Dukies in the NBA: 2022-23

[DukieInBrasil]

That was last year. Earlier this season, they were playing historically good offense.

After 5+ seasons, Tatum and Brown are finally clicking. I agree the chemistry is good, but Durant is Durant. A top 15 scorer in NBA history who is still in his prime.

I'm not sure what I'd take. As guaranteed a title win this season WITH Durant or the option to win with a core of Tatum/Brown for the next decade?

Ask a Lakers fan if they'd still make the trade of AD, given it set into motion 1 natty and 3 years+ of ineptitude.

I don't know. Tough choice.

thanks for the update.
However, as you know, there are no guarantees in sports. KD seems to be a good teammate, and KD + Tatum + quality role players at every position makes BOS a strong favorite, but guarantees can't be made. Also, I see no reason to think that BOS can't win a championship this year and into the future with Brown instead of KD anyway. The flip side of that is (depending on who else BOS gives to get KD) Tatum may be enough to build around with the right role players + sidekick to win championships for a decade anyway.
To sum it up, i have no idea whether trading for KD is the better move short- or long-term, although the answer to that question might depend on who else besides Brown goes to NYN to get KD. If it's a strait-up trade, something tells BOS should do it. If they have to throw in the kitchen sink, maybe not.

[flyingdutchdevil]

thanks for the update.
However, as you know, there are no guarantees in sports. KD seems to be a good teammate, and KD + Tatum + quality role players at every position makes BOS a strong favorite, but guarantees can't be made. Also, I see no reason to think that BOS can't win a championship this year and into the future with Brown instead of KD anyway. The flip side of that is (depending on who else BOS gives to get KD) Tatum may be enough to build around with the right role players + sidekick to win championships for a decade anyway.
To sum it up, i have no idea whether trading for KD is the better move short- or long-term, although the answer to that question might depend on who else besides Brown goes to NYN to get KD. If it's a strait-up trade, something tells BOS should do it. If they have to throw in the kitchen sink, maybe not.

No pushback from me.

This season, I'd rather than Durant than Brown. Even with Brown's shooting and chemistry, Durant's ability to shoot anywhere on the floor, Durant's D, and Durant's playmaking are all much better than Brown. I think Smart + Tatum + Durant + Timelord + Horford + bench (White, Brogdon, Grant Williams) is as good of a shot as you'll find to win it all.

But Brown is 26. Durant is 34. That's a solid 8 year difference.

[JasonEvans]

But Brown is 26. Durant is 34. That's a solid 8 year difference.

Trading for KD gives them a better chance to win this year and probably next year. Keeping Brown gives them a smaller but legit chance to win a title in any of the next 8 years.

Tough call... not sure what I would do if I was Boston.

[DukieInBrasil]

No pushback from me.

This season, I'd rather than Durant than Brown. Even with Brown's shooting and chemistry, Durant's ability to shoot anywhere on the floor, Durant's D, and Durant's playmaking are all much better than Brown. I think Smart + Tatum + Durant + Timelord + Horford + bench (White, Brogdon, Grant Williams) is as good of a shot as you'll find to win it all.

But Brown is 26. Durant is 34. That's a solid 8 year difference.

Trading for KD gives them a better chance to win this year and probably next year. Keeping Brown gives them a smaller but legit chance to win a title in any of the next 8 years.

Tough call... not sure what I would do if I was Boston.

I'm not sure how essential Horford is to the whole equation, but how much longer does he have in the League? I mean, he's not playing poorly this year, in fact he's started every game he's played in, logging 30+ mpg, and scoring 9.2 ppg. So he's still solid. Interesting to note that as a C, he's largely a 3pt shooter now, and a good one at that, 42+%.

[jipops]

It’s going to be interesting to see how an offense works with both Luka and Kyrie. Or maybe more interesting, can both Luka and Kyrie be happy in it?

[cato]

It’s going to be interesting to see how an offense works with both Luka and Kyrie. Or maybe more interesting, can both Luka and Kyrie be happy in it?

Kyrie doesn’t have issues coexisting with another scorer. Or should I say he coexists as well with other scorers as anyone else.

I think Kyrie excels best when there is a clear alpha, whether LeBron or KD, but there is space for him to do his own thing, which may include simply taking over a few games here and there or hitting a game winning shot in Game 7 of the Finals.

Kyrie can make just about any team better on the court. It’s the other part about being a teammate which remains, shall we say, an open question.

[Steven43]

bad idea. Boston's chemistry is so good right now, and Brown is a big part of that. They're playing historically good defense and their offense is potent enough to beat anybody. Durant is a gifted offensive player and i don't know enough about his defense, though i assume it is better than average. However, good chemistry is not something a GM should be wanting to mess up.

I’ve heard more than one basketball writer say that Kevin Durant is one of the top 3 offensive players in the history of basketball. To refer to him as “gifted” is a significant understatement.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a lower-level All-Star, but he’s not a guy who can swing a title. Durant on the Celtics combined with Tatum, several other good players, and several more solid rotation guys might just make the C’s the title favorite for the majority of the next 5 years. I’ll take that deal, thanks.

