Dukies in the NBA: 2022-23

[johnb]

Quick comment about Zion gossip…

It’s very difficult to enter into that fray without a) relying on untrustworthy news sources; b) getting far away from basketball; and c) sinking knee deep into assumptions/stereotypes related to class, race, gender, etc.

The obvious: people tend to demonize other people from other subgroups, and the U.S. has many subgroups.

Less obvious: the harshest criticisms often come from within that subgroup or from an adjacent subgroup. Probably related to narcissism of small differences.

Since 500 words on the above would be time consuming and likely to get me banned, I’m happy to add a neuroanatomical/developmental reality: the neurocircuitry of most 19 year old boys/men is less developed than that of adult women/men and similarly-aged girls/women, and that leads to differences in risk assessment.* Differences in risk assessment are simply differences, and it’s probably useful (at least to their older administrators) for people not to experience the adult amount of fear when handed a helmet to be a front-line soldier or a high-level contact athlete.

When 20 year old boys/men (I say boys/men because they may look big, but their brains still have a lot of adolescent in them) are handed virtually unlimited access to things that adolescents want, we should expect undisciplined behavior.

Interestingly, sports leagues and militaries tend to be some of the most disciplined organizations in the world (they know who they’re dealing with).

In many sports, super elite athletes tend to be personally quite disciplined about their health since otherwise they’d quickly become ex-athletes. There may be some sports, or at least some positions in some sports, in which sheer athleticism is the key separator, and that doesn’t necessarily require discipline.

Anyway, the reason that I went on at length is because I wanted to figure out why the gossip bugged me. And it did come back to stuff that doesn’t have to do with the developing adolescent brain but instead has to do with assumptions about race, class, and gender. And those are assumptions/stereotypes that I try to at least identify so that I can choose whether to partake.


* Casey, BJ & Glatt, GE, Lee, FS (2015) Treating the developing versus the developed brain:
Preclinical mouse and human studies. Neuron 86 (6), 1358-1368

Lots of articles on the topic…

[bundabergdevil]

Okay, I think this is all a bit too much at this point. First of all, as far as I know it’s only been one teammate, CJ McCollum, who has “called out” Zion. And he didn’t even say anything that dramatic. His comments don’t seem like a particularly big deal to me. And McCollum has seemed to have a negative attitude towards Zion from day one of joining the Pelicans. And anyway, who died and appointed CJ McCollum as the arbiter of all things that a teammate is supposed to be?

And as far as him dating a porn star or a stripper, who cares? Do you know how many young, highly-desirable multi-millionaire athletes like Zion have done that/are doing that? And Zion is not responsible for those idiots getting in a fight. Also, I’m not sure what you just now learning what “THOT” means (that has been around for what, a decade?) has to do with anything.

I wish this negativity towards Zion from DBR posters would settle down a bit.

JJ, too.

[jv001]

I would think Zion would have surrounded himself with good people. He seemed to have a great family. I bet the great David Thompson could give him some sound advice from a responsible point of view.

GoDuke!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I wish this negativity towards Zion from DBR posters would settle down a bit.

I'm not seeing much "negativity" here on DBR towards Zion. I'm seeing a lot of concern.

[Indoor66]

Quick comment about Zion gossip…

It’s very difficult to enter into that fray without a) relying on untrustworthy news sources; b) getting far away from basketball; and c) sinking knee deep into assumptions/stereotypes related to class, race, gender, etc.

The obvious: people tend to demonize other people from other subgroups, and the U.S. has many subgroups.

Less obvious: the harshest criticisms often come from within that subgroup or from an adjacent subgroup. Probably related to narcissism of small differences.

Since 500 words on the above would be time consuming and likely to get me banned, I’m happy to add a neuroanatomical/developmental reality: the neurocircuitry of most 19 year old boys/men is less developed than that of adult women/men and similarly-aged girls/women, and that leads to differences in risk assessment.* Differences in risk assessment are simply differences, and it’s probably useful (at least to their older administrators) for people not to experience the adult amount of fear when handed a helmet to be a front-line soldier or a high-level contact athlete.

When 20 year old boys/men (I say boys/men because they may look big, but their brains still have a lot of adolescent in them) are handed virtually unlimited access to things that adolescents want, we should expect undisciplined behavior.

Interestingly, sports leagues and militaries tend to be some of the most disciplined organizations in the world (they know who they’re dealing with).

In many sports, super elite athletes tend to be personally quite disciplined about their health since otherwise they’d quickly become ex-athletes. There may be some sports, or at least some positions in some sports, in which sheer athleticism is the key separator, and that doesn’t necessarily require discipline.

