, he was more a “game-controller,” who seemed to know how to get teammates in good position to shoot or get to basket. Not to mention when to drive or shoot himself.

I haven’t seen much of that “game-control” from Proctor or Roach, Proctor probably because of his newness, Roach because he’s no “classic” PG. To be sure, Whitehead’s no classic PG, either. I’ve mentioned several times upthread and will again say that Proctor’s reclass, along with Whitehead’s injury, makes me wonder whether Whitehead will get much of a chance to show what I think is his best game — on O. I realize that others, e.g., CDu here, remain unconvinced, or at least uncertain, that I’m right about “total Whitehead.”

But as this thread has developed, I’ve also emphasized Whitehead’s strong D. For example, I would guess that had Whitehead been healthy Tuesday evening, at some point Scheyer would have had him guard Wake’s red-hot Hildreth, who torched us in the lane with those teardrops.

Whitehead, when healthy, is a very powerful guy; he uses his strength and vision all over the court. I’ve not seen that from Proctor, who is certainly talented in his own right, too. I think Whitehead a special player, but wonder whether we’ll get to see the several ways in which he’s special, because (1) he’s behind and (2) we have 2 (even 3 if you count Blakes, which I don't) nominal PGs.

Scheyer’s a savant? Well, he displayed savantitude as a sneaky-athletic player, who both “saw stuff” and “un-athletically” made some very unusual shots and plays. Imo, his coaching smarts will be tested this season in particular by how he gets the best out of Whitehead.

[roywhite]

The real Whitehead so far has been as elusive as Melville's White Whale.

I hope we see what the legend is about.

[dukelifer]

Whitehead only averaged 2.4 assists per game as a senior, which seems pretty low for a guy who had the ball in his hands a lot. By comparison, RJ Barrett (who played the same role for the high school program a few years earlier) averaged 4.5 assists per game.

So I am not sure if playmaker for others is the best role for him.

I have a feeling that Whitehead enjoys assisting to himself. In the modern NBA- at his height-he will have to be an elite shooter to be more than just a role player. He is probably just an okay shooter. Players do get better and he has decent mechanics -but he has much to work on. He will help Duke as the season progresses. It remains to be seen if he will be the focus of the offense.

[johnb]

Our recruits aren’t involved in ranking themselves. It doesn’t feel quite fair for us to feel disappointed in 18 year old players for their not living up to expectations that we created in our heads out of rankings developed by middle-aged website writers (with some influence by our own “expert” views honed by watching them on tv a couple times in high school).

My only real disappointment so far this year was the desultory effort put in by most of the team in the Wake Forest loss, a game in which Dariq wasn’t even on the bench. In that game, our two best players were two of our more lightly recruited guys (Blakes and Young).

I do hope we get to see Dariq play at a high level before he takes his talents to the NBA, but I do have less personal investment in guys who seem destined to be gone after a year. I’m far more interested in how the team meshes and how the players make each other better. Since Dariq seems like a very physically talented guy who does a lot of things well (but doesn’t seem to have a single dominating skill), he might just be at the center of all that meshing and team building—but it’s hard to be a catalyst on a team as a late-arriving, non-PG freshman.

[jv001]

I'm not a mind reader but I'm pretty sure most of our highly rated recruits have their minds on playing well for Duke University but also think about their NBA careers. That thinking is probably brought on by family members. I miss the 3-and 4-year superstars, but I realize that won't change in my lifetime.

GoDuke!

[arnie]

I'm not a mind reader but I'm pretty sure most of our highly rated recruits have their minds on playing well for Duke University but also think about their NBA careers. That thinking is probably brought on by family members. I miss the 3-and 4-year superstars, but I realize that won't change in my lifetime.

GoDuke!

Yep, no multi-year superstars; but I do foresee more 4-year Duke b-ball players in my lifetime.

Between NIL, blowup of the NCAA, Jon’s recruiting strategy changes and other factors Duke will become a more traditional b-ball program. At least that’s my hope.

[roywhite]

I'm not a mind reader but I'm pretty sure most of our highly rated recruits have their minds on playing well for Duke University but also think about their NBA careers. That thinking is probably brought on by family members. I miss the 3-and 4-year superstars, but I realize that won't change in my lifetime.

GoDuke!

Yeah, I'm interested to see how Dariq comes out of the Christmas break. Do the players get back late on the 25th? Or possibly the 26th? FSU comes to Cameron on 12/31.

Does he come back in good shape physically, mentally, and looking for a fresh start? Probably so, but in this brave new world, maybe family members or others suggest that he could just shut down his college career and prepare for the draft. Pull a Jalen Johnson?

