MBB: Duke 56, Purdue 75 Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here. And remember, no venting or bashing.

[scottdude8]

First and foremost, I’m extremely proud of this team. They fought. It could’ve gotten very ugly very early, and these guys played with pride.

Second, let’s please not panic. Purdue is the worst-case scenario for a team to face with little prep time (especially when, let’s be honest, we were probably getting ready for Gonzaga subconsciously). They’re so damn unique, and Edey is insane. They’re a really good team.

Third, let’s please not overreact about Lively. He’s young, he’s coming back from injury, and this was the exact worst case matchup for him. He’s going to get better and better as the year goes on.

On a positive note, we saw the player Proctor could be today. We need him to be a creator, and he showed more glimpses of that today. Also, Jeremy continued showing he’s an offensive force, and seems to be no worse for wear from the injury (fingers crossed).

How we come back on Wednesday will say a lot about this team. If we can perform well, that’ll say something for our resilience. If this team has that, the sky is still the limit, because we’re only going to get better.

[luvdahops]

First and foremost, I’m extremely proud of this team. They fought. It could’ve gotten very ugly very early, and these guys played with pride.

Second, let’s please not panic. Purdue is the worst-case scenario for a team to face with little prep time (especially when, let’s be honest, we were probably getting ready for Gonzaga subconsciously). They’re so damn unique, and Edey is insane. They’re a really good team.

Third, let’s please not overreact about Lively. He’s young, he’s coming back from injury, and this was the exact worst case matchup for him. He’s going to get better and better as the year goes on.

On a positive note, we saw the player Proctor could be today. We need him to be a creator, and he showed more glimpses of that today. Also, Jeremy continued showing he’s an offensive force, and seems to be no worse for wear from the injury (fingers crossed).

How we come back on Wednesday will say a lot about this team. If we can perform well, that’ll say something for our resilience. If this team has that, the sky is still the limit, because we’re only going to get better.

I agree with all of these points. Proctor’s play was a definite silver lining in my view. This team really needs to establish an effective offensive identity and approach, and Proctor and Whitehead are arguably the keys to that.

[CameronDuke]

The switch to zone by Coach Scheyer and staff really got Duke back into the game. I think Duke cut the lead to 6 at one point in the 2nd half and it was still very much anyone’s game. I was glad to see Roach return from injury and I hope he is ok going forward. Roach, Proctor, and Flip had good games offensively but as a team Duke shot just 2-19 from 3. Duke was also out rebounded 42-32 and out assisted 17 to 8. Purdue is a good team and Edey is a lot to handle in the post. Hopefully, the young guys can learn from this and be better for it going forward. Tough game overall but a lot of season left and Duke still has a high ceiling.

[scottdude8]

The switch to zone by Coach Scheyer and staff really got Duke back into the game. I think Duke cut the lead to 6 at one point in the 2nd half and it was still very much anyone’s game. I was glad to see Roach return from injury and I hope he is ok going forward. Roach, Proctor, and Flip had good games offensively but as a team Duke shot just 2-19 from 3. Duke was also out rebounded 42-32 and out assisted 17 to 8. Purdue is a good team and Edey is a lot to handle in the post. Hopefully, the young guys can learn from this and be better for it going forward. Tough game overall but a lot of season left and Duke still has a high ceiling.

100% agreed, knew I forgot something in my post

I’m also encouraged by some of the coaching moves we’ve seen from Scheyer of late, including the shift to the 2-3. We forget, just like our players should get better as the season goes on, so should our coach.

[simplyluvin]

The switch to zone by Coach Scheyer and staff really got Duke back into the game. I think Duke cut the lead to 6 at one point in the 2nd half and it was still very much anyone’s game. I was glad to see Roach return from injury and I hope he is ok going forward. Roach, Proctor, and Flip had good games offensively but as a team Duke shot just 2-19 from 3. Duke was also out rebounded 42-32 and out assisted 17 to 8. Purdue is a good team and Edey is a lot to handle in the post. Hopefully, the young guys can learn from this and be better for it going forward. Tough game overall but a lot of season left and Duke still has a high ceiling.