Anyway, the reason that I went on at length is because I wanted to figure out why the gossip bugged me. And it did come back to stuff that doesn’t have to do with the developing adolescent brain but instead has to do with assumptions about race, class, and gender. And those are assumptions/stereotypes that I try to at least identify so that I can choose whether to partake.


* Casey, BJ & Glatt, GE, Lee, FS (2015) Treating the developing versus the developed brain:
Preclinical mouse and human studies. Neuron 86 (6), 1358-1368

Lots of articles on the topic…

And in your conclusions you appear to make similar types of assumptions/stereotypes and apply them to those who have commented before.

[bundabergdevil]

I'm not seeing much "negativity" here on DBR towards Zion. I'm seeing a lot of concern.

There are a few negative reviews but yeah, overwhelmingly we all want the best for him and, well, it doesn’t look like an ideal situation to me.

[sagegrouse]

And in your conclusions you appear to make similar types of assumptions/stereotypes and apply them to those who have commented before.

I'm OK with sailing on JohnB's sloop. I think, however, post-adolescence aside,
it is a horrible look for a public figure like an NBA star. My media/PR brain, however poorly formed, argues for some public statements or charitable acts, to help balance the public perceptions.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I read an article earlier this week about baseball interpreters. The visible part of the job is during the game but they are often available to the player 24/7 to help them navigate life in a different country.

If I were a team investing a fortune in Zion or Ja Morant or whoever else, I would insist on having someone in this role.

I, like everyone else here, say this not in judgement hatred or whatever else but out of concern and support for Zion. And I think there are a lot of rich white people the same age who need the exact same thing, such as a lot of young adults in Hollywood.

[DarkstarWahoo]

I read an article earlier this week about baseball interpreters. The visible part of the job is during the game but they are often available to the player 24/7 to help them navigate life in a different country.

If I were a team investing a fortune in Zion or Ja Morant or whoever else, I would insist on having someone in this role.

I, like everyone else here, say this not in judgement hatred or whatever else but out of concern and support for Zion. And I think there are a lot of rich white people the same age who need the exact same thing, such as a lot of young adults in Hollywood.

And then there's the Cris Carter philosophy: Have a fall guy! (This method may not work for knocking up porn stars/Instagram models.)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-legal-trouble

[bluedevilwildcats]

I would think Zion would have surrounded himself with good people. He seemed to have a great family. I bet the great David Thompson could give him some sound advice from a responsible point of view.

GoDuke!

My initial impression of Zion was that he was a good kid, respected others, was a hard worker and wanted to be an exceptional teammate. I've seen and read enough over the past couple of years to think that's not the case: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/la...e-seeing-again

Now we have personal behavior which - to me - is showing the same disregard for others and lack of judgement. Having a kid with a stripper with a bad reputation, apparently keeping a porn star on the side. Zion is entitled to live his life how he wants, but it's also fair for folks like me to change their opinion of him and stop wearing his jersey.

For folks saying they want less negativity expressed towards Zion, I'd suggest he change his behavior (not just hire a PR firm) so that we have something positive to talk about.

[Alan_Wilson]

And McCollum has seemed to have a negative attitude towards Zion from day one of joining the Pelicans. And anyway, who died and appointed CJ McCollum as the arbiter of all things that a teammate is supposed to be?

t.

That's an overly reactionary take, to say the least. It's perfectly fine -desirable, even - to have a proven veteran locker room presence like CJ (or JJ, for that matter) set the barometer for how to be a good teammate, especially for young players who are navigating plenty of distractions for the first time.

[Steven43]

That's an overly reactionary take, to say the least. It's perfectly fine -desirable, even - to have a proven veteran locker room presence like CJ (or JJ, for that matter) set the barometer for how to be a good teammate, especially for young players who are navigating plenty of distractions for the first time.

Dusagree wholeheartedly. I think players and coaches should keep their negative comments about teammates in house.

[Steven43]

That's an overly reactionary take, to say the least. It's perfectly fine -desirable, even - to have a proven veteran locker room presence like CJ (or JJ, for that matter) set the barometer for how to be a good teammate, especially for young players who are navigating plenty of distractions for the first time.

To clarify my earlier comment, which I hurriedly wrote while on a changeover during a tennis match, I agree that it’s great to have a veteran locker room presence to set the barometer for how to be a good teammate.

My main point concerning McCollum is that I don’t agree with his criticizing a teammate in public. That kind of thing should be kept private, imo. Once you cross that line you cannot uncross it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

To clarify my earlier comment, which I hurriedly wrote while on a changeover during a tennis match, I agree that it’s great to have a veteran locker room presence to set the barometer for how to be a good teammate.

My main point concerning McCollum is that I don’t agree with his criticizing a teammate in public. That kind of thing should be kept private, imo. Once you cross that line you cannot uncross it.

