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Thread: Whitehead

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Saratoga2 View Post
    I watched him at the high school level and his handle and court awareness were impressive and he seemed smooth and athletic... I didn't see great outside shooting ability.
    I wanted to expand on this point a bit... my recollection of his recruitment aligns with yours, that he was seen as a scorer but not a shooter, and that his excellent defense was his main strength. A bit like Wendell Moore but more athletic. When I see scouting profiles that say his jumper is progressing or that his main strength is driving to the rim, I tend to read between the lines and interpret that to mean he is not a great shooter. "Has a great pull up jumper going left" says to me his three point shot is not there (yet).

    Due to the roster construction of our current team we've started to envision him as a 2 guard, whereas I've always pictured him as more of a 3. I know those are largely interchangable, but shooting ability is one of the main differentiators. Somewhere along the line a perception seems to have been built that he's an elite shooter and I don't know where that came from. Perhaps it is supported by the fact that most of his shots so far this season have been from outside, no doubt due to injury hesitancy.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I wanted to expand on this point a bit... my recollection of his recruitment aligns with yours, that he was seen as a scorer but not a shooter, and that his excellent defense was his main strength. A bit like Wendell Moore but more athletic. When I see scouting profiles that say his jumper is progressing or that his main strength is driving to the rim, I tend to read between the lines and interpret that to mean he is not a great shooter. "Has a great pull up jumper going left" says to me his three point shot is not there (yet).

    Due to the roster construction of our current team we've started to envision him as a 2 guard, whereas I've always pictured him as more of a 3. I know those are largely interchangable, but shooting ability is one of the main differentiators. Somewhere along the line a perception seems to have been built that he's an elite shooter and I don't know where that came from. Perhaps it is supported by the fact that most of his shots so far this season have been from outside, no doubt due to injury hesitancy.
    I can't speak for anyone else, but I never thought Whitehead coming in was going to be an elite outside shooter. But I was/am expecting an elite athlete who's a solid defender and a good scorer. Something befitting a #2 recruit. And I also envisioned him as a 3 more so than a 2. Here's to hoping he pans out to be just that.

  3. #23
    My recollection of Whitehead from his time in high school was that he was a streaky shooter. In 16 NIBC games last season, he shot 39.0% from 3, but just 60% from the FT line.

    Whithead has only had two games so far where I would say he has looked for his shot moreso than tried to fit in the flow of the offense. Against Delaware (his first game), he and the team seemed intent on feeding him the ball. He also took a lot of shots against Oregon State, mostly in the first half. Since starting the season 0-5 from 3, he has made 4 of his last 10 attempts and 3 of 4 from the FT line. The shot looks good coming out of his hand. He elevates, has a quick released, and has a good-looking arc on his shot. We'll see what kind of player he is as he further shakes off the rust.

    https://www.theseasonticket.com/roster_players/48017531

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    You took the words right out of my mouth. Memory tells me AJ Griffin was NOT the #2 rated player in his class. The entire discussion with Whitehead revolves around expectations for the #2 rated player. Not whether he will or won't get better as the season progresses.

    The real question is will he live up to the ranking? And the same can be said of Lively. All of us know that these two were injured and it will take some time for them to get "up to speed", so to speak. But will they even come close to what would reasonably be expected of the #1 & #2 players in the class? That is the question. And our reasonable expectations for this Duke season hang in the balance, imho.
    Did Cam Reddish ďlive up toĒ his #3 ranking? He didnít have a significant injury, from what I recall, and he had Zion and RJ taking the focus of opposing defenses, which consistently freed up Cam for open shots. Yet, many on this board seemed to be of the opinion that Duke very likely would have won the national championship had Cam been more of a consistent force on offense.

    Yes, he played solid defense most of the time, but he wasnít much of a passer and he had a propensity for committing turnovers at key moments.

    So did he live up to his ranking? I donít have a definitive opinion on this question; Iím just offering it up as food for thought.

  5. #25
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Did Cam Reddish ďlive up toĒ his #3 ranking? He didnít have a significant injury, from what I recall, and he had Zion and RJ taking the focus of opposing defenses, which consistently freed up Cam for open shots. Yet, many on this board seemed to be of the opinion that Duke very likely would have won the national championship had Cam been more of a consistent force on offense.

    Yes, he played solid defense most of the time, but he wasnít much of a passer and he had a propensity for committing turnovers at key moments.

