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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    None of these freshmen even look remotely ready to be 1 and done.

    Maybe Flip.

    Its going to be a long season unless they start improving dramatically.
    Going to be a long season?

    A close game vs last year's National Champion (and highly ranked this year) Kansas Jayhawks team, and wins in the other games, including today's solid win vs a good Xavier team.
    This despite two of the highly regarded freshmen being out for a long period of time; not to mention we're not even into December yet?

    I don't know what your expectations were for the season, but some patience would be in order IMO. Or just hop off the wagon if you choose.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    This is not mutually exclusive to not being 1-and-done ready...doesn't seem like such a hot take given we have a loss already, and haven't blown the doors off the past 2 days.
    I suppose. I guess it's about expectations and how one defines "long season." With all the circumstances-young team, first year coach, two freshmen being injured etc, I have really enjoyed the start to the season and look forward to seeing how they develop.

  3. #43
    Good win over a tough P6 team. Roach was fantastic all game and Young and Mitchell were tough as nails. Seeing small signs of improvement from Lively and Whitehead. We are gonna need them both to play up to their ranking before we turn the corner and be a serious national contender. I think they will get there. Need Proctor to come around and Flip to show a little better judgement on offense. Our defense is really good now and will be a huge force in February and March. Love watching this team grow!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Oxford, NC
    Mitchell's energy and scoring was vital to get rolling at the start of the 2nd half as opposed to the early second half funk against Oregon State. All these young players are learning and growing before our eyes - their trajectory is not aways a smooth upwards one. It is something we should enjoy watching. Winning 2 close games in a row is a confidence booster.

    While I love watching him guard the rim, Lively is having a time avoiding fouls - 15 so far in 99 minutes of game time - 1 foul every 6.6 minutes. Not sure if that is conditioning, trying to do too much, or that the college game is different than high school. And currently a liability at the FT line - 1 of 6 through his 6 games played. That's Hack a Shaq territory. Hoping this will improve with time.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by robed deity View Post
    I have really enjoyed the start to the season and look forward to seeing how they develop.
    This ^

    For the last 10(?) years or so, we have struggled to become a solid defensive team, given all the freshmen in the lineup. This is the first year in a long time that I haven’t had serious doubts about our ability to become an excellent defense.

    If there is a “grand strategy” of Duke Basketball, it’s to recruit very talented high schoolers who have zero experience at the college level, and to help them make huge improvements so that by the end of their first season in college they can contend for championships. It’s literally what our program is based on.

    We’ve consistently done that on the offensive end. Whether we did it on the defensive end determined how well our season went.

    So, I feel more confident about our potential than I have in quite a while.

    100% opinion. If you think I’m offbase, please help me understand why.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Proctor sure hasn't looked the part so far. Mitchell? Sometimes he looks like a OAD. He's playing better than Cam Reddish did, and not appreciably worse than RJ Barrett. Flip has been playing like maybe a high lottery pick, pure Jules energy. In Dariq's 4th game since returning from a 2+ month absence due to injury he played his best game so far, and looked ok. Lively also played his best, most active ball since returning from injury as well, although i will grant you that he did not play like a OAD ought to play.
    I'd say it's a bit premature to say who looks like a OAD at the moment. Neither Tyus Jones nor Justise Winslow looked like they'd be OAD after 7 games. And you know what? They improved dramatically.
    In his first 5-6 games- Winslow was averaging over 15 ppg- Jones had 22 in his 8th game. Yes they got better but they showed glimpses early. I have seen it in Flip and Mitchell. Lively has not shown it as of yet.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by dlmzzz View Post
    This ^

    For the last 10(?) years or so, we have struggled to become a solid defensive team, given all the freshmen in the lineup. This is the first year in a long time that I haven’t had serious doubts about our ability to become an excellent defense.

    If there is a “grand strategy” of Duke Basketball, it’s to recruit very talented high schoolers who have zero experience at the college level, and to help them make huge improvements so that by the end of their first season in college they can contend for championships. It’s literally what our program is based on.

    We’ve consistently done that on the offensive end. Whether we did it on the defensive end determined how well our season went.

    So, I feel more confident about our potential than I have in quite a while.

    100% opinion. If you think I’m offbase, please help me understand why.
    I'm with you. Almost every year the conversation is 'our offense ls great, but the D is porous,' and 'I hope they can shore up the defense' or 'figure but how to play defense' by March.

    How refreshing is it to have a team that already plays good defense and we only have to hope that a team full of high-school superstars will get it figured out on the offensive side? I suspect it is easier for a young team to get the offense going than the defense. I am happy that we are finally seeing a team with a lot of freshman that are really putting in effort on the defensive side of the ball and being successful there this early in the season.

