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  1. #81
    A lot of hand wringing. Lively and Whitehead are going to be so much better by January. Whitehead will likely be leading us in scoring.

    Iím pretty convinced thatís a Final Four caliber team that beat us today. Now we know where the bar is. Just got to keep working.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    It was beautiful team basketball from a bunch of experienced players.
    Beautiful team bball, yes. But their 2 guards are both frosh. Our guys left Loyer too often ó ďNo, donít leave that guyĒ ó and he was 4/8 on 3s. And their other frosh guard had 8 rebounds, 3 more than anyone on Duke.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    Couldn't agree more...it was beautiful team basketball from a bunch of experienced players. Those were juniors and seniors I think and its really hard for our freshmen to understand and know how to play together like these guys didÖ.big difference other than the 7í4 guys was that Purdue passed the ball around and we dribbled it around which is an inferior way to attack the defenseÖ.we will see how good a coach Scheyer is as he has a season worth of instructional tape in one game for our guysÖdisappointed with our composure and don't really see much in our offense that resembled set plays which I think is a key to any win...hopefully by the end of the season these freshmen will not be freshmen...but Purdue to my eye has got to be the early favorite to win it all...our guys should look at that game film weekly imo and my bet is Coach will be on it. Lot to learn from that game. Bet Purdue jumps to inside Top 5...they deserve to be there, imo

    On another note, would have loved seeing the matchup between Mark Williams and ole Edey bet we would have held our on with that matchup and for sure Roach could have used Trevor as a running mate...and my guess for sure Keels wishes he were back...dude is costing him a lot of money playing in G league with a non guaranteed contract...he would have made NIL money this year probably matching what he makes this year and bet he would have been a top 20 pick net w guaranteed money...unfortunately he'll be lucky to ever get back to the "bigs". Feel sorry for him.
    This is probably fodder for another thread, but this would have been Mathew Hurtís senior year. There are a handful of players who left but might be making more if they stayed at Duke. Keels would be another, but maybe we donít get Proctor. Too many ďwhat could have beensĒÖ..

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    This was our last chance to beat a ranked opponent until Feb 4 vs unc (who Iím counting on being ranked then - and Iowa is about to fall out). And thatís followed by at Miami and at UVA. Thatís going to be a brutally rough stretch.

    Even though itís a loss in November itís still a very important loss when it comes to factoring anything in March. I see an uphill battle for this team all season long. We canít lose many of the games weíll be favored to win coming up in Dec and Jan. Also, Ohio St is now a huge game. Maybe itís jumping the gun calling it a must win (for tournament hopes), but sort of feels like it.
    Wow- calling the season at this point. Duke may end up like UNC last year and sneak in the tourney and then get to the final game
    dukelifer

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC

    The hand-wringing....

    ...oh, my lord.

    DBR has been my home page since the days of the parquet floor background and the Sagarmatha board system (remember the posting codes?). And this is, without question, the most depressing thread I've read here.

    People are very, very, very certain about how low our ceiling is...in November...when we have two returning players. Geez. A couple of points

    1) Just two years ago, we missed the tournament. This team looks a whole helluva better than that team

    2) The big thing today was the shooting - but it was that we missed open shots. And it definitely got in our heads. We were up 12-7. missed two wide open shots, and the wheels came off our offense.

    3) Do people really believe that we will shoot 2-19 from 3 every game? Because...we won't. We may not be a good 3 point shooting team, but we won't be that bad.

    4) Whatever we may think of the strategy or tactics, we will NEVER play another team with Zack Edey. He's unique, he's very, very, very good, Purdue built their team to take advantage of his stregnths, and, oh yeah, we had basically a day to prepare for them in the 8th game of the season

    5) Two players who were expected to start for this team are still working their way back from injuries - and they clearly aren't there yet.

    6) Today was a deeply, deeply frustrating game to watch. We missed a lot of wide open, good shots early, forced a lot of shots late, committed too many fouls, and didn't play with a helluva lot of poise. But we did play with a lot of guts, and resillience. We got back into the game when we could have just folded our tents. It was a good test.

    7) Last point, for those make predictions about what this team will be...I mean, Gonzaga lost to these guys by a lot and barely beat Xavier (sounds familiar). Carolina lost twice. Do we see an absolute dominant team in the country this year? Maybe. But I don't know. I also remember the conversation I had with third-grade teacher spouse. At the beginning of the year, it was always, "They are so baby-ish" and my response was "That's because you remember last year's class at the end. Not at the beginning -when they were just as immature as this group". There's a lot of remembering fully formed teams and comparing them to team that has played 8 games.