    So did he live up to his ranking? I donít have a definitive opinion on this question; Iím just offering it up as food for thought.
    He was injured enough to miss an NCAA tournament game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB6kHUGMr74

  6. #26
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    Feb 2008
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    Lewisville, NC
    After the BC game, I'm seeing more of the positive things that Lively brings to this team -- shot blocking and shot altering, ability to run the floor for a big man, proficiency in executing lob plays, and general movement on defense.

    I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there? With AJ Griffin last year, after a few games, one could see that he had an exceptionally soft shot and excellent, balanced form.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there?
    Once heís fully healthy, with practice reps, say, mid-January: vision-passing, because heís tall and court-alert; and strong to the basket, because heís powerful, with excellent handle and big first step.

    Iíve posted this before: in an odd way, Proctorís reclass means Whitehead simply wonít have the ball as much. And Blakes, too, has the ball some, so far.

    So I donít think Whitehead will have a chance to dominate as much as might otherwise be the case. But his play and strengths on both O and D will be very noticeable.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Once heís fully healthy, with practice reps, say, mid-January: vision-passing, because heís tall and court-alert; and strong to the basket, because heís powerful, with excellent handle and big first step.

    Iíve posted this before: in an odd way, Proctorís reclass means Whitehead simply wonít have the ball as much. And Blakes, too, has the ball some, so far.

    So I donít think Whitehead will have a chance to dominate as much as might otherwise be the case. But his play and strengths on both O and D will be very noticeable.
    I'm glad that we don't have a ball dominant player this season. It's been fun to see the ball moving more and if we begin to shoot better, our offense will be fine. I think Dariq will be a good defender and he's coming along nicely. Mid-January sounds good to me.

    GoDuke!

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by roywhite View Post
    After the BC game, I'm seeing more of the positive things that Lively brings to this team -- shot blocking and shot altering, ability to run the floor for a big man, proficiency in executing lob plays, and general movement on defense.

    I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there? With AJ Griffin last year, after a few games, one could see that he had an exceptionally soft shot and excellent, balanced form.
    Ball handling and scoring. Also, did you see that offensive rebound and put back? Not many wings can do that. Or his excellent release on the fast break, with Grandison throwing a pass not many can catch? His shot is getting better, too.

    Whitehead is getting better, more slowly than I or he would like, but it's coming. He'll make this team a lot better when the calendar turns.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Ball handling and scoring.

    Whitehead is getting better, more slowly than I or he would like, but it's coming. He'll make this team a lot better when the calendar turns.
    Iím not seeing your first point (yet) as he had three turnovers yesterday but I agree fully with your more important second point.
    Bob Green

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Also to be fair, if Whitehead winds up having a season like Griffin's (10.4 ppg for the season, 12.6 ppg in conference play, 10.9 ppg in the ACCT and NCAAT), that would be a bit disappointing relative to expectations given his recruiting ranking (which suggests he should be a 1st Team All-ACC and potential All-American).

    I have little doubt that Whitehead will get a lot better. The question is whether "a lot better" is like Griffin, like Reddish, like Barnes, or a 1st Team All-ACC/potential All-American. Hopefully more like the latter end and less like the former end.
    Even if Dariq performs at a level more "like the former" that would still elevate Duke's overall play quite a bit. So far his play is equivalent to that of a mediocre backup, which is to say slightly worse than mediocre. But there's been improvement, and that drive late in the game where he finished a driving flip/lay in was a big step forward in terms of showing what he can do. If Dariq raises his level of play to All-ACC level, i imagine Duke battling for the #1 seed in the ACCT.
    ...and if Lively starts playing up to his ranking, i think there's little stopping Duke from that #1 seed. So far, or at least in the last 2 games, Lively is playing closer to expectations, but this team could get really, really fun to watch if they both do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Did Cam Reddish ďlive up toĒ his #3 ranking? He didnít have a significant injury, from what I recall, and he had Zion and RJ taking the focus of opposing defenses, which consistently freed up Cam for open shots. Yet, many on this board seemed to be of the opinion that Duke very likely would have won the national championship had Cam been more of a consistent force on offense.

    Yes, he played solid defense most of the time, but he wasnít much of a passer and he had a propensity for committing turnovers at key moments.

    So did he live up to his ranking? I donít have a definitive opinion on this question; Iím just offering it up as food for thought.
    IMHO (where the H shows up withe same erratic frequency as Cam Reddish's game): No. Which is not to say that Cam had a bad year, he was quite good. But the erratic nature of his play really diminished my appreciation for what he brought to the table. Had Cam just had a more consistent 3pt shot I think the defenses that were employed vs Duke in the NCAAT would have allowed for more Zion domination, and even some more RJ. What that team lacked was outside shooting, which took away the best attributes of all 3 of those top recruits. Heck, if Jack White could have just impersonated a Price Is Right contestant and bought a 3pt shot every once in a while, that team might have taken the title. (speaking of...Jack is playing some for DEN, and has yet to score, but still, he's in the NBA!)

