MBB: Duke 56, Purdue 75 Post-Game Thread

[LasVegas]

Black jerseys take the L again. As soon as I saw Duke wearing them, I knew it was going to be an uphill battle. Those suckers need tossed into the fire.

[FerryFor50]

It's not an accident that those guys were open. The Mitchell wide open three that he missed I remember was on a possession where we went small and had Flip as our only big. Purdue responded by having Edey guard Mitchell as they knew he could leave him open on the perimeter.

Mitchell has been one of Duke’s best three point shooters this season. (42.9% with 2 attempts per game)

He only took two 3s today and one was partially blocked because of his slow release. The one wide open one he missed was a good look and I’m happy with him taking those.

Duke’s issue wasn’t Mark’s shot, but the inability to stop Edey, which resulted in defensive breakdowns off action to Edey (he’s a good passer, too). Edey also created a lot of foul trouble, rebounded well, etc.

If they had no Edey, it’s a way different game. The best chance Duke would have had was to try to get Edey in some foul trouble, but apparently he never fouls (despite a few missed arm bars/grabs).

Despite getting down big, Duke got back into it with an active zone defense, but then frittered away any chances to come back with bad shot selection, rushed/out of control offense and dumb turnovers. That’s youth and experience. Hopefully a season is enough to have them grow up enough.

We already see Proctor improving immensely. Remember when people on this board started saying he’s overrated? Similar to what they’re saying about Dariq and Lively?

Lively played as well as you could expect against a skilled guy that was 4 inches taller and had a 60lb weight advantage. Held his own as much as he could.

Better ball movement and better matchups will help this team. They’ll learn from this loss.

[FerryFor50]

• Edey didn't beat us. Purdue beat us..

Purdue doesn’t beat us without Edey.

[jipops]

Wow, 1 point in the final 9 minutes. Not sure the personnel is there for a decent offense.

[kAzE]

This was the first game where I thought we looked like the inexperienced team we are. We were thoroughly beaten by a top 10 (arguably top 5) team with a ton of continuity from their veteran players to their coaching staff. Duke is probably in the #15-20 range right now, and that's okay. We will improve.

The shooting has got to improve. It was bad in this tournament, but I refuse to believe we are this bad at shooting. There is absolutely no way Tyrese Proctor guy keeps missing wide open shots. He just needs to get his mind right. Apart from not hitting a 3 pointer, it was great to see him be aggressive looking to score this game. We need more of that, and I think we will get it. Hopefully the shot starts to fall as well, it will open things up for the whole team if so.

Just overall, a lot of freshmen mistakes in this one, and Purdue made us pay almost every time with their great ball movement and shooting. They beat the crap out of us just playing awesome team basketball, hats off to them.

[tommy]

Like others, I'm encouraged by what I saw from Proctor's midrange game and his ability to get to the hoop and finish. We need more penetration for sure -- we get it from Roach, but we need more than just him. I for one have been counting on Whitehead being a slasher/penetrator but we have not seen that yet. Of course the shooting was atrocious, and we compounded it by having guys like Mitchell and Blakes shooting from distance in crunch time, which just can't happen. Everyone is lamenting that we don't have any shooters, but wasn't Jacob Grandison brought in specifically because he is a guy who is a proven shooter at the high major level? He seems like he's almost ready to fall out of the rotation entirely. I'd try to find him some minutes, and soon, to get him some confidence and get his shot on track. We badly need it.

Jon deserves credit for going to the zone to start to dig us out of the hole, but I was disappointed in the defensive strategy that got us into that hole in the first place. When a guy like Edey, who is unblockable and shoots very well over one shoulder when he is in rhythm, gets the ball in the post, you simply can NOT allow him two or even three dribbles to get that rhythm, get closer to the basket, and flip the ball in. You HAVE to send a man at him to prevent those dribbles from happening and that rhythm from being established. Sure, he's a good passer and they were hitting shots today too. Fine. If they're going to do that, they're going to be hard to beat. But we made it way too easy for Edey to get the ball in good position and then take his sweet time with a few dribbles to load up the shot. We did not make an adjustment to that while we were still playing man. That was a strategic mistake that put us in the hole that we never dug out of.