I agree in theory. But who knows if he's been addressed personally in private over the years? I mean, maybe it's just additional strategy when other ideas haven't worked.

Coach Malone called out the Nuggets for their energy and attitude after Game 2 in the press conference. It's a tactic for sure, whether you agree with it or not.

Sports isn't like other work environments. Of course, if my boss was in the press questioning my level of effort, I'd be livid. But then again, I don't work in front of millions of people either.

My level of concern is for the young man Zion. He seems to be making decisions that range from questionable to poor, and either doesn't have the right advisors or isn't listening to those who are giving him good advice.

I'd love to see him play a full season at his highest level of ability. I think it would be something for us all to witness.

But more important is this young man getting his arms wrapped around his physicals his mentals, and his life.

[sagegrouse]

My main point concerning McCollum is that I don’t agree with his criticizing a teammate in public. That kind of thing should be kept private, imo. Once you cross that line you cannot uncross it.

It was the end of the season, and CJ was frustrated, implying that Zion could have returned to help the team. I've got no problem with his message in these exceptional circumstances.

[bluedevilwildcats]

I agree in theory. But who knows if he's been addressed personally in private over the years? I mean, maybe it's just additional strategy when other ideas haven't worked.

Coach Malone called out the Nuggets for their energy and attitude after Game 2 in the press conference. It's a tactic for sure, whether you agree with it or not.

Sports isn't like other work environments. Of course, if my boss was in the press questioning my level of effort, I'd be livid. But then again, I don't work in front of millions of people either.

My level of concern is for the young man Zion. He seems to be making decisions that range from questionable to poor, and either doesn't have the right advisors or isn't listening to those who are giving him good advice.

I'd love to see him play a full season at his highest level of ability. I think it would be something for us all to witness.

But more important is this young man getting his arms wrapped around his physicals his mentals, and his life.

Very well put, captures my thoughts as well. Rooting for him big time.

[duke74]

Getting ready to duck, but between Zion and Ja, I am thrilled that my Knicks "settled" on RJ. Strong work and life ethic, carries himself with dignity, professional. May not be as talented as the first two, but...

[budwom]

Getting ready to duck, but between Zion and Ja, I am thrilled that my Knicks "settled" on RJ. Strong work and life ethic, carries himself with dignity, professional. May not be as talented as the first two, but...

yeah, I can see that point of view. I like Zion but I'm not impressed with a bunch of his decisions...

[elvis14]

I agree in theory. But who knows if he's been addressed personally in private over the years? I mean, maybe it's just additional strategy when other ideas haven't worked.

Coach Malone called out the Nuggets for their energy and attitude after Game 2 in the press conference. It's a tactic for sure, whether you agree with it or not.

Sports isn't like other work environments. Of course, if my boss was in the press questioning my level of effort, I'd be livid. But then again, I don't work in front of millions of people either.

My level of concern is for the young man Zion. He seems to be making decisions that range from questionable to poor, and either doesn't have the right advisors or isn't listening to those who are giving him good advice.

I'd love to see him play a full season at his highest level of ability. I think it would be something for us all to witness.

But more important is this young man getting his arms wrapped around his physicals his mentals, and his life.

This is really well said MtnD. I suspect that CJ went public only after being private failed.

yeah, I can see that point of view. I like Zion but I'm not impressed with a bunch of his decisions...

Zion is probably the most liked player we have had in a very long time. To be honest, I'm upset....not because he owes me anything but because I care. Hearing that someone that has been seen as a very good young man has gotten himself mixed up with strippers and porn stars is upsetting. It just is. I'm bummed. Does it make me less of a fan...not too much but like others it makes me worried about him and think that he's not surrounding himself with the right people.

On the basketball front, I hope he can get and stay healthy...can't wait to see him play again as he's amazing on the court.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is really well said MtnD. I suspect that CJ went public only after being private failed.



Zion is probably the most liked player we have had in a very long time. To be honest, I'm upset...not because he owes me anything but because I care. Hearing that someone that has been seen as a very good young man has gotten himself mixed up with strippers and porn stars is upsetting. It just is. I'm bummed. Does it make me less of a fan...not too much but like others it makes me worried about him and think that he's not surrounding himself with the right people.

On the basketball front, I hope he can get and stay healthy...can't wait to see him play again as he's amazing on the court.

He's certainly not the first NBA player to get caught up in strippers. And if he were playing and contributing and seeming happy, I certainly wouldn't judge. But as a whole - and once again, in the vacuum of information - it doesn't look very good for the fella.

Again, it isn't a judgement of him or his character in any way. It's a point of concern for a person who - as you said - is incredibly likeable and who I want to succeed.

If he were to come out and say his heart isn't in basketball and he is retiring and has big plans for the future, I would be happy that he's following a path that he wants.