[kshepinthehouse]

I’ve heard more than one basketball writer say that Kevin Durant is one of the top 3 offensive players in the history of basketball. To refer to him as “gifted” is a significant understatement.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a lower-level All-Star, but he’s not a guy who can swing a title. Durant on the Celtics combined with Tatum, several other good players, and several more solid rotation guys might just make the C’s the title favorite for the majority of the next 5 years. I’ll take that deal, thanks.

Durant would be 39 in five years and has missed a lot of games due to injury the last few seasons. This would be a big risk for the Celtics.

[DukieInBrasil]

I’ve heard more than one basketball writer say that Kevin Durant is one of the top 3 offensive players in the history of basketball. To refer to him as “gifted” is a significant understatement.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a lower-level All-Star, but he’s not a guy who can swing a title. Durant on the Celtics combined with Tatum, several other good players, and several more solid rotation guys might just make the C’s the title favorite for the majority of the next 5 years. I’ll take that deal, thanks.

where's this 5 years stuff coming from?
ed.- he's currently 16th in career points, although hel'll undoubtedly be closing in on the top-13 or 14 if he plays every game the rest of the year at his ~29ppg average.

[Steven43]

Durant would be 39 in five years and has missed a lot of games due to injury the last few seasons. This would be a big risk for the Celtics.

I just don’t think this current Celtics team can get it done. I cannot see them beating Milwaukee at full strength. Having Durant tilts the balance of power in their favor. I think he has a good amount left in the tank, and he’s hungry. If the Celtics stand pat, they will not win. If they trade for Durant they very well might.

I would rather take the chance on being great than to continue being very good, but not good enough.

[Steven43]

where's this 5 years stuff coming from?

I think if Durant can avoid major injury he has five good years left in him. Optimistic? Yes, it is.

But I would roll the dice on it. I think the Celtics could win two championships with Durant, but won’t win any as currently constituted.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think if Durant can avoid major injury he has five good years left in him. Optimistic? Yes, it is.

But I would roll the dice on it. I think the Celtics could win two championships with Durant, but won’t win any as currently constituted.

Huh. I see no reason the C's couldn't win a few titles as currently constructed, but you pay a lot closer attention to them than I do.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Huh. I see no reason the C's couldn't win a few titles as currently constructed, but you pay a lot closer attention to them than I do.

The point is the Celtics become the overwhelming favorite this year (and probably next year) with a healthy Durant. He's a top 3 offensive player with really good defensive chops when it matters. A healthy Durant > a health Brown in 2023. No question about it.

However, the Celtics needs to weigh that vs the long term impact, ie 2025 onwards where Durant will be older and even more injury prone whereas Brown is at the prime or his prime (28-32 years old).

Really, really tough call.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The point is the Celtics become the overwhelming favorite this year (and probably next year) with a healthy Durant. He's a top 3 offensive player with really good defensive chops when it matters. A healthy Durant > a health Brown in 2023. No question about it.

However, the Celtics needs to weigh that vs the long term impact, ie 2025 onwards where Durant will be older and even more injury prone whereas Brown is at the prime or his prime (28-32 years old).

Really, really tough call.

Exactly. I don't see the need to mortgage their (very bright) future to make an upgrade that doesn't seem necessary.

It's obviously not a given that they will win with Tatum/Brown. Nothing is a given. Injuries happen, etc. But it isn't a given with Durant either.

I'd keep the known quantity and amazing chemistry that has organically grown around these young stars.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Exactly. I don't see the need to mortgage their (very bright) future to make an upgrade that doesn't seem necessary.

It's obviously not a given that they will win with Tatum/Brown. Nothing is a given. Injuries happen, etc. But it isn't a given with Durant either.

I'd keep the known quantity and amazing chemistry that has organically grown around these young stars.

No, it's not. But it becomes as close to it as possible. Durant + Tatum will absolutely work. Durant can play with other ball-dominant players (like Tatum) and succeed.

Tatum and Durant are both top 10 players and both are top 5 two-way players. That, with Smart, Brogdon, Horford, Timelord, Grant Williams, and a few nice pieces is a scary team. Few weaknesses, elite on O and D.

The other risk that makes this very complicated is Jaylen Brown's opinion of the Celtics. It's not a secret there is some tension between the two; Jaylen is absolutely second fiddle to Tatum (does he want to be his own alpha?). Jaylen has been part of real trade discussions at least twice (with the latest being this past summer when the Celtics were considering trading for Durant). And Jaylen can opt out of his contract and walk away from the Celtics next summer.

With Durant, you have him for another 3.5 years guaranteed. No player option for him to opt out.

I unfortunately am leaning towards trading for Durant. Sigh...