[simplyluvin]

Well, one might say that analysis benefits from a bit of hindsight. At this point, I don’t think many foresaw the levels Kennard and Jackson would attain, and Tatum was still a hypothetical. Maybe Whitehead approaches Tatum, Proctor takes a leap like Jackson, and junior Roach approximates junior Grayson. Seems like a pipe dream right now, but so would your analysis at this point in that season.

Not sure where you’re going with the benefit of hindsight notion. I mean, everything is hindsight in a way, and we try to use historical comps as a way of substantiating, albeit imprecisely, observations and gut feelings we have on our current team’s performances. Without hindsight, I suppose there isn’t that much to talk about.

And I wasn’t taking quite the leap that you are with the player to player comps, outside of the Whitehead-Tatum comp because of the injury commonality to a marquee newcomer. My point is that our ceiling seems to be close to that 2017 team if our new guys heal and develop well.

[kAzE]

Jon deserves credit for going to the zone to start to dig us out of the hole, but I was disappointed in the defensive strategy that got us into that hole in the first place. When a guy like Edey, who is unblockable and shoots very well over one shoulder when he is in rhythm, gets the ball in the post, you simply can NOT allow him two or even three dribbles to get that rhythm, get closer to the basket, and flip the ball in. You HAVE to send a man at him to prevent those dribbles from happening and that rhythm from being established. Sure, he's a good passer and they were hitting shots today too. Fine. If they're going to do that, they're going to be hard to beat. But we made it way too easy for Edey to get the ball in good position and then take his sweet time with a few dribbles to load up the shot. We did not make an adjustment to that while we were still playing man. That was a strategic mistake that put us in the hole that we never dug out of.

I don't think it was any strategic mistake that cost us this game. They were just better than us, and they figured out a way to beat everything we threw at them. I thought Lively played Edey really well 1 on 1, he was probably 4 for 6 on that jump hook over his left shoulder, which I thought Dereck did a pretty good job of contesting. When we tried to cut him off from getting to the middle, he dropped stepped back to the left and dunked it. We did send a 2nd defender a few times, but we weren't able to produce any turnovers, and they usually found the open man and made us pay. They struggled against the zone for awhile but towards the end, they started finding their shooters. We just could not figure out a way to score.

They just beat us no matter what we did. That's a damn good team. We just are not on their level right now.

[cbarry]

You and me both! I was in the chat calling for zone. We should have gone zone in the first half after getting burned inside time and time again.
Once we did go zone, it was largely effective.
I guess us medical folks have to scream a bit louder to be heard!

I was calling for the zone a LONG time before Scheyer

[Music man55]

Taking an L at this time of year, especially against a team like Purdue, really doesn’t bother me. Just seeing Roach back out there playing was a relief. Hope he is going to be OK. Lively and Whitehead are going to get there, it may be in Janurary before we see it. Proctor played with a lot of heart. I like how we continued to battle and I thought that Purdue really exposed our in- experience today. This team is going to be fun to watch. As long as we stay healthy and compete, I like our chances come March. Go Duke!

[scottdude8]

Not sure where you’re going with the benefit of hindsight notion. I mean, everything is hindsight in a way, and we try to use historical comps as a way of substantiating, albeit imprecisely, observations and gut feelings we have on our current team’s performances. Without hindsight, I suppose there isn’t that much to talk about.

And I wasn’t taking quite the leap that you are with the player to player comps, outside of the Whitehead-Tatum comp because of the injury commonality to a marquee newcomer. My point is that our ceiling seems to be close to that 2017 team if our new guys heal and develop well.

Ahh, I guess I misunderstood. I read your post as saying we were NOT on par with the 2017 team. My bad!