    Lots of the doomsaying about this team may not be wrong, but the doomsayers are far, far too confident that they are correct.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post
    ...oh, my lord.
    legit. we have a new team and a new coach...both of whom are figuring it out. Yeah we didn't look great today, but we also cut a big lead down to 6 or 7. I don't know if we, or J will figure it out this year, but I'm here for the ride, and have not lowered the bar on the possible outcomes based on today...
    1200. DDMF.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    A lot of hand wringing. Lively and Whitehead are going to be so much better by January. Whitehead will likely be leading us in scoring.

    Iím pretty convinced thatís a Final Four caliber team that beat us today. Now we know where the bar is. Just got to keep working.
    I will be pleasantly surprised if Lively has been hiding his offensive potential - but i don't think so. I honestly believe Reeves has more offensive skill The season will likely come down to how good Whitehead really is as a player. So far he has been like a Freshman Gerald Henderson. I am not sure he will be much better than that this season- but time will tell.
    dukelifer

  8. #88
    I think a lot of folks here would feel better if they watched Purdue v Gonzaga. They did the exact same thing to the Zags. Controlled the entire game. And the Zags are experienced and a preseason top 3 team. Purdue and Edey are a unique challenge.

  9. #89
    Kind of thinking this crop of freshmen are not as good as advertised.

    We're going to have to do alot of growing up if we are to get a 2-3 seed in the tournament this March.

    Its going to be a tough tough tough maiden year for coach Scheyer.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I appreciated the fight and effort. Nice comeback, but never got that key bucket to get it close enough.

    I loved the Whitehead drive to jam. Sure he got fouled and didnít finish, and he still isnít there. But in my opinion, what he may offer is what this team needs.

    And, a little better shooting from 3 would be nice. I hate that our worst 3p shooting was against the best teams we played (if I am remembering right). But, it didnít feel like we were missing shots because of great D - just missing shots.

    It will be really interesting to see what we look like in mid-January.

    Unfortunately, Heels are looking great

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    I think a lot of folks here would feel better if they watched Purdue v Gonzaga. They did the exact same thing to the Zags. Controlled the entire game. And the Zags are experienced and a preseason top 3 team. Purdue and Edey are a unique challenge.
    Well the Zags have been overrated and Purdue underrated. Yes Purdue is a good team that is well coached with a unicorn in the center. I think we fans are beginning to see that this Duke team has no Parker or Bagley, or Zion, or Banchero. Such pro-level players can erase a lot of issues that come with youth. Flip is good but a big step below those four. Surprisingly Lively and Whitehead are also not those guys- just promising Freshman. Hard to win with so many new pieces and no real pros in a college jersey. It will be an interesting season.
    dukelifer

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Yes Purdue is a good team that is well coached with a unicorn in the center. I think we fans are beginning to see that this Duke team has no Parker or Bagley, or Zion, or Banchero. Such pro-level players can erase a lot of issues that come with youth.
    Zion's team nearly lost to Tacko Fall in the second round, another unique guy that is impossible to plan for. So I agree with you but I also don't think the lack of an elite pro limits our ceiling. I also don't think Flip is that far behind those other guys when you factor in his defense and rebounding.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    Zion's team nearly lost to Tacko Fall in the second round, another unique guy that is impossible to plan for. So I agree with you but I also don't think the lack of an elite pro limits our ceiling. I also don't think Flip is that far behind those other guys when you factor in his defense and rebounding.
    Flip is really good but I think a step below. Yes Zionís team almost lost and also suffered from below average outside shooting. Still it is very hard to get a young team to play as a unit. Scheyer will do his best.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by dyedwab View Post
    ...oh, my lord.

    DBR has been my home page since the days of the parquet floor background and the Sagarmatha board system (remember the posting codes?). I remember the posting codes... And this is, without question, the most depressing thread I've read here.

    People are very, very, very certain about how low our ceiling is...in November...when we have two returning players. Geez. A couple of points

    1) Just two years ago, we missed the tournament. This team looks a whole helluva better than that team

    2) The big thing today was the shooting - but it was that we missed open shots. And it definitely got in our heads. We were up 12-7. missed two wide open shots, and the wheels came off our offense.

    3) Do people really believe that we will shoot 2-19 from 3 every game? Because...we won't. We may not be a good 3 point shooting team, but we won't be that bad.

    4) Whatever we may think of the strategy or tactics, we will NEVER play another team with Zack Edey. Well... we may play Purdue again in the tournament... He's unique, he's very, very, very good, Purdue built their team to take advantage of his stregnths, and, oh yeah, we had basically a day to prepare for them in the 8th game of the season

    5) Two players who were expected to start for this team are still working their way back from injuries - and they clearly aren't there yet.

