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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Michigan 75, Purdue Fort Wayne 56
    Joey Baker played 16 minutes as a reserve guard and scored 9 points off 3-for-6 outside shooting. He added 3 rebounds, an assist, and a block.

    Texas A&M 87, Louisiana-Monroe 54
    Henry Coleman III, starting forward, played 22 minutes. He had 14 points, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and a steal.

    Mississippi 73, Alcorn State 58
    Jaemyn Brakefield started at forward and scored 3 points in 14 minutes. He scored a 2-pointer, a free throw, and had a turnover. The play-by-play has him on the bench for large chunks of each half. What happened? Nothing on Twitter, and no game recap yet.
    I really didn't mind Scott's post, but I like this post better (sporks). I would like to see brevity do this on most of the former Duke players. Well not on the guy that quit on Duke and now plays in the NBA.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Yeah, I can't spork scottdude8 my PM, so I guess I'll put it here for everyone's eyes.

    Joey was the basis for a LOT of discussion here during his time at Duke. He's moved elsewhere (after completing his obligation to our Devils I might add) and I don't understand why folks are cranky about this.

    Are folks here still salty about the Fab Five? That's my only guess, even though we waxed the floor with them. Is it because their coach smacked someone - that wasn't a great look, I agree. Is it because they aren't ACC?

    Anyway, I'm not trying to kickstart a debate here, I'm just surprised by the reaction of many posters. scottdude8 brings the heat and the analysis with his Duke posts. He's a talented writer and knows his stuff.

    As has been recommended to me over and over (I'm working on it) "if you don't wanna read a thread, just skip over it." There's no arm twisting going on here, and no requirement to read each and every post.

    Personally, I have a good friend in Ann Arbor. I took him to Duke/Miami last year, and we talk college ball around the calendar. I enjoy the little insights and it helps me spring a surprise on him from time to time.

    My 2¢
    Maybe it has to do with Jalen Rose calling Grant Hill an Uncle Tom? I disliked the Fab Five. I thought they were cocky without earning it. My mind about Michigan didn't change after living and working there for 5 years after college.
    https://www.espn.com/chicago/ncb/news/story?id=6270285

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    Maybe it has to do with Jalen Rose calling Grant Hill an Uncle Tom? I disliked the Fab Five. I thought they were cocky without earning it. My mind about Michigan didn't change after living and working there for 5 years after college.
    https://www.espn.com/chicago/ncb/news/story?id=6270285
    I remember that too. But jeez, we erased their dreams.

    I don't have room for that sort of grudge in my life. From what I understand Grant and Jalen are cool, so who am I to keep beating that drum.

  4. #24
    I am glad to hear that Joey had a good first game.

  5. #25
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto

    Joey's D

    According to the Michigan Daily, it still left a lot to be desired:

    While he was a spark on the offensive end, Baker’s flame flickered on the defensive end. Returning from hip surgery, Baker isn’t the fastest or most agile player on the floor. He sometimes struggled to stick with his man, forcing players like Dickinson to help off his man and leading to easy scoring opportunities for the Mastodons.
    Scott Rich on the front page

    Trinity BS 2012; University of Michigan PhD 2018
    Duke Chronicle, Sports Online Editor: 2010-2012
    K-Ville Blue Tenting 2009-2012

    Unofficial Brian Zoubek Biographer
    If you have questions about Michigan Basketball/Football, I'm your man!

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    According to the Michigan Daily, it still left a lot to be desired:
    Honestly, I think we need more discussion about the fact that Michigan's opponent's (IPFW) team name is the Mastodons.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Honestly, I think we need more discussion about the fact that Michigan's opponent's (IPFW) team name is the Mastodons.
    Ha, had to look it up. According to wiki:

    At the start of athletics competition, the school was known as the abbreviation for Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne (IPFW). In 1968 a large bone was discovered during the installation of a farm pond near Angola, Indiana, about 40 miles (65 km) north of Fort Wayne. The farmer contacted professors in the IPFW geology department, who identified his discovery as the leg bone of a mastodon. Faculty and students from the geology department excavated the greater part of an adult mastodon, including the skull and tusks. The bones were cleaned, preserved, and placed on permanent display at IPFW. In 1970 members of the geology club, led by professors who oversaw the excavation, successfully lobbied the student government committee charged with choosing a name for the university mascot to select the mastodon. And thus, the IPFW Mastodons were born [9]. In addition to serving as a mascot, “Mastodon” is used as the athletic moniker for team members and school-spirited references to the student body. The selection of the mastodon as mascot—as well as a tongue-in-cheek borrowing of the term “Don” from its academic British English use—lends itself to be a suffix to refer to the athletics teams as well, such as Volleydons for the volleyball teams.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purdue...ayne_Mastodons