    I don't expect that we will win all our games, or anything, but i think having a competent D and a team of guys that buys into the importance of defense will keep us competitive in most games and give us a chance to win a lot of them.

  8. #48
    We will learn quite a bit on Sunday. If the Purdue that is playing right now shows up against us, we will need to shore up our play in a hurry if we want to stay within 15.

  9. #49
    I think/hope Ryan Young will be our X-factor.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC

    Championship game; Duke vs. Purdue!

    Purdue with a beat down of Gonzaga, winning by 16 points. Their center is 7' foot and weighs 295 lbs. I'm glad we have the front court guys who can at go hard at him. Lively on defense, Flip and Young offensively.

    GoDuke!

  11. #51
    Good game overall.
    Xavier really speed us up and you could really tell by the way Flip and Young were sucking air and misses by Flip he normally makes.
    I don't think this team is ready for high speed basketball yet.
    Besides all that Roach and Mitchell really carried us.
    Roach was awesome today.
    I hope the guys get some good rest before the next game.
    Ps. I still don't understand why Proctor is getting so much playing time at this point?

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukeblue91 View Post
    Good game overall.
    Xavier really speed us up and you could really tell by the way Flip and Young were sucking air and misses by Flip he normally makes.
    I don't think this team is ready for high speed basketball yet.
    Besides all that Roach and Mitchell really carried us.
    Roach was awesome today.
    I hope the guys get some good rest before the next game.
    Ps. I still don't understand why Proctor is getting so much playing time at this point?
    Well, I guess Jon could give Hubbard his minutes. We have 3 guards in Roach, Blakes and Proctor that can handle the basketball. I'm pretty sure Shutt is not ready for big minutes yet. All 3 guards play good defense, especially Blakes. The only other player that might get Proctors minutes is Whitehead and he's not ready because of his injury. The only thing missing in Tyrese's game is making shots and he's known to be a good shooter. It looks like he's rushing his shot on some occasions. He's been a very good rebounder for a guard and he's not a ball stopper who is looking to shoot. Just as I'm expecting Whitehead and Lively to improve, I'm looking for Proctor to do the same.

    GoDuke!

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    I think that much of what we are seeing is the result of a different coach. We know what K did. In general, he took the talent he had and from the start ran offenses that took advantage of players’ strengths. He also kept his rotation short and ran the offense accordingly. So far, J has expanded his rotation and let his players find the right offensive flow while stressing defense. I speculate that K would have run more stuff to highlight Lively and Whitehead talent. With J, it seems they need to play within his system. I know this is a HUGE generalization, but I think my initial point is accurate.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Well, I guess Jon could give Hubbard his minutes. We have 3 guards in Roach, Blakes and Proctor that can handle the basketball. I'm pretty sure Shutt is not ready for big minutes yet. All 3 guards play good defense, especially Blakes. The only other player that might get Proctors minutes is Whitehead and he's not ready because of his injury. The only thing missing in Tyrese's game is making shots and he's known to be a good shooter. It looks like he's rushing his shot on some occasions. He's been a very good rebounder for a guard and he's not a ball stopper who is looking to shoot. Just as I'm expecting Whitehead and Lively to improve, I'm looking for Proctor to do the same.

    GoDuke!
    I agree that we have seen glimpses of Proctor’s game but he is getting there slower than hoped. Whitehead is another option but he is still rusty and maybe not fully trusting his foot. Luckily Blakes is giving good minutes in home games and may get there on the road. So far Scheyer has a good feel for his guys and is winning close games. Scheyer knows what Proctor can eventually give and is giving him enough time to learn. We will see if it pays off.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Lively and Whitehead

    Quote Originally Posted by NYBri View Post
    I think that much of what we are seeing is the result of a different coach. We know what K did. In general, he took the talent he had and from the start ran offenses that took advantage of players’ strengths. He also kept his rotation short and ran the offense accordingly. So far, J has expanded his rotation and let his players find the right offensive flow while stressing defense. I speculate that K would have run more stuff to highlight Lively and Whitehead talent. With J, it seems they need to play within his system. I know this is a HUGE generalization, but I think my initial point is accurate.
    I strongly doubt K would have highlighted Lively and Whitehead this early in the season, given their injuries. And Lively probably will not be someone you highlight on offense, ever, given his limited low post game.

    Don't know about the other differences, but we will see as the season progresses. I'm very happy with the new coach.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlanta
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    I strongly doubt K would have highlighted Lively and Whitehead this early in the season, given their injuries. And Lively probably will not be someone you highlight on offense, ever, given his limited low post game.