    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I'm glad that we don't have a ball dominant player this season. It's been fun to see the ball moving more and if we begin to shoot better, our offense will be fine. I think Dariq will be a good defender and he's coming along nicely. Mid-January sounds good to me.
    GoDuke!
    When Jeremy gets it in his head that he needs to be the man (ball dominant), it can turn into quite the adventure. Some times he has just enough advantage, or the defensive plan is just open enough for him, that he looks quite good in that role. Other times, he just doesn't have what it takes to pull it off.
    I too like the improved ball movement this team is showing so far. For example, our guards vs BC had 11 assists and 0 turnovers. That's great! Their FG% as a group was poor but they were finding their teammates for good shots.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Even if Dariq performs at a level more "like the former" that would still elevate Duke's overall play quite a bit. So far his play is equivalent to that of a mediocre backup, which is to say slightly worse than mediocre. But there's been improvement, and that drive late in the game where he finished a driving flip/lay in was a big step forward in terms of showing what he can do. If Dariq raises his level of play to All-ACC level, i imagine Duke battling for the #1 seed in the ACCT.
    ...and if Lively starts playing up to his ranking, i think there's little stopping Duke from that #1 seed. So far, or at least in the last 2 games, Lively is playing closer to expectations, but this team could get really, really fun to watch if they both do!


    IMHO (where the H shows up withe same erratic frequency as Cam Reddish's game): No. Which is not to say that Cam had a bad year, he was quite good. But the erratic nature of his play really diminished my appreciation for what he brought to the table. Had Cam just had a more consistent 3pt shot I think the defenses that were employed vs Duke in the NCAAT would have allowed for more Zion domination, and even some more RJ. What that team lacked was outside shooting, which took away the best attributes of all 3 of those top recruits. Heck, if Jack White could have just impersonated a Price Is Right contestant and bought a 3pt shot every once in a while, that team might have taken the title. (speaking of...Jack is playing some for DEN, and has yet to score, but still, he's in the NBA!)


    When Jeremy gets it in his head that he needs to be the man (ball dominant), it can turn into quite the adventure. Some times he has just enough advantage, or the defensive plan is just open enough for him, that he looks quite good in that role. Other times, he just doesn't have what it takes to pull it off.
    I too like the improved ball movement this team is showing so far. For example, our guards vs BC had 11 assists and 0 turnovers. That's great! Their FG% as a group was poor but they were finding their teammates for good shots.
    There are so many pieces on this team. Blakes and Grandison have their moments. Young is as solid as they come. Proctor shows flashes. Mitchell can get on a hot streak. Lively and Whitehead are not in the Zion league but have strengths that will improve the team. Flip and Roach are the most consistent but not otherworldly. The only kid on the outside looking in is Schutt who I thought could bring a consistent outside shot but alas he is not ready. The jury is still out on Reeves. Scheyer has a good group of kids who have bought into the D. We will see how they look against better teams.

  13. #33
    Dariq just tweeted a picture of a Marcus Peters quote about second guessing himself after injury. Reading between the lines, I'd think this is Dariq lending credence to what some have said - that even when you are better physically, there is still some mental hurdles to jump post injury. Here's to hoping that he is able to get through that, both for the team but more importantly for his own well being.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA

    Dariq Tweet

    Quote Originally Posted by OldDog View Post
    Dariq just tweeted a picture of a Marcus Peters quote about second guessing himself after injury. Reading between the lines, I'd think this is Dariq lending credence to what some have said - that even when you are better physically, there is still some mental hurdles to jump post injury. Here's to hoping that he is able to get through that, both for the team but more importantly for his own well being.
    https://twitter.com/dariq_whitehead/...02192306659328

  15. #35
    He's my guy. Keep moving forward Dariq!
    Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.'

  16. #36
    [Imported from Wake postgame thread ...]

