Whitehead

[gumbomoop]

Plenty of commentary about Whitehead, but it’s so scattered among multiple threads that it seems sensible to have a specific thread on him. Could put this in the “Phase I” thread, but as there’s some uncertainty as to when he’ll be 100%, a new, dedicated thread seems preferable.

[Imported from Purdue postgame thread:]

Here is his write-up on 247 Sports: Solid size for a wing. Has quick twitch athleticism. Fast with the basketball. Loves to attack the rim, but has a smooth jumper. Three-level scorer. Has a great pull up jumper going left. Solid ball handler and passer who plays with awareness and instincts. Rebounds his position well. Has tremendous potential as a versatile defender.

The bolded stuff is what stood out to me in his play in the GEICO Nationals. I don’t disagree with a single word in this 247 assessment. However, what most impressed me was not his solid scoring, but his facilitating creativity on O — handle, plus what I’d call vision-passing, owing to his height and instinctual awareness; and on D his versatility and sneakiness, e.g., several times he stole inbounds pass after his team scored.

[hallcity]

Plenty of commentary about Whitehead, but it’s so scattered among multiple threads that it seems sensible to have a specific thread on him. Could put this in the “Phase I” thread, but as there’s some uncertainty as to when he’ll be 100%, a new, dedicated thread seems preferable.

[Imported from Purdue postgame thread:]



The bolded stuff is what stood out to me in his play in the GEICO Nationals. I don’t disagree with a single word in this 247 assessment. However, what most impressed me was not his solid scoring, but his facilitating creativity on O — handle, plus what I’d call vision-passing, owing to his height and instinctual awareness; and on D his versatility and sneakiness, e.g., several times he stole inbounds pass after his team scored.

Even though it's early in his recovery I've been seeing flashes of incredible athleticism from Whitehead. Lively not so much, yet.

[SkyBrickey]

I’ve posted in another thread that people who did follow his HS career or watch video are going to be shocked at how good he is in a month. He’s barely a role player now. He will be one of the most dynamic players in the country by January once all the rust is off. He will take our team to the next level - no doubt in my mind.

[Kedsy]

Years ago, I got a really bad ankle sprain playing ball. I was on the shelf for 8 or 10 weeks. After I was cleared to resume physical activity, my ankle was physically fine, but I was sort of afraid to cut and jump because I (irrationally) didn't entirely trust my ankle to do what it was supposed to. To me, that's what Dariq looked like last night. He'd get the ball, ready himself to drive, then think better of it and pass the ball around the perimeter. On the few times he did drive, he seemed tentative with his jump toward the basket, like he didn't trust his foot to get him all the way there. That was my impression, anyway.

It took me four or five weeks before I was able to forget the ankle and play normally. He's a lot younger than I was, and he has the Duke training staff to help him, so he might get there more quickly, but he also had a more serious injury and he moves a lot faster and jumps a lot higher than I ever could, so going 100% might seem more frightening. He probably just needs another couple weeks to shake it off.

[jv001]

Years ago, I got a really bad ankle sprain playing ball. I was on the shelf for 8 or 10 weeks. After I was cleared to resume physical activity, my ankle was physically fine, but I was sort of afraid to cut and jump because I (irrationally) didn't entirely trust my ankle to do what it was supposed to. To me, that's what Dariq looked like last night. He'd get the ball, ready himself to drive, then think better of it and pass the ball around the perimeter. On the few times he did drive, he seemed tentative with his jump toward the basket, like he didn't trust his foot to get him all the way there. That was my impression, anyway.

It took me four or five weeks before I was able to forget the ankle and play normally. He's a lot younger than I was, and he has the Duke training staff to help him, so he might get there more quickly, but he also had a more serious injury and he moves a lot faster and jumps a lot higher than I ever could, so going 100% might seem more frightening. He probably just needs another couple weeks to shake it off.

I agree 100%. College basketball at Division 1 level is very physical and I'm pretty sure you're correct about Dariq not trusting his ankle just yet. Plus, I believe he's not in the best shape of his playing career because of the missed time. Coach Scheyer said he missed over 3 months of the most important practice time of the season and that the media, and everyone should be patient with him.

GoDuke!

[simplyluvin]

I agree 100%. College basketball at Division 1 level is very physical and I'm pretty sure you're correct about Dariq not trusting his ankle just yet. Plus, I believe he's not in the best shape of his playing career because of the missed time. Coach Scheyer said he missed over 3 months of the most important practice time of the season and that the media, and everyone should be patient with him.

