Dukies in the NBA: 2022-23

[SouthernDukie]

It’s kind of eerie in that I feel as if I had written these exact words. Spooky. 👻

100% agreement.

Sorry if I missed you saying the exact same thing. But that is definitely the way I see it.

[SouthernDukie]

the clincher for me would be what else BKN demands. Brown + some picks, probably a good trade. Brown + White (Tan?), even that might make BOS balk.


That's been my take on it. I'm no GM, so what do I know. Seems to me that a strait-up trade of Brown for KD is likely a good deal, but if BOS has to give up more than Brown and a future pick or two seems like a no bueno.

Sounds like what I just wrote. LOL, just passing along Steven saying that to me. Celtics' fans have always had a hive mind.

[Steven43]

Sorry if I missed you saying the exact same thing. But that is definitely the way I see it.

No, I had only written it in my mind, but not yet penned it.

Gosh, I hope the Celtics make this trade. But we’ll still be very good and have a decent shot at the title this year regardless. 🍀

[SouthernDukie]

No, I had only written it in my mind, but not yet penned it.

Gosh, I hope the Celtics make this trade. But we’ll still be very good and have a decent shot at the title this year regardless. 🍀

Barring injuries, we have a great chance either way. No doubt about that.

[JasonEvans]

There is a factor in the whole Brown for Durant thing that many seem to be overlooking...

Though many have framed it as such, I am not sure that this is a debate of a few years of Durant versus a decade of Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown is due to be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the 2024 season. Yes, the team that has him at that time would have the inside track to re-signing him, but it is not a done deal. Even a highly desirable free agent who is offered the max (as I suspect the Celtics would offer Brown) might decide to leave the team. KD is actually under team control until 2026.

I have heard it said that teams don't trade players, they trade contracts. Well, Durant's contract might be more desirable than Browns at the moment.

If I am the Celtics and I can make this deal, I would do it. I would probably even be willing to toss in a useful piece or a draft pick in the next 2 years (extremely likely to be a late first round pick) as additional incentive.

[brevity]

I guess we're talking about this trade in this thread because of Jayson Tatum?

I don't have a strong opinion on the Celtics, Nets, Jaylen Brown, or Kevin Durant. My first impression is that trading Brown for Durant is a bad idea for the Celtics, but that's more of a feeling than a belief. The Celtics look like a team that should win the title this year as they are currently constructed -- especially if the standings hold, the playoffs go chalk, and they play Denver in the finals. It would be disappointing to not get a chance to see that happen.

On the other hand, I've been hearing for years how the coexistence of Brown and Tatum has a short shelf life, and this Durant suggestion may be the best return the Celtics will ever get for separating them. The Celtics organization has a much better handle about how Brown feels about staying in Boston long-term. If Brown plans to leave, either as a free agent or by eventual trade (or sign-and-trade) request, the Celtics will probably lose whatever bargaining power they have right now.

[kshepinthehouse]

I guess we're talking about this trade in this thread because of Jayson Tatum?

I don't have a strong opinion on the Celtics, Nets, Jaylen Brown, or Kevin Durant. My first impression is that trading Brown for Durant is a bad idea for the Celtics, but that's more of a feeling than a belief. The Celtics look like a team that should win the title this year as they are currently constructed -- especially if the standings hold, the playoffs go chalk, and they play Denver in the finals. It would be disappointing to not get a chance to see that happen.

On the other hand, I've been hearing for years how the coexistence of Brown and Tatum has a short shelf life, and this Durant suggestion may be the best return the Celtics will ever get for separating them. The Celtics organization has a much better handle about how Brown feels about staying in Boston long-term. If Brown plans to leave, either as a free agent or by eventual trade (or sign-and-trade) request, the Celtics will probably lose whatever bargaining power they have right now.

This is a really good point. It’s not about Brown but the pairing of Brown/Tatum.

[budwom]

Durant is fabulous. Having said that, as the PTI guys point out, he is chronically aggrieved. This would be a huge mistake

[Steven43]

Durant is fabulous. Having said that, as the PTI guys point out, he is chronically aggrieved. This would be a huge mistake

He can be aggrieved all he wants if he helps bring the Celtics two championships (and it very well could have been three) like he did with Golden State. 😉

[Matches]

There is a factor in the whole Brown for Durant thing that many seem to be overlooking...

Though many have framed it as such, I am not sure that this is a debate of a few years of Durant versus a decade of Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown is due to be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the 2024 season.

NBA teams simply can’t make decisions based on what might happen 5-7 years from now. Too many variables.

5 years ago Paul George was a Pacer and many thought he always would be. Kawhi was a Spur. Lebron was still in Cleveland. Tatum was a rookie.

5 years before that, Lebron was in Miami. Tatum was in high school. Durant was in OkC. Kyrie had no baggage.

Trading Brown for Durant would make the Celtics better. If that’s an option for them, they pretty much have to do it.

[budwom]

He can be aggrieved all he wants if he helps bring the Celtics two championships (and it very well could have been three) like he did with Golden State. 😉

True but I think instead he will mess up their excellent chemistry. Do not see Brad making this move

[flyingdutchdevil]

NBA teams simply can’t make decisions based on what might happen 5-7 years from now. Too many variables.

5 years ago Paul George was a Pacer and many thought he always would be. Kawhi was a Spur. Lebron was still in Cleveland. Tatum was a rookie.

5 years before that, Lebron was in Miami. Tatum was in high school. Durant was in OkC. Kyrie had no baggage.

Trading Brown for Durant would make the Celtics better. If that’s an option for them, they pretty much have to do it.