[tommy]

Yeah, I'm interested to see how Dariq comes out of the Christmas break. Do the players get back late on the 25th? Or possibly the 26th? FSU comes to Cameron on 12/31.

Does he come back in good shape physically, mentally, and looking for a fresh start? Probably so, but in this brave new world, maybe family members or others suggest that he could just shut down his college career and prepare for the draft. Pull a Jalen Johnson?

Huh? Why on earth would he do that ? Such a move would raise way more questions about him, his injury, his game, and his commitment. Would be a bonehead move. Johnson was by all reports a lousy teammate and a selfish guy. I have heard nothing of the kind re: Dariq.

[DukieInBrasil]

Yeah, I'm interested to see how Dariq comes out of the Christmas break. Do the players get back late on the 25th? Or possibly the 26th? FSU comes to Cameron on 12/31.

Does he come back in good shape physically, mentally, and looking for a fresh start? Probably so, but in this brave new world, maybe family members or others suggest that he could just shut down his college career and prepare for the draft. Pull a Jalen Johnson?

that sort of speculation is...double un-cool. It seems like it violates some sort of DBR rules.
I'm a Duke fan, and sometimes i wish that players did more to help the team win games or that the team or players played better, but i'm not about speculating and rumor-mongering that any particular player is planning to shaft the team.

[JasonEvans]

Does he come back in good shape physically, mentally, and looking for a fresh start? Probably so, but in this brave new world, maybe family members or others suggest that he could just shut down his college career and prepare for the draft. Pull a Jalen Johnson?

Let’s examine this financially to see if it makes sense:

When he arrived on Dukes campus, Whitehead was regarded as one of the five best prospects for next year‘s NBA draft. His stock has unquestionably fallen due to questions about how he has looked since coming back from injury. He hasn’t been nearly as efficient or affective playing against the higher caliber athletes in college. Obviously, that has raised serious questions about how he will do at the next level. Still, despite his relatively poor performance, he is widely regarded as a mid-first round pick at the moment.

Now, I would imagine some of that mid-first round grade comes from expectations that he will continue to improve and show the kind of scoring abilities that everyone expected him to have. But, if he shuts it down at this point and doesn’t play at all then NBA scouts are going to be very concerned that may be the player we’ve seen for the past few weeks is the player he actually is.

If he shuts it down and refuses to play, I would imagine his stock would slip into the 20s and he would run a very real risk of falling out of the first round. He would be seen fairly similar to what Patrick Baldwin was seen as a year ago. Baldwin was often hurt and frankly didn’t play very well during his one year in college. As a result, he barely held on to be a first round pick, as you all probably know.

However, if whitehead continues to play and shows the ability that we consistently saw from him in high school and at the All-Star games, his stock is very likely to rise, at least a little bit. I’m not sure that he can get back to being a top five pic, but the top 10 is certainly a very distinct possibility.

Not playing could cost him tens of millions over his rookie contract. Unless he knows he will continue to be a below average ACC player if he keeps on playing, shutting it down would be quite foolish at this point.

[CDu]

However, if whitehead continues to play and shows the ability that we consistently saw from him in high school and at the All-Star games, his stock is very likely to rise, at least a little bit. I’m not sure that he can get back to being a top five pic, but the top 10 is certainly a very distinct possibility.

I completely agree with your rationale for why he would be best suited to return (and honestly, I'd be totally shocked if he shut it down), but I'd be even more bullish on this paragraph. If he comes plays like a superstar over the next 3 months? Then, he would very likely be a top-5 pick. Teams just need to see "it" for long enough to justify the pick given his high school pedigree.

Now, we can debate whether or not he'll bounce back to superstar levels, but if we assume he shows what he showed in high school then a top-5 pick would be in play for sure.

[szstark]

This thread is so reminiscent of the Harry Giles discussions several years ago that it is almost frightening. Unfortunately for both the fans and the young man himself, the “just you wait for the real Harry Giles to appear” never happened. I’m not saying the physical or mental situations are the same, but let’s hope for everyone involved that the Whitehead story has a happier ending.

[CDu]

This thread is so reminiscent of the Harry Giles discussions several years ago that it is almost frightening. Unfortunately for both the fans and the young man himself, the “just you wait for the real Harry Giles to appear” never happened. I’m not saying the physical or mental situations are the same, but let’s hope for everyone involved that the Whitehead story has a happier ending.

The one major difference being that Whitehead didn’t miss the prior two seasons with major knee injuries.

I am somewhat unsure of exactly how good Whitehead will be, but I don’t find their situations comparable aside from the fact that both missed some amount of time and both played poorly early on in their returns.