MBB: Duke 56, Purdue 75 Post-Game Thread

[Jeffrey]

It was mentioned by one of the announcers during one of the games. It might also have occurred on a podcast as well, but I heard it during one of the games.

Agreed. I’ve heard it twice during games. IIRC, it’s when the announcers tell Jon’s Chris joke.

[SkyBrickey]

I suspect it says more about Lively's defensive potential than it does about his offense. That, and it says something about Young's complete lack of defensive potential.

True, but I would still bet Coach is expecting 8-10 ppg out of Lively in 25 mpg. Some of this is on Lively. Some of it is on our guards to get it to him on half court lobs and in the open court on fast breaks.

I’ll be really interested to see if he continues shooting the top of the key 3. The scouting report on him always said he had range out to 3. If he can force the opposing C to respect that shot, it opens the driving lanes for everyone - a big reason why I’d love to see more Flip at the 5 and Mitchell at the 4. The big would have to come out and guard stretch 5 Flip.

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[CDu]

True, but I would still bet Coach is expecting 8-10 ppg out of Lively in 25 mpg. Some of this is on Lively. Some of it is on our guards to get it to him on half court lobs and in the open court on fast breaks.

I think he's probably close to tapped out on available points off lobs and dunks. He's currently averaging about 3.7 points per 25 minutes via dunks. I wouldn't expect more than 4-5 ppg (assuming a 25 mpg average) via that route. It's just not sustainable against better teams. For reference, Mark Williams averaged only 4.9 dunk points per 25 minutes as a freshman, and he had an actual back-to-the basket game that resulted in some of those dunks.

So if Lively's going to get to 8-10 points per 25 minutes, he's probably going to have to get a fair amount better at scoring on his own other than the absolute zero he's currently contributed. That's not impossible, but I'm not sure how likely it is.

I’ll be really interested to see if he continues shooting the top of the key 3. The scouting report on him always said he had range out to 3. If he can force the opposing C to respect that shot, it opens the driving lanes for everyone - a big reason why I’d love to see more Flip at the 5 and Mitchell at the 4. The big would have to come out and guard stretch 5 Flip.

I am sure Lively is capable of making a 3. Hell, I'm sure that Williams was capable of making a 3. But we hear all the time that "so and so has range out to 3" in high school, and then not see it translate to the college game. Hitting 3s at the high school distance against much weaker defenses (and I'm guessing he didn't shoot them at a good percentage even there) doesn't imply that 3s will be hit at the next level. His FT shooting and the two backboard rattling 3s he has attempted so far don't suggest he should be shooting. Hopefully either he gets substantially better at it or he stops shooting them.

My expectations are something more like 6-8 ppg, 6-8 rpg, and 3 bpg in a ~25 mpg role. If he provides that and is solid on defensive switches as needed, that's solid for me. If he provides more than that, it's a big win. I think the offensive improvement is going to come more from Proctor and Whitehead getting better.

[Jeffrey]

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[hustleplays]

I prefer to consistently play 8-9 guys, which is similar to the way UNC used to do it under Roy. And I think Ryan Young was a very good pick-up for Coach Scheyer; I’m glad he’s getting solid minutes (15-20), and would like that to continue. I like Grandison, also, and would prefer he get at least 15 mpg.

But this roster is loaded, so that might be a bit much.

Size and use of rotation is a big deal. Why was Coach K's bench so weak for so many years? Because top-notch D1 athletes want to play basketball, not be Practice Squad fodder, regardless of the Brotherhood and other enticements.

I don't have inside information, wish I did. Jim S probably knows. My conjecture is that Jon & Co let it be known: You come as a scholarship player, you do your best off the court, in practice, in the weight room, in class, etc. and you will play.

I love seeing more of our players getting the chance to play. It creates greater cohesion and team esprit.

Go Duke!

[Phredd3]

I suspect it says more about Lively's defensive potential than it does about his offense. That, and it says something about Young's complete lack of defensive potential.

Maybe so, but it seemed to me that the two of them played about comparably well yesterday on both end of the floor, although Lively's playing time was limited by foul trouble and he ended playing only about 2/3rd as many minutes as Young (about 3 minutes were played with neither in the game). Young was the one in there at crunch time.

[CDu]

Maybe so, but it seemed to me that the two of them played about comparably well yesterday on both end of the floor, although Lively's playing time was limited by foul trouble and he ended playing only about 2/3rd as many minutes as Young (about 3 minutes were played with neither in the game). Young was the one in there at crunch time.

There were zero minutes with both on the bench. Lively played 18, Young 22. Both did play very well.

[Phredd3]

There were zero minutes with both on the bench. Lively played 18, Young 22. Both did play very well.

Fair enough. I was probably adding up the wrong things. Mostly, though, I was just surprised at how each of them has a very different style, but each of them manages to provide a lot of value to the team. Our two-headed center is pretty much a handful for any team that doesn't have Zach Edey on it.

[tommy]

Size and use of rotation is a big deal. Why was Coach K's bench so weak for so many years? Because top-notch D1 athletes want to play basketball, not be Practice Squad fodder, regardless of the Brotherhood and other enticements.

I don't have inside information, wish I did. Jim S probably knows. My conjecture is that Jon & Co let it be known: You come as a scholarship player, you do your best off the court, in practice, in the weight room, in class, etc. and you will play.

I love seeing more of our players getting the chance to play. It creates greater cohesion and team esprit.

Go Duke!

I doubt players are told that. My conjecture is that Jon tells them the same thing, exactly, that K used to tell guys: If you deserve to play, you will. If you earn it at practice and prove that you're better than the other guys, you will play. No promises. It's on you.

So many of these guys have so much self confidence, born out of all the success they've had their whole lives, that they are pretty sure that they're gonna be good enough, if they work hard, to play at Duke too. Sure some guys come in knowing they'll be bench guys, but the highly recruited ones all think they're gonna be players.

[UrinalCake]

I think he's probably close to tapped out on available points off lobs and dunks. He's currently averaging about 3.7 points per 25 minutes via dunks. I wouldn't expect more than 4-5 ppg (assuming a 25 mpg average) via that route. It's just not sustainable against better teams. For reference, Mark Williams averaged only 4.9 dunk points per 25 minutes as a freshman, and he had an actual back-to-the basket game that resulted in some of those dunks.

Gotta respectfully disagree with you on this one. Maybe he's tapped out on garbage points where he cleans up someone else's misses, but we've barely begun to actually run plays for him and he has had very little time practicing with the full squad. I don't recall Mark having much back to the basket game his freshman year, I remember him having a lot of the same struggles due to being physically not strong enough. But I'd like to see his numbers for just the second half of that season because he came on so strong especially in that ACC Tournament that we never got to finish. I suspect Lively will make a similar push once he gets more established.