    6) Today was a deeply, deeply frustrating game to watch. We missed a lot of wide open, good shots early, forced a lot of shots late, committed too many fouls, and didn't play with a helluva lot of poise. But we did play with a lot of guts, and resillience. We got back into the game when we could have just folded our tents. It was a good test.

    7) Last point, for those make predictions about what this team will be...I mean, Gonzaga lost to these guys by a lot and barely beat Xavier (sounds familiar). Carolina lost twice. Do we see an absolute dominant team in the country this year? Maybe. But I don't know. I also remember the conversation I had with third-grade teacher spouse. At the beginning of the year, it was always, "They are so baby-ish" and my response was "That's because you remember last year's class at the end. Not at the beginning -when they were just as immature as this group". There's a lot of remembering fully formed teams and comparing them to team that has played 8 games.

    Lots of the doomsaying about this team may not be wrong, but the doomsayers are far, far too confident that they are correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by RepoMan View Post
    I appreciated the fight and effort. Nice comeback, but never got that key bucket to get it close enough.

    I loved the Whitehead drive to jam. Sure he got fouled and didnít finish, and he still isnít there. But in my opinion, what he may offer is what this team needs.

    And, a little better shooting from 3 would be nice. I hate that our worst 3p shooting was against the best teams we played (if I am remembering right). But, it didnít feel like we were missing shots because of great D - just missing shots.

    It will be really interesting to see what we look like in mid-January.

    Unfortunately, Heels are looking great
    Bolded... underlined... responses

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Flip is really good but I think a step below. Yes Zionís team almost lost and also suffered from below average outside shooting. Still it is very hard to get a young team to play as a unit. Scheyer will do his best.
    I want to replay this thread in January when Whitehead is 100%. Yíall donít understand whatís coming. He will be a dominant force. Able to get to the rim and hit pull up jumpers at will. He will draw a lot of defensive attention and open it up for others.

    Iím not saying he will be NBA Michael Jordan. But he will be college Michael Jordan. Wait for itÖ.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Lucky Duke is at Cameron Wednesday. We need some good karma.Maybe it would not hurt to give Schutt some minutes and see if he can hit a 3. Proctor can not do the one step forward 2 steps back game. Good shooting will solve a few problems. UCONN gets 2 championships. Never liked that school since '99 team.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    I want to replay this thread in January when Whitehead is 100%. Yíall donít understand whatís coming. He will be a dominant force. Able to get to the rim and hit pull up jumpers at will. He will draw a lot of defensive attention and open it up for others.

    Iím not saying he will be NBA Michael Jordan. But he will be college Michael Jordan. Wait for itÖ.
    I hope you are right. I haven't seen anything remotely approaching what you are talking about yet.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    I hope you are right. I haven't seen anything remotely approaching what you are talking about yet.
    Heís maybe at 80%. And that missing 20% at this level of elite play is everything. Heís an absolute stud. Obvious in all his pre college action. Trust me. He will be one of the top players in the country before the season is over.

    I think Proctor will turn into 12-14 pts per game hitting his 3s. Flip will improve some. Roach will be Roach. Then weíll just need solid, not spectacular play, from the other guys to have a top offense.

    Like others I do question how Lively is the #1 recruit in the country with no apparent post game. But I think we just have to give him time to adapt. I was actually proud of his effort against Edey today. He is a competitor.
    Last edited by SkyBrickey; 11-28-2022 at 01:19 AM.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    This was our last chance to beat a ranked opponent until Feb 4 vs unc (who I’m counting on being ranked then - and Iowa is about to fall out). And that’s followed by at Miami and at UVA. That’s going to be a brutally rough stretch.

    Even though it’s a loss in November it’s still a very important loss when it comes to factoring anything in March. I see an uphill battle for this team all season long. We can’t lose many of the games we’ll be favored to win coming up in Dec and Jan. Also, Ohio St is now a huge game. Maybe it’s jumping the gun calling it a must win (for tournament hopes), but sort of feels like it.
    OSU isn't currently ranked, but they are 19 on KenPom, and a win over them would likely still be a good resume win come tournament time. Now we just gotta make sure we beat them . . .

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Heís maybe at 80%. And that missing 20% at this level of elite play is everything. Heís an absolute stud. Obvious in all his pre college action. Trust me. He will be one of the top players in the country before the season is over.
    Although I do not think Whitehead will be the college Jordan, I do think he will play superbly this season. Right now Iíd say heís more like 60%, so Iíll hope heís close to 100% by sometime in January.

    My concern is that Proctorís reclass has potentially presented an odd problem, in that Whitehead is unlikely to have the ball in his hands enough to create for others, which is as much his strength as being a scorer.

    But I do expect Whitehead to be a very strong defender, when 100%. There wonít be any odd problem on D.

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