    Don't know about the other differences, but we will see as the season progresses. I'm very happy with the new coach.
    Very happy w Jon...love him playing 9, not sure he is going to have a tendency that we harp on in the negative like K's limited rotation...I'm seeing more plays run...loved the the double picks at top of key to open up for shooters...contrary to Lively, I believe Whitehead is about to explode...thos two quick 3's last night were taken with confidence and had some nifty moves..gonna be fun to watch him...Lively can't figure him out except defensively giving us minutes with fouls and blocks...gonna need him tomorrow against 7'4" guy if to only eat up minutes...should be a fun match...hope the tall dude can't hit free throws
    Maybe appropriate for us all at this time for the foreseeable future, April 3rd, 2022
    "Our backs are against the wall,...we gonna fight till we can't fight no more", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nnstylh2g8
    "It's a game of inches", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1yWSePMqsk&t=28s

  17. #57
    Great bounce back game from pretty much everyone. Jeremy had a great game. Flip and Mark were good. Dereck looked much better when he was in. He needs to cut down on the fouls so he can get more floor time. Dariq looks to be slowly shaking off the rust. Tyrese is a puzzle for me. I can see a ton of potential but he seems to disappear for long stretches. Jaylen has his limitation but he plays with an edge which is nice to see. Surprised Grandison didn't get more playing time. I am a Ryan fan in much smaller doses. He is an utter liability on defense.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke76 View Post
    Very happy w Jon...love him playing 9, not sure he is going to have a tendency that we harp on in the negative like K's limited rotation...I'm seeing more plays run...loved the the double picks at top of key to open up for shooters...contrary to Lively, I believe Whitehead is about to explode...thos two quick 3's last night were taken with confidence and had some nifty moves..gonna be fun to watch him...Lively can't figure him out except defensively giving us minutes with fouls and blocks...gonna need him tomorrow against 7'4" guy if to only eat up minutes...should be a fun match...hope the tall dude can't hit free throws
    for which team? I keed I keed. But seriously, Lively has shot very poorly on very low FTA/game. Lively may be quite tall, but he's not as tall as Edey, and he's nowhere near as heavy. That doesn't necessarily mean that Lively is gonna get abused by Edey, but Lively hasn't shown the ability to push anybody around or carve out space for himself. Lively showed a lot more activity/utility last night but still only had 4 rebounds and 2 points to go with his 2 blocks.
    Vs. the Zags Edey went for 23 points and 7 boards, more or less a draw with Drew Timme's 22 points and 9 boards. Purdue won the game with their guards and wings.
    Edey will struggle to match Flip or Lively's quickness, but they'll both struggle with his power and height. Will Ryan Young be the X-factor?

  19. #59
    Regardless of why a given game stays close, getting to the W to me is the first priority. From here on out, I imagine most games won't be big margins. I respect Scheyer's acumen of what is best for the closing 5 minutes. So far, this team has seemed more like a "use the best of the team" group than an "OAD individual stars" group. I don't think that is bad and it may stay that way for longer than usual.

    Lively didn't need bulk against 17-year-olds, but I think it matters against front courts of 20-somethings. I don't know how quickly Duke trainers can solve that. I even wonder if NBA scouts will want to give him a space on the bench while his body fills out. I don't believe the NBA recruits 7 footers who are not a rebounding force...and he wont be able to block as many NBA-skilled players. If he can hold his minutes against Purdue's goliath, I will be happily impressed.

    I dont know Australian basketball, but I imagine Proctor just hasn't faced the better defense that college guards can bring...I think he was used to having more space to get his scoring mojo on...this too will be a learning process of some duration. But, I dont see a big problem if he just serves as PG and Roach and Blakes play more SG.

    I tend to agree Whitehead can getter to a higher plateau sooner than the other two.

    So, in the meantime, Duke can just play the guys that a more ready for college prime time and I think they will be competitive enough to do OK.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    Purdue with a beat down of Gonzaga, winning by 16 points. Their center is 7' foot and weighs 295 lbs. I'm glad we have the front court guys who can at go hard at him. Lively on defense, Flip and Young offensively.
    Edey is actually listed at 7'4. He is enormous, completely dwarfs everyone around him and made 6'10 Drew Timme look small. I imagine we'll need to rely on Young defensively moreso than Lively. Coming into the season I was concerned about how Flip would hold up strength-wise, and not at all about Lively. I was completely backwards on that. Lively has gotten pushed around a lot, similar to Mark Williams in his freshman year. I think he'll get his chances against Edey but it's going to be a tall order. Watching the Purdue game, any time the defender tried to front Edey they would just throw over top, he's obviously a massive target who fills up the lane and even with Lively's length I don't think he can intercept that pass. Play behind and you're allowing an easy entry into the post where it's an automatic finish. The whole team is not just Edey though, their guards played really well too and shut down a good Gonzaga team.

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