I really appreciate the optimism here and elsewhere on the thread after a loss, but the offensive futility we saw coming out of this tournament makes me feel that our ceiling is not quite that high. This team reminds me of the 2017 team when Jayson Tatum had to claw his way back from a foot injury, but that team had way more firepower (soph Kennard, junior Grayson, even Frank Jackson). We just don't have a scorer on this team (yet), but I have three causes for hope:

1. Whitehead has shown glimpses of being a serious baller. If by end of December he's back in game shape and at game speed, we may be in business. We need a scorer for this team to feed off. Last year, we got that from Paolo, Wendell, and AJ at times. Last year AJ was coming back from injury and his game blossomed, and he was the missing ingredient to what became an elite team. I think Whitehead has the potential to be even more impactful to us this year.
2. Proctor needs desperately to find his shot, but I really liked his dribble penetration game today, and he needs to do more of that until his shot comes around.
3. Flip has some poor man's Laettner game in him. If he grows in confidence, he could really blow up.

[scottdude8]

I really appreciate the optimism here and elsewhere on the thread after a loss, but the offensive futility we saw coming out of this tournament makes me feel that our ceiling is not quite that high. This team reminds me of the 2017 team when Jayson Tatum had to claw his way back from a foot injury, but that team had way more firepower (soph Kennard, junior Grayson, even Frank Jackson). We just don't have a scorer on this team (yet), but I have three causes for hope:

1. Whitehead has shown glimpses of being a serious baller. If by end of December he's back in game shape and at game speed, we may be in business. We need a scorer for this team to feed off. Last year, we got that from Paolo, Wendell, and AJ at times. Last year AJ was coming back from injury and his game blossomed, and he was the missing ingredient to what became an elite team. I think Whitehead has the potential to be even more impactful to us this year.
2. Proctor needs desperately to find his shot, but I really liked his dribble penetration game today, and he needs to do more of that until his shot comes around.
3. Flip has some poor man's Laettner game in him. If he grows in confidence, he could really blow up.

Well, one might say that analysis benefits from a bit of hindsight. At this point, I don’t think many foresaw the levels Kennard and Jackson would attain, and Tatum was still a hypothetical. Maybe Whitehead approaches Tatum, Proctor takes a leap like Jackson, and junior Roach approximates junior Grayson. Seems like a pipe dream right now, but so would your analysis at this point in that season.

[simplyluvin]

Well, one might say that analysis benefits from a bit of hindsight. At this point, I don’t think many foresaw the levels Kennard and Jackson would attain, and Tatum was still a hypothetical. Maybe Whitehead approaches Tatum, Proctor takes a leap like Jackson, and junior Roach approximates junior Grayson. Seems like a pipe dream right now, but so would your analysis at this point in that season.

Not sure where you’re going with the benefit of hindsight notion. I mean, everything is hindsight in a way, and we try to use historical comps as a way of substantiating, albeit imprecisely, observations and gut feelings we have on our current team’s performances. Without hindsight, I suppose there isn’t that much to talk about.

And I wasn’t taking quite the leap that you are with the player to player comps, outside of the Whitehead-Tatum comp because of the injury commonality to a marquee newcomer. My point is that our ceiling seems to be close to that 2017 team if our new guys heal and develop well.

[scottdude8]

Not sure where you’re going with the benefit of hindsight notion. I mean, everything is hindsight in a way, and we try to use historical comps as a way of substantiating, albeit imprecisely, observations and gut feelings we have on our current team’s performances. Without hindsight, I suppose there isn’t that much to talk about.

And I wasn’t taking quite the leap that you are with the player to player comps, outside of the Whitehead-Tatum comp because of the injury commonality to a marquee newcomer. My point is that our ceiling seems to be close to that 2017 team if our new guys heal and develop well.

Ahh, I guess I misunderstood. I read your post as saying we were NOT on par with the 2017 team. My bad!

[cbarry]

Good to see Roach back, but I’m really worried this is a turf toe they could have him out for awhile.

also, we scored 1 point in the final 9:15. They can never happen again.

[kako]

I've posted something like this in some year before, but to dust it off, make a few edits and post it again..

Such voices of pessimism. I remind people that it's still freakin' November. Unless Duke smokes [insert top-ranked team here] early in the season and is undefeated, after a loss or two some people will say this team is doomed, its ceiling is limited. To go so far as to predict failure in the tourney (or to predict hoisting the trophy) is so premature when Duke hasn't even played a conference game. A wise coach once said that a season is a lifetime. And over any lifetime, some early mistakes and failures are to be expected. But what do successful teams do? They learn from them. The [insert last game Duke lost to here] loss doesn't mean we are destined to be a first weekend washout in the NCAAs or not even make the tourney. Do we have weaknesses? Sure. Let's see how the coaching staff uses the loss to address those issues. But Duke has the talent to win it all, especially if they learn to play well as a team. In November, it *always* remains to be seen if they will or will not.