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Those extinct creatures sure are popular around here lately.
    https://forums.dukebasketballreport...15#post1531015
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  9. #29

    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Yeah, I can't spork scottdude8 my PM, so I guess I'll put it here for everyone's eyes.

    Joey was the basis for a LOT of discussion here during his time at Duke. He's moved elsewhere (after completing his obligation to our Devils I might add) and I don't understand why folks are cranky about this.

    My 2˘
    As far as I know, Joey played four years for Duke because the coaches burned his redshirt year and then he only played in four games that season. If anything, he should be cranky about Duke so I can’t blame him if he takes his Covid year elsewhere. Most important, it’s a shame that he came in as a big-time shooter but that it just didn’t pan out for him. In the end he only made 75 threes at Duke, which is disappointing.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    Most important, it’s a shame that he came in as a big-time shooter but that it just didn’t pan out
    Joey Baker shot 38% from three in his time at Duke. His opportunities were limited, but that shooting percentage seems pretty big-time to me.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Joey Baker shot 38% from three in his time at Duke. His opportunities were limited, but that shooting percentage seems pretty big-time to me.
    Yeh, it wasn't his shooting that kept him confined to the bench. It was his defense, but he did hustle and play hard. I'm hoping Shutt is not that bad on defense and gets in the rotation before he leaves Duke.

    GoDuke!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by miramar View Post
    In the end he only made 75 threes at Duke, which is disappointing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Joey Baker shot 38% from three in his time at Duke. His opportunities were limited, but that shooting percentage seems pretty big-time to me.
    Imo, you’re both right. Baker was a good shooter, but so limited in other ways. His poor handle limited him badly on O. His poor footwork meant both that he was a lousy perimeter defender, but also that too frequently he wasn’t properly balanced and positioned to get off his shot. As Kedsy notes, his 3-pt % was very good; but to miramar’s point, the reason he only made 75 is he just didn’t get off enough shots, because he wasn’t always feet-balanced-ready to do so.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    Imo, you’re both right. Baker was a good shooter, but so limited in other ways. His poor handle limited him badly on O. His poor footwork meant both that he was a lousy perimeter defender, but also that too frequently he wasn’t properly balanced and positioned to get off his shot. As Kedsy notes, his 3-pt % was very good; but to miramar’s point, the reason he only made 75 is he just didn’t get off enough shots, because he wasn’t always feet-balanced-ready to do so.
    In Joey Baker's Duke career, he attempted 7.7 three point shots per 40 minutes. He led Duke in three-point attempts-per-40 in 2020, 2021, and 2022 (among players with 150 or more minutes). So he got off plenty of shots, and (as both of us have noted) he made plenty of those he got off. His only "problem" was he didn't play enough minutes, in large part because his defense was so poor, and to a lesser extent because he didn't do much else, other than shoot.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    The People's Republic of Travis County
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    A) I don’t think this type of personal dig is necessary (unless this post was tongue in cheek, in which case I apologize for misjudging the tone).

    B) This is a very valid thread for this board. I understand my Michigan fandom is annoying to some and have edited myself accordingly, including in starting this conversation.

    C) Look through the last three years of my posting/writing and you’ll see I’ve been one of Joey’s biggest supporters and advocates, even when he struggled.

    Joey finished as Michigan’s third leading scorer with 9 (on 3 of 6 from deep) off the bench. Added a few rebounds, an assist, a block, and a tech (not sure what for).
    I wasn't being tongue in cheek. I really do find your penchant for bringing up Michigan to be way over the top; someone compared you to our occasional Pack and Yooveay posters, but I can't really think of any of them talking about their schools in ways that are not particularly relevant to Duke in the way that you do all the time with Michigan. BUT ... I love the reworked thread title and sporked you for it. Sorry to be so direct.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    According to the Michigan Daily [Baker's defense] still left a lot to be desired
    The game recap you quoted sounds exactly like what I would have expected from Baker after watching him for four years at Duke - good shooter, very streaky, gives effort on defense but generally gives up more on that end than he contributes on offense. I'm actually a little surprised he's playing already after having that surgery after the season ended which presumably was responsible for him falling completely out of the rotation in the postseason.