[cbarry]

Good to see Roach back, but I’m really worried this is a turf toe they could have him out for awhile.

also, we scored 1 point in the final 9:15. They can never happen again.

[SkyBrickey]

All of Proctor’s 3 pt misses this season - and there have been a lot - have been good misses. Front of the rim. Back of the rim. A lot of these should start falling. Maybe the good game today will carryover to his shooting. Because of his size and ability to create separation, he gets a lot of clean looks from 3. We need those dropping at 35%+.

[kako]

I've posted something like this in some year before, but to dust it off, make a few edits and post it again..

Such voices of pessimism. I remind people that it's still freakin' November. Unless Duke smokes [insert top-ranked team here] early in the season and is undefeated, after a loss or two some people will say this team is doomed, its ceiling is limited. To go so far as to predict failure in the tourney (or to predict hoisting the trophy) is so premature when Duke hasn't even played a conference game. A wise coach once said that a season is a lifetime. And over any lifetime, some early mistakes and failures are to be expected. But what do successful teams do? They learn from them. The [insert last game Duke lost to here] loss doesn't mean we are destined to be a first weekend washout in the NCAAs or not even make the tourney. Do we have weaknesses? Sure. Let's see how the coaching staff uses the loss to address those issues. But Duke has the talent to win it all, especially if they learn to play well as a team. In November, it *always* remains to be seen if they will or will not.

(Caveat - here is where my post has another significant variable different that before. It's not K on the sideline. So let's see how the Scheyer regime works this. I haven't posted this before, but long-term I think as long as this team makes the S16, Scheyer's reign will be off to a very successful start).

9F

[freshmanjs]

I've posted something like this in some year before, but to dust it off, make a few edits and post it again..

Such voices of pessimism. I remind people that it's still freakin' November. Unless Duke smokes [insert top-ranked team here] early in the season and is undefeated, after a loss or two some people will say this team is doomed, its ceiling is limited. To go so far as to predict failure in the tourney (or to predict hoisting the trophy) is so premature when Duke hasn't even played a conference game. A wise coach once said that a season is a lifetime. And over any lifetime, some early mistakes and failures are to be expected. But what do successful teams do? They learn from them. The [insert last game Duke lost to here] loss doesn't mean we are destined to be a first weekend washout in the NCAAs or not even make the tourney. Do we have weaknesses? Sure. Let's see how the coaching staff uses the loss to address those issues. But Duke has the talent to win it all, especially if they learn to play well as a team. In November, it *always* remains to be seen if they will or will not.

(Caveat - here is where my post has another significant variable different that before. It's not K on the sideline. So let's see how the Scheyer regime works this. I haven't posted this before, but long-term I think as long as this team makes the S16, Scheyer's reign will be off to a very successful start).

9F

Agree. I love when people start to predict who is a first weekend team or which round various teams will get to in November. It's impossible to make those predictions in March and even more so now. Did 2011 UCLA look like a "first weekend team" or a "elite 8/final 4 team"? - to use the phrasing that an earlier poster in this thread used.

[Sluggo]

You and me both! I was in the chat calling for zone. We should have gone zone in the first half after getting burned inside time and time again.
Once we did go zone, it was largely effective.
I guess us medical folks have to scream a bit louder to be heard!

Me three! Wouldn’t the coaches went into the game concerned about how we’d handle Edey and made a quicker change to plan B, zone, rather than waiting until we’re down 20, not to mention all the fouls it lead to? A lot of US were concerned in advance, surely they weren’t taken by surprise. I was also wishing we’d drive at Edey more and try to get him in foul trouble.

Proctor was definitely a bright spot.

On to the next game, really hoping Roach is OK.