GoDuke!

There are signs that his body isn’t quite doing what his brain wants or is accustomed to. Last night he took a baseline jumper that I believe he airballed. I’ll bet his normal self would make that shot easily, but he’s rushing because he hasn’t caught up to college game speed and his body isn’t reacting the way he’s used to. But there are signs of explosiveness and even a good shooting stroke. He also made a smooth baseline 3 last night that was in rhythm. Hopefully that stirs confidence; that and reps are what he needs.

[JasonEvans]

This is probably a good place to drop this...

Take a look at these minutes played and points scored by a recent Duke player through the first month of the season:

11min, 2pts (against Kentucky)
10min, 2pts
6min, 3pts
16min, 5pts
21min, 18pts (against a Colonial conference school that does not offer scholarships)
11min, 2pts
6min, 0pts (against Gonzaga)
2min, 0pts (against Ohio State in B10 challenge)

Dude looks close to worthless. A grand total of 3 points scored against legit opponents and barely even in the rotation. He was coming off of a pre-season injury and it seemed doubtful he would become much of anything.

By the time we got to Christmas, he was raining threes all over the place and routinely scoring in the mid-teens. That summer, he was taken just outside the lottery.

I, of course, am talking about AJ Griffin.

The notion that Dariq Whitehead isn't going to be a hugely impactful player for Duke a month from now seems laughable to me.

[dukelifer]

This is probably a good place to drop this...

Take a look at these minutes played and points scored by a recent Duke player through the first month of the season:

11min, 2pts (against Kentucky)
10min, 2pts
6min, 3pts
16min, 5pts
21min, 18pts (against a Colonial conference school that does not offer scholarships)
11min, 2pts
6min, 0pts (against Gonzaga)
2min, 0pts (against Ohio State in B10 challenge)

Dude looks close to worthless. A grand total of 3 points scored against legit opponents and barely even in the rotation. He was coming off of a pre-season injury and it seemed doubtful he would become much of anything.

By the time we got to Christmas, he was raining threes all over the place and routinely scoring in the mid-teens. That summer, he was taken just outside the lottery.

I, of course, am talking about AJ Griffin.

The notion that Dariq Whitehead isn't going to be a hugely impactful player for Duke a month from now seems laughable to me.

To be fair- no one knew what Duke might get from AJ and his elite shooting was a great addition. Dariq was expected to be this year’s Paolo. But I agree that he will get better- time will tell how good.

[CDu]

To be fair- no one knew what Duke might get from AJ and his elite shooting was a great addition. Dariq was expected to be this year’s Paolo. But I agree that he will get better- time will tell how good.

Also to be fair, if Whitehead winds up having a season like Griffin's (10.4 ppg for the season, 12.6 ppg in conference play, 10.9 ppg in the ACCT and NCAAT), that would be a bit disappointing relative to expectations given his recruiting ranking (which suggests he should be a 1st Team All-ACC and potential All-American).

I have little doubt that Whitehead will get a lot better. The question is whether "a lot better" is like Griffin, like Reddish, like Barnes, or a 1st Team All-ACC/potential All-American. Hopefully more like the latter end and less like the former end.

[jv001]

Also to be fair, if Whitehead winds up having a season like Griffin's (10.4 ppg for the season, 12.6 ppg in conference play, 10.9 ppg in the ACCT and NCAAT), that would be a bit disappointing relative to expectations given his recruiting ranking (which suggests he should be a 1st Team All-ACC and potential All-American).

I have little doubt that Whitehead will get a lot better. The question is whether "a lot better" is like Griffin, like Reddish, like Barnes, or a 1st Team All-ACC/potential All-American. Hopefully more like the latter end and less like the former end.

I really feel dirty now as I couldn't remember much about Barnes, other than his dirty recruitment announcement. So, I looked up some of his stats for his two seasons at cheatville.

His freshmen year he improved as the season went on. He hit his stride in the ACCT and the NCAAT. For the season he averaged 15.6 ppg and lead all freshmen in scoring. He was named Freshmen of the Year. In the cheats 4 NCAA tournament games he averaged 21.5 ppg. His regular season shooting percentage .421% wasn't nothing to write home about. He shot 34% on his 3-point attempts. His sophomore year he averaged 17.1 ppg on 44% fg and 36% on his 3-pointers.