    Fans continue to gripe about burning his redshirt, but I think the bigger disservice was failing to honor him on Senior Day. He was completely ignored in favor of K's big day.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    The game recap you quoted sounds exactly like what I would have expected from Baker after watching him for four years at Duke - good shooter, very streaky, gives effort on defense but generally gives up more on that end than he contributes on offense. I'm actually a little surprised he's playing already after having that surgery after the season ended which presumably was responsible for him falling completely out of the rotation in the postseason.

    Fans continue to gripe about burning his redshirt, but I think the bigger disservice was failing to honor him on Senior Day. He was completely ignored in favor of K's big day.
    Wasn't Joey supposed to play his COVID year at Duke? If I remember correctly, he told Duke he was staying then decided to transfer at the last possible minute.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by azzefkram View Post
    Wasn't Joey supposed to play his COVID year at Duke? If I remember correctly, he told Duke he was staying then decided to transfer at the last possible minute.
    Yep, he technically put his name in the transfer portal after the deadline to be able to play this year at a different university but the NCAA must have granted him a waiver. But on "senior night", Joey was still planning a return to Duke.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    Yep, he technically put his name in the transfer portal after the deadline to be able to play this year at a different university but the NCAA must have granted him a waiver. But on "senior night", Joey was still planning a return to Duke.
    This is my recollection also. I think I recall Joey saying that he was indeed returning to Duke... but had a change of heart after the deadline to enter the transfer portal... which I think(?) was after senior night.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    In Joey Baker's Duke career, he attempted 7.7 three point shots per 40 minutes. He led Duke in three-point attempts-per-40 in 2020, 2021, and 2022 (among players with 150 or more minutes). So he got off plenty of shots, and (as both of us have noted) he made plenty of those he got off. His only "problem" was he didn't play enough minutes, in large part because his defense was so poor, and to a lesser extent because he didn't do much else, other than shoot.
    I’m not a fan of the per-40 stat, particularly for players with such significant limitations. I’ve always thought that stat (somewhat) more meaningful for a player who averaged, say, 28 mpg, than for one who averaged, say, 12. So, yes, he got off “plenty of shots” during the relatively few minutes he played, but he didn’t shoot anywhere near that hypothetical 7.7/game, because per-40 is an extrapolation-toward-unreality, a what-if that didn’t come even close to matching the reality of Baker’s limited minutes. In fact, he didn’t get off “plenty of shots” compared to many of his teammates.

    Which fact is indicated by what I see as a more relevant stat, which emphasizes not what a relatively good 3-pt shooter was Baker, but where he placed on the Duke team in each of his final 3 seasons in terms of actual 3-pt attempts.

    Over the 2019-20 season, Baker was #5 among teammates in # of 3-pt attempts.
    Over the 2020-21 season, he placed 6th.
    Over the 2021-22 season, again 6th, and in this, his senior season, he was far, far behind even the 5th-place finisher.

    My point is not to engage Kedsy in even a minor pishing contest, nor to be super-critical of Joey Baker. I do confess, however, to real perplexity as to whether Joey didn’t over 4 years work nearly hard enough on his handle and footwork, or whether he did work hard on those things but just couldn’t improve nearly enough.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by gumbomoop View Post
    I’m not a fan of the per-40 stat, particularly for players with such significant limitations. I’ve always thought that stat (somewhat) more meaningful for a player who averaged, say, 28 mpg, than for one who averaged, say, 12. So, yes, he got off “plenty of shots” during the relatively few minutes he played, but he didn’t shoot anywhere near that hypothetical 7.7/game, because per-40 is an extrapolation-toward-unreality, a what-if that didn’t come even close to matching the reality of Baker’s limited minutes. In fact, he didn’t get off “plenty of shots” compared to many of his teammates.
    I understand what you're saying and the following is not intended as an argument but rather as an explanation of why I brought up per 40 numbers in the first place.

    My point was only that if a player shoots a high number of shots per minute, then his footwork (or whatever) was not the reason why he didn't put up a high quantity of shots overall. The reason was he didn't play many minutes.

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