[DukieInBrasil]

The fact of the matter is that this team has trouble shooting the ball, and on top of that does not have much in the way of driving to create. Roach does that well at times, and Flip is hit-or-miss when creating. If Proctor can continue hitting jumpers off of drives that will be immensely beneficial. However, 10% from 3 is not going to win many games. Offensively, the game was a train wreck for Duke withe only bright spot being the emergence of Tyrese Proctor, who made multiple nice jumpers. Although he still can't buy a 3pt shot.
Proctor played well, Filipowski played well, again. But the other Fr. were an unmitigated disaster, shooting a combined 3-16 FGs. They missed open shots and they forced a lot of shots that should not have been taken. Not only were they terrible shooting the ball, they were unable to defend very much either (although Lively did get 2 blocks). I'm willing to put their poor defensive performance on Coach Scheyer's inadequate plan, and far-too-late switch to zone.
Duke's vaunted Fr. class is looking very pedestrian so far, with only Filipowski regularly contributing anything of value. Mitchell has had a few good games, and slightly fewer total no-shows. Proctor has had 1 good game (today). Neither Whitehead nor Lively has had anything more than a moderately serviceable game so far.
In the end though, a veteran team that knows how to play together beat a very young team that is still learning how to play together.
In 3 games so far against good teams, Duke is 1-2, with a decent win over a decent Xavier, a close loss to Kansas, and now a total beat-down by Purdue. Duke did not look good.

[kshepinthehouse]

Mitchell has been one of Duke’s best three point shooters this season. (42.9% with 2 attempts per game)

He only took two 3s today and one was partially blocked because of his slow release. The one wide open one he missed was a good look and I’m happy with him taking those.

Duke’s issue wasn’t Mark’s shot, but the inability to stop Edey, which resulted in defensive breakdowns off action to Edey (he’s a good passer, too). Edey also created a lot of foul trouble, rebounded well, etc.

If they had no Edey, it’s a way different game. The best chance Duke would have had was to try to get Edey in some foul trouble, but apparently he never fouls (despite a few missed arm bars/grabs).

Despite getting down big, Duke got back into it with an active zone defense, but then frittered away any chances to come back with bad shot selection, rushed/out of control offense and dumb turnovers. That’s youth and experience. Hopefully a season is enough to have them grow up enough.

We already see Proctor improving immensely. Remember when people on this board started saying he’s overrated? Similar to what they’re saying about Dariq and Lively?

Lively played as well as you could expect against a skilled guy that was 4 inches taller and had a 60lb weight advantage. Held his own as much as he could.

Better ball movement and better matchups will help this team. They’ll learn from this loss.

1. If Mitchell ends up being one of our best three point shooters this team is in trouble. Despite the early, small sample success, that isn't his game. I for one don't want him shooting even wide open threes at significant moments in the game.

2. Without Edey, it's still hard to explain going 2-19 from 3. Not sure we would have won even without Edey had we shot that poorly.

3. I agree zone helped, for a little bit. I agree bad shots took us out of it but as I stated earlier, Mitchell was 0-2 and Blakes was 0-1 (didn't even hit rim) at the time we were clawing back.

4. I agree that Proctor is improving. I think he's a good all around player for us. I think his threes are close and will start falling.

5. Disagree that Lively played as well as we can expect. Sorry, but I was hoping for more this season from the #1 recruit in the nation. He didn't even score. One would think the number one player in the nation would present his own mismatches. Lively blocks some shots but he's also kind of wild and out of control and fouls a lot. I thought he was better at timing his blocked shots but it appears he relies more on his athleticism. I also thought he could have gotten called for about 10 fouls in this game. He did foul out.

[kshepinthehouse]

Purdue doesn’t beat us without Edey.

Your confident we win shooting less that 11% from 3?

[BandAlum83]

Agree. I love when people start to predict who is a first weekend team or which round various teams will get to in November. It's impossible to make those predictions in March and even more so now. Did 2011 UCLA look like a "first weekend team" or a "elite 8/final 4 team"? - to use the phrasing that an earlier poster in this thread used.

To be clear, that was my take as of now. Of course, a lot can change, but I am reminded of how we waited all year for Harry Giles. Hopefully, we will all have fun watching this team develop, but I am definitely ratcheting my expectations downward.