(Caveat - here is where my post has another significant variable different that before. It's not K on the sideline. So let's see how the Scheyer regime works this. I haven't posted this before, but long-term I think as long as this team makes the S16, Scheyer's reign will be off to a very successful start).

9F

[freshmanjs]

I've posted something like this in some year before, but to dust it off, make a few edits and post it again..

Such voices of pessimism. I remind people that it's still freakin' November. Unless Duke smokes [insert top-ranked team here] early in the season and is undefeated, after a loss or two some people will say this team is doomed, its ceiling is limited. To go so far as to predict failure in the tourney (or to predict hoisting the trophy) is so premature when Duke hasn't even played a conference game. A wise coach once said that a season is a lifetime. And over any lifetime, some early mistakes and failures are to be expected. But what do successful teams do? They learn from them. The [insert last game Duke lost to here] loss doesn't mean we are destined to be a first weekend washout in the NCAAs or not even make the tourney. Do we have weaknesses? Sure. Let's see how the coaching staff uses the loss to address those issues. But Duke has the talent to win it all, especially if they learn to play well as a team. In November, it *always* remains to be seen if they will or will not.

(Caveat - here is where my post has another significant variable different that before. It's not K on the sideline. So let's see how the Scheyer regime works this. I haven't posted this before, but long-term I think as long as this team makes the S16, Scheyer's reign will be off to a very successful start).

9F

Agree. I love when people start to predict who is a first weekend team or which round various teams will get to in November. It's impossible to make those predictions in March and even more so now. Did 2011 UCLA look like a "first weekend team" or a "elite 8/final 4 team"? - to use the phrasing that an earlier poster in this thread used.

[BandAlum83]

Agree. I love when people start to predict who is a first weekend team or which round various teams will get to in November. It's impossible to make those predictions in March and even more so now. Did 2011 UCLA look like a "first weekend team" or a "elite 8/final 4 team"? - to use the phrasing that an earlier poster in this thread used.

To be clear, that was my take as of now. Of course, a lot can change, but I am reminded of how we waited all year for Harry Giles. Hopefully, we will all have fun watching this team develop, but I am definitely ratcheting my expectations downward.

[freshmanjs]

To be clear, that was my take as of now. Of course, a lot can change, but I am reminded of how we waited all year for Harry Giles. Hopefully, we will all have fun watching this team develop, but I am definitely ratcheting my expectations downward.

As of now or as of later, it makes no sense to ever classify teams by what weekend they will get to, since that is not predictable.

[BandAlum83]

As of now or as of later, it makes no sense to ever classify teams by what weekend they will get to, since that is not predictable.

I said that’s what they look like. And right now that is my opinion. I made no prediction for where they will end up.

Right now, Duke doesn’t look like a top 20 team.

[UrinalCake]

Just to keep things in perspective - two days ago Purdue beat Gonzaga by a similar margin, a preseason top-3 team with a ton of experience. Everyone's preseason media darling the CHeats also has two losses (dang that felt good to write). So let's not go jumping to conclusions like saying we should be unranked and won't make it out of the first weekend. The key for me is continued improvement throughout the season, something that hasn't always happened in past years but I remain optimistic will happen for us this season.

[billy]

The key for me is continued improvement throughout the season, something that hasn't always happened in past years but I remain optimistic will happen for us this season.

Agree - winning the month of November hasn't equated to March/April success the last several years. Hopefully we peak at the late part of the season instead.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Agree - winning the month of November hasn't equated to March/April success the last several years. Hopefully we peak at the late part of the season instead.

Are Elite 8 and the Final Four not success?

[Duke79UNLV77]

Based on what I've seen of the combination of talent and development point of that talent so far, I think we look like a borderline top 25 team. I don't say that to be harsh. To the contrary, I'd be more upset if I thought we had a top-5 level team but nevertheless had the performances we've had against Kansas (neither team played too well), Oregon State, and Purdue.

That said, I will be disappointed if we play out the season that way and yet there still is a mass early exodus to the NBA (or G League, since I wouldn't see many of the players getting time in the NBA next year). If more players stay this year, next year could be very strong.

I think I heard that one of the Purdue players is on his 4th college team. The transfers are getting ridiculous. It's like if every single player in the NBA were a free agent every single year.

[freshmanjs]

I said that’s what they look like. And right now that is my opinion. I made no prediction for where they will end up.

Right now, Duke doesn’t look like a top 20 team.

What does a 2nd weekend team look like? What is the differentiator in looks between St. Peters and Kentucky that let you know which one looked like a first weekend team and which looked like a 2nd weekend team?