[SouthernDukie]

I’ve heard more than one basketball writer say that Kevin Durant is one of the top 3 offensive players in the history of basketball. To refer to him as “gifted” is a significant understatement.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a lower-level All-Star, but he’s not a guy who can swing a title. Durant on the Celtics combined with Tatum, several other good players, and several more solid rotation guys might just make the C’s the title favorite for the majority of the next 5 years. I’ll take that deal, thanks.

Jaylen is a very, very good player who has been great for Boston this year. Having said that, I'd lean toward getting KD *if* Brown was the only major player Boston had to give up to get him. If the Nets insist on anything more than White as a 2nd player, plus some future draft picks, I'd balk. No way should the Celtics give up Smart or Horford or Williams (either of them) or Brogdon on top of giving up Brown & possibly White. No way, no how. KD is great, but the Celtics need those other guys to go along with Tatum and Durant to win a title this year.

On last thing about Brown. As dynamic as I think he is, my big concerns about him are his dribbling into traffic/senseless turnovers AND late game clutch free throws. I feel like he gags a bit under the bright lights very late in games. So Durant is clearly a major upgrade there, even if you only have him for another 3 years.

[mkirsh]

No, it's not. But it becomes as close to it as possible. Durant + Tatum will absolutely work. Durant can play with other ball-dominant players (like Tatum) and succeed.

Tatum and Durant are both top 10 players and both are top 5 two-way players. That, with Smart, Brogdon, Horford, Timelord, Grant Williams, and a few nice pieces is a scary team. Few weaknesses, elite on O and D.

The other risk that makes this very complicated is Jaylen Brown's opinion of the Celtics. It's not a secret there is some tension between the two; Jaylen is absolutely second fiddle to Tatum (does he want to be his own alpha?). Jaylen has been part of real trade discussions at least twice (with the latest being this past summer when the Celtics were considering trading for Durant). And Jaylen can opt out of his contract and walk away from the Celtics next summer.

With Durant, you have him for another 3.5 years guaranteed. No player option for him to opt out.

I unfortunately am leaning towards trading for Durant. Sigh...

With how often players demand trades mid-contract and Durant’s mercurial history, not to mention injury history and age, I’m not so sure you can count on 3.5 years.

[Steven43]

Jaylen is a very, very good player who has been great for Boston this year. Having said that, I'd lean toward getting KD *if* Brown was the only major player Boston had to give up to get him. If the Nets insist on anything more than White as a 2nd player, plus some future draft picks, I'd balk. No way should the Celtics give up Smart or Horford or Williams (either of them) or Brogdon on top of giving up Brown & possibly White. No way, no how. KD is great, but the Celtics need those other guys to go along with Tatum and Durant to win a title this year.

On last thing about Brown. As dynamic as I think he is, my big concerns about him are his dribbling into traffic/senseless turnovers AND late game clutch free throws. I feel like he gags a bit under the bright lights very late in games. So Durant is clearly a major upgrade there, even if you only have him for another 3 years.

It’s kind of eerie in that I feel as if I had written these exact words. Spooky. 👻

100% agreement.

[kshepinthehouse]

The point is the Celtics become the overwhelming favorite this year (and probably next year) with a healthy Durant. He's a top 3 offensive player with really good defensive chops when it matters. A healthy Durant > a health Brown in 2023. No question about it.

However, the Celtics needs to weigh that vs the long term impact, ie 2025 onwards where Durant will be older and even more injury prone whereas Brown is at the prime or his prime (28-32 years old).

Really, really tough call.

Injuries have to be a factor, right?

[DukieInBrasil]

I just don’t think this current Celtics team can get it done. I cannot see them beating Milwaukee at full strength. Having Durant tilts the balance of power in their favor. I think he has a good amount left in the tank, and he’s hungry. If the Celtics stand pat, they will not win. If they trade for Durant they very well might.

I would rather take the chance on being great than to continue being very good, but not good enough.

They beat MIL last year with pretty much the same lineup construction, and they've beaten MIL this year 139-118. Not sure where you get this "can't beat MIL" idea.

The point is the Celtics become the overwhelming favorite this year (and probably next year) with a healthy Durant. He's a top 3 offensive player with really good defensive chops when it matters. A healthy Durant > a health Brown in 2023. No question about it.
However, the Celtics needs to weigh that vs the long term impact, ie 2025 onwards where Durant will be older and even more injury prone whereas Brown is at the prime or his prime (28-32 years old).
Really, really tough call.

the clincher for me would be what else BKN demands. Brown + some picks, probably a good trade. Brown + White (Tan?), even that might make BOS balk.

Exactly. I don't see the need to mortgage their (very bright) future to make an upgrade that doesn't seem necessary.
It's obviously not a given that they will win with Tatum/Brown. Nothing is a given. Injuries happen, etc. But it isn't a given with Durant either.
I'd keep the known quantity and amazing chemistry that has organically grown around these young stars.

That's been my take on it. I'm no GM, so what do I know. Seems to me that a strait-up trade of Brown for KD is likely a good deal, but if BOS has to give up more than Brown and a future pick or two seems like a no bueno.