Yes, but you should be able to plan 2-3 years from now. And Durant will be 36-37 by then. As much as we admire Lebron's excellence at 38, he is an n of 1. Durant likely will not be the Durant of the last 5 years in 2-3 years. 7 foot, not much bulk, injury prone... it's a helluva risk.

Brown could be a top 15 player in 2-3 years. Hell, he's already a top 25 player today. Do you break that up? The Celtics could be contenders for the next 8 years with Tatum and Brown.

[cato]

Yes, but you should be able to plan 2-3 years from now. And Durant will be 36-37 by then. As much as we admire Lebron's excellence at 38, he is an n of 1. Durant likely will not be the Durant of the last 5 years in 2-3 years. 7 foot, not much bulk, injury prone... it's a helluva risk.

Brown could be a top 15 player in 2-3 years. Hell, he's already a top 25 player today. Do you break that up? The Celtics could be contenders for the next 8 years with Tatum and Brown.

I hear you on the injury angle, but there are only three 7ft players I can think of who could score as well or better than KD — Kareem, Wilt and Shaq, and all three are top ten scorers in NBA history, although they are behind names like Jordan, James, Wilkins, Bryant, Harden, Curry on points per minute.

But KD scores at a clip like Jordan and James, and unlike some of the other players on the list above, does not rely on superior athleticism to score.

Brown could be a top 15 player in 2-3 years, but he will never be the absolute elite scorer that KD is and likely will remain — if he can get and stay healthy.

One other thing that almost all the other players listed above have in common is multiple NBA championships.

[roywhite]

Nice to see Brandon Ingram back in action, and playing well after getting some rust out.

The progression over 5 games now has been impressive:

1/28 vs Washington, 22 points, 36.4% FG, 20% 3-Pt, 6 turnovers
1/31 vs Denver, 16 points, 29.4% FG, 25% 3-Pt, 4 turnovers
2/2 vs Dallas, 26 points, 50% FG, 50% 3-Pt, 3 turnovers
2/4 vs LA Lakers, 35 points, 53.6% FG, no 3-Pt, 3 turnovers
2/7 vs Atlanta, 30 points, 61.1% FG, no 3-Pt, 8 assists and 5 turnovers

Now, if we could only get Zion back, the Pels can get over their January slump and make some noise.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Nice to see Brandon Ingram back in action, and playing well after getting some rust out.

The progression over 5 games now has been impressive:

1/28 vs Washington, 22 points, 36.4% FG, 20% 3-Pt, 6 turnovers
1/31 vs Denver, 16 points, 29.4% FG, 25% 3-Pt, 4 turnovers
2/2 vs Dallas, 26 points, 50% FG, 50% 3-Pt, 3 turnovers
2/4 vs LA Lakers, 35 points, 53.6% FG, no 3-Pt, 3 turnovers
2/7 vs Atlanta, 30 points, 61.1% FG, no 3-Pt, 8 assists and 5 turnovers

Now, if we could only get Zion back, the Pels can get over their January slump and make some noise.

I am interested to keep an eye on the Pelicans the second half of the season. If they can get right, they could absolutely make some noise.

[phaedrus]

True but I think instead he will mess up their excellent chemistry. Do not see Brad making this move

As a very optimistic Bucks fan, I definitely do not want to see the Celtics get Durant for Brown. I feel better about our chances against the current Celtics roster.

To bring this back to Duke, part of the reason for this view is that our starting shooting guard, Grayson Allen (already overmatched defensively against the Celtics) would get mercilessly targeted by Tatum/Durant.

[SouthernDukie]

As a very optimistic Bucks fan, I definitely do not want to see the Celtics get Durant for Brown. I feel better about our chances against the current Celtics roster.

To bring this back to Duke, part of the reason for this view is that our starting shooting guard, Grayson Allen (already overmatched defensively against the Celtics) would get mercilessly targeted by Tatum/Durant.

Don't worry. By the time the playoffs roll around I'm confident Joe Ingles will have taken Grayson's spot in the starting lineup. He was Allen's kryptonite in Utah, and I fear he'll displace him again in Milwaukee. Especially once Middleton rounds back into form. The starting 5 will probably be shuffled and Grayson won't be starting, or more importantly, ending games. It will either be Portis, Ingles, or Connaughton that will be taking minutes from him.

Yes, I'm pessimistic. Someone come in and cheer me up on this one.

[flyingdutchdevil]

As a very optimistic Bucks fan, I definitely do not want to see the Celtics get Durant for Brown. I feel better about our chances against the current Celtics roster.

To bring this back to Duke, part of the reason for this view is that our starting shooting guard, Grayson Allen (already overmatched defensively against the Celtics) would get mercilessly targeted by Tatum/Durant.

Grayson got targeted by every Celtic guard/wing in that series. That's the playoffs: identify the weakest defender and go at them time and time again.

That isn't going to change with Durant. They will continue to target Grayson just like last year.

[phaedrus]

Grayson got targeted by every Celtic guard/wing in that series. That's the playoffs: identify the weakest defender and go at them time and time again.

That isn't going to change with Durant. They will continue to target Grayson just like last year.

I totally agree, except I think it would be worse with Durant. Grayson has a sliver of a chance to slow Brown some of the time; he has no chance to slow Durant.

Of course, Grayson might just not play much in a potential series against the Celtics. There's not an easy solution for the Bucks at the moment, though. There's been much rumored about picking up Jae Crowder, and more recently, Cam Reddish. Both would be upgrades as wing defenders.

[sagegrouse]

Grayson got targeted by every Celtic guard/wing in that series. That's the playoffs: identify the weakest defender and go at them time and time again.

That isn't going to change with Durant. They will continue to target Grayson just like last year.

A bit over the top, don't you think, for a team that plays Connaughton?