I guess he was an ok player but for all the excitement in his recruiting, he underperformed except for his play in the NCAAT his freshmen year.

Now I must go take a hot shower.

GoDuke and GTHC!!

[SouthernDukie]

Also to be fair, if Whitehead winds up having a season like Griffin's (10.4 ppg for the season, 12.6 ppg in conference play, 10.9 ppg in the ACCT and NCAAT), that would be a bit disappointing relative to expectations given his recruiting ranking (which suggests he should be a 1st Team All-ACC and potential All-American).

I have little doubt that Whitehead will get a lot better. The question is whether "a lot better" is like Griffin, like Reddish, like Barnes, or a 1st Team All-ACC/potential All-American. Hopefully more like the latter end and less like the former end.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Memory tells me AJ Griffin was NOT the #2 rated player in his class. The entire discussion with Whitehead revolves around expectations for the #2 rated player. Not whether he will or won't get better as the season progresses.

The real question is will he live up to the ranking? And the same can be said of Lively. All of us know that these two were injured and it will take some time for them to get "up to speed", so to speak. But will they even come close to what would reasonably be expected of the #1 & #2 players in the class? That is the question. And our reasonable expectations for this Duke season hang in the balance, imho.

[DavidBenAkiva]

You took the words right out of my mouth. Memory tells me AJ Griffin was NOT the #2 rated player in his class. The entire discussion with Whitehead revolves around expectations for the #2 rated player. Not whether he will or won't get better as the season progresses.

The real question is will he live up to the ranking? And the same can be said of Lively. All of us know that these two were injured and it will take some time for them to get "up to speed", so to speak. But will they even come close to what would reasonably be expected of the #1 & #2 players in the class? That is the question. And our reasonable expectations for this Duke season hang in the balance, imho.

At one point in time, during the summer before his junior year of high school, AJ Griffin was a top ~5 recruit in his class. In addition to that jumper, he was a defensive monster. Then, due to a combination of injuries and COVID, he hardly played for 2 years.

Whitehead's situation is a little different. He was consistently among the best players in his class throughout his high school career. He doesn't have an injury history. A broken foot is kind of a fluke thing and doesn't have a track record of limiting a player's long-term health like a knee injury or ligament tear might. He may have a similar trajectory to Griffin while at Duke, but their situations are very different. I think there's a chance that Whitehead starts to really assert himself in a way that Griffin couldn't or wouldn't while he was at Duke.

[dm9e24]

I hope Whitehead has a more impactful season than AJ. Despite the 10 ppg, he was mostly invisible, especially on defense. I also hope he isn't playing with the thought in his head of getting hurt again and affecting his draft standing. He's only human, though, and that could be his biggest hurdle. I remember Elton breaking his foot and missing around three months and then coming back with not quite the game he was showing early on in his freshman year. He came back to have a monster sophomore season. Unfortunately, we won't see that from Whitehead. Which is the downside of the OAD era.

[azzefkram]

If Dariq (and, to a lesser extent, Dereck) are scuffling around in mid-January, then I will be worried. Before then, it strikes me as needless hand-wringing.

[roywhite]

After the BC game, I'm seeing more of the positive things that Lively brings to this team -- shot blocking and shot altering, ability to run the floor for a big man, proficiency in executing lob plays, and general movement on defense.

I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there? With AJ Griffin last year, after a few games, one could see that he had an exceptionally soft shot and excellent, balanced form.

[gumbomoop]

I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there?

Once he’s fully healthy, with practice reps, say, mid-January: vision-passing, because he’s tall and court-alert; and strong to the basket, because he’s powerful, with excellent handle and big first step.

I’ve posted this before: in an odd way, Proctor’s reclass means Whitehead simply won’t have the ball as much. And Blakes, too, has the ball some, so far.

So I don’t think Whitehead will have a chance to dominate as much as might otherwise be the case. But his play and strengths on both O and D will be very noticeable.

[jv001]

Once he’s fully healthy, with practice reps, say, mid-January: vision-passing, because he’s tall and court-alert; and strong to the basket, because he’s powerful, with excellent handle and big first step.

I’ve posted this before: in an odd way, Proctor’s reclass means Whitehead simply won’t have the ball as much. And Blakes, too, has the ball some, so far.

So I don’t think Whitehead will have a chance to dominate as much as might otherwise be the case. But his play and strengths on both O and D will be very noticeable.