    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Whiteheadís real strength, which we've only seen glimpses of, is his incredible athleticism and slashing game. This is absolutely due to the injury and lingering mental effects of the injury. One can hope with 20 days off that he has regained some of his confidence in taking it to the rim. He has been far too reliant on his jumper, which is more of a complimentary part of his game rather than the meat. Once he is levitating over defenders and getting dunks and free throw attempts, he will be back to playing like the real Dariq Whitehead. If he's getting to the rim consistently, he doesn't need to be a super efficient 3 point shooter. I will point out though, once of the major positives that scouts took from his game in high school was his ability to hit shots off the dribble. He hasn't shown that much yet either. Hoping the new year will bring a new Whitehead.
    I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of kAzEís analysis, and most of the specifics, too, re Whitehead. From what I saw, Whitehead was a ďcompleteĒ player in HS, by which I mean multiple strengths on both O and D.

    He certainly wasnít a great 3-bomber, just pretty good, and kAzE is right that his jumper was only one part of his O talent, and not even the thing that stood out. Iíll repeat that what most impressed me was his point-forward-floor-generalship, featuring vision-passing, both half- and full-court.

    Iíd add to what kAzE says about O that on D Whitehead was an excellent multi-position defender, so I hope weíll start seeing that by late January. I think I recall a couple of instances of good D that drew positive comments in some earlier game-thread.

    Iíll repeat, too, a concern Iíve had re Proctorís reclass. Because Proctor has a good handle and is intermittently impressive, he becomes the O-initiator sometimes, much more often than Blakes, for example. But more often than Whitehead, too.

    Thatís understandable, given Proctorís handle and Whiteheadís absence. But if Whitehead, once fully healthy and confident, is ďreducedĒ to shooter-slasher rather than sometime/frequent O-initiator, we are unlikely to see the ďfull Whitehead.Ē

  17. #37
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Thatís understandable, given Proctorís handle and Whiteheadís absence. But if Whitehead, once fully healthy and confident, is ďreducedĒ to shooter-slasher rather than sometime/frequent O-initiator, we are unlikely to see the ďfull Whitehead.Ē
    This is, essentially, what happened with Harrison Barnes as well. Hopefully for different reasons of course. But what made Barnes the #1 recruit in his class was that he had the same type of all-around game that Whitehead had in high school. It's just that when he got to UNC, the system they ran de-emphasized slashing from its wing players. So it neutered Barnes' value a bit, as he was only a decent perimeter shooter.

    It remains to be seen if Whitehead is able to translate what he did in high school to the college game. But if Roach and Proctor continue to be the primary offensive initiators, it definitely limits the opportunity for Whitehead to show his all-around game. And he's not such a great shooter as to be as impactful off the ball.

    Hopefully it's just a matter of getting re-initiated with the offense. Right now, he's playing basically an off/on role. If he gets the ball, he's shooting; if not, he's spotting up in the corner. Eventually, the hope is that he gets more fluidity within the offense and with his fellow playmaking teammates.

  18. #38
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    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    This is, essentially, what happened with Harrison Barnes as well. Hopefully for different reasons of course. But what made Barnes the #1 recruit in his class was that he had the same type of all-around game that Whitehead had in high school. It's just that when he got to UNC, the system they ran de-emphasized slashing from its wing players. So it neutered Barnes' value a bit, as he was only a decent perimeter shooter.

    It remains to be seen if Whitehead is able to translate what he did in high school to the college game. But if Roach and Proctor continue to be the primary offensive initiators, it definitely limits the opportunity for Whitehead to show his all-around game. And he's not such a great shooter as to be as impactful off the ball.

    Hopefully it's just a matter of getting re-initiated with the offense. Right now, he's playing basically an off/on role. If he gets the ball, he's shooting; if not, he's spotting up in the corner. Eventually, the hope is that he gets more fluidity within the offense and with his fellow playmaking teammates.
    I'm hoping Dariq can be the point forward who gets others involved in the offense. My belief is he's better than Flip and Jeremy slashing into the lane. From what I've seen so far, Tyrese is looking more like a point guard than Jeremy. But that's just my eye test.

    GoDuke!

  19. #39
    For a guy ranked in the top 3/5 coming out of high school, he has been rather underwhelming.

    Yes he was always going to be more of a "defensive" guy, but I wonder how much the injury is still bothering him?

    Both him and Lively just can't seem to get into a rhythm. I believe both are better than they have shown so far, but its been some time since we've had such an underwhelming class.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    For a guy ranked in the top 3/5 coming out of high school, he has been rather underwhelming.

    Yes he was always going to be more of a "defensive" guy, but I wonder how much the injury is still bothering him?

    Both him and Lively just can't seem to get into a rhythm. I believe both are better than they have shown so far, but its been some time since we've had such an underwhelming class.
    You can certainly choose your own syntax, but I'm going to wait before I use the word "underwhelming" twice in one post about anyone on our team who has played only nine games.

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