I'm glad that we don't have a ball dominant player this season. It's been fun to see the ball moving more and if we begin to shoot better, our offense will be fine. I think Dariq will be a good defender and he's coming along nicely. Mid-January sounds good to me.

GoDuke!

[MChambers]

After the BC game, I'm seeing more of the positive things that Lively brings to this team -- shot blocking and shot altering, ability to run the floor for a big man, proficiency in executing lob plays, and general movement on defense.

I'm not yet seeing what Whitehead's strong points are. Defense perhaps as he can match up vs a range of positions. But where are the strong points on offense, or what are we expecting to emerge? Shooting, shot selection, good ball handling -- what are we looking for there? With AJ Griffin last year, after a few games, one could see that he had an exceptionally soft shot and excellent, balanced form.

Ball handling and scoring. Also, did you see that offensive rebound and put back? Not many wings can do that. Or his excellent release on the fast break, with Grandison throwing a pass not many can catch? His shot is getting better, too.

Whitehead is getting better, more slowly than I or he would like, but it's coming. He'll make this team a lot better when the calendar turns.

[Bob Green]

Ball handling and scoring.

Whitehead is getting better, more slowly than I or he would like, but it's coming. He'll make this team a lot better when the calendar turns.

I’m not seeing your first point (yet) as he had three turnovers yesterday but I agree fully with your more important second point.

[DukieInBrasil]

Also to be fair, if Whitehead winds up having a season like Griffin's (10.4 ppg for the season, 12.6 ppg in conference play, 10.9 ppg in the ACCT and NCAAT), that would be a bit disappointing relative to expectations given his recruiting ranking (which suggests he should be a 1st Team All-ACC and potential All-American).

I have little doubt that Whitehead will get a lot better. The question is whether "a lot better" is like Griffin, like Reddish, like Barnes, or a 1st Team All-ACC/potential All-American. Hopefully more like the latter end and less like the former end.

Even if Dariq performs at a level more "like the former" that would still elevate Duke's overall play quite a bit. So far his play is equivalent to that of a mediocre backup, which is to say slightly worse than mediocre. But there's been improvement, and that drive late in the game where he finished a driving flip/lay in was a big step forward in terms of showing what he can do. If Dariq raises his level of play to All-ACC level, i imagine Duke battling for the #1 seed in the ACCT.
...and if Lively starts playing up to his ranking, i think there's little stopping Duke from that #1 seed. So far, or at least in the last 2 games, Lively is playing closer to expectations, but this team could get really, really fun to watch if they both do!

Did Cam Reddish “live up to” his #3 ranking? He didn’t have a significant injury, from what I recall, and he had Zion and RJ taking the focus of opposing defenses, which consistently freed up Cam for open shots. Yet, many on this board seemed to be of the opinion that Duke very likely would have won the national championship had Cam been more of a consistent force on offense.

Yes, he played solid defense most of the time, but he wasn’t much of a passer and he had a propensity for committing turnovers at key moments.

So did he live up to his ranking? I don’t have a definitive opinion on this question; I’m just offering it up as food for thought.

IMHO (where the H shows up withe same erratic frequency as Cam Reddish's game): No. Which is not to say that Cam had a bad year, he was quite good. But the erratic nature of his play really diminished my appreciation for what he brought to the table. Had Cam just had a more consistent 3pt shot I think the defenses that were employed vs Duke in the NCAAT would have allowed for more Zion domination, and even some more RJ. What that team lacked was outside shooting, which took away the best attributes of all 3 of those top recruits. Heck, if Jack White could have just impersonated a Price Is Right contestant and bought a 3pt shot every once in a while, that team might have taken the title. (speaking of...Jack is playing some for DEN, and has yet to score, but still, he's in the NBA!)

I'm glad that we don't have a ball dominant player this season. It's been fun to see the ball moving more and if we begin to shoot better, our offense will be fine. I think Dariq will be a good defender and he's coming along nicely. Mid-January sounds good to me.
GoDuke!

When Jeremy gets it in his head that he needs to be the man (ball dominant), it can turn into quite the adventure. Some times he has just enough advantage, or the defensive plan is just open enough for him, that he looks quite good in that role. Other times, he just doesn't have what it takes to pull it off.
I too like the improved ball movement this team is showing so far. For example, our guards vs BC had 11 assists and 0 turnovers. That's great! Their FG% as a group was poor but they were finding their teammates for good shots.