World Cup 2022 - Qatar

[Deslok]

This is exceptionally difficult to conceptualize, but the plane of the out of bounds line extends up, so if the ball is still over hanging the plane it is in...even if the part of the ball in contact with the ground is completely out. It was in but only by millimeters.

But that's the rub. It's like with the offside rule, people will talk about only being millimeters offside. He might have been 5 meters or 5 mm, either way, he's offsides. There are not different rules for being almost being in violation, it either is, or it isn't. And while it was close, the ball never went completely out.

[Phredd3]

I think the rule is fine as it is.

This next set of matches should be fun.

The rule is fine, but I don't like the current enforcement of it. According to the rule, a player is NOT offside if he is behind or LEVEL with the "second-last" opponent. The electronic enforcement of the rule have eliminated this part of the rule entirely. A player is never level with anything else. Offside should be adjudicated by a human using replay only, without the use of a computer, and an on-field decision that is not clearly incorrect should stand.

[Bluedog]

Did I read it right somewhere that there are different standards for VAR for offsides vs. other things? That is, I believe it's indicated that for offsides, VAR should be used and the call should be what is viewed as the most probable from VAR. For other things, it needs to be conclusive evidence (whatever that means). I guess it's like in American Football where they say "call stands" (no clear evidence either way, so call on field stands) vs. overturned. I believe for offsides "call stands" is not a valid option, but for something like the ball going out of bounds, it can be. I could be mistaken though...I believe the MLS has a different standard for offside VAR and requires clear evidence.

[Tooold]

If that is true (and it could certainly be argued), then there is something even more wrong with American football. At least in soccer you never have the ball completely obscured by 300+ pound behemoths.

And maybe there is! I have always thought it was ironic that they use the chains to measure “precisely” after they very imprecisely spot the ball.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Yeah but that's not how the rule has been interrupted in the past. Traditionally, a ball on the ground is considered out when it ceases to be in contact with the goal line or touchline. If the ball is in the air and over either line it's still in play like basketball and US football. Even in tennis, a ball is still playable even if it is soaring out of bounds. The ground is the defining point. This completely flips that. Now the imaginary perimeter fence around the pitch is the plane that determines it. Will FIFA disallow all those touchline saves when the ball is in the air? Is this ruling for the goal line only?



My best friend from high school has been living in Germany for just over two decades. He's always been a Germanophile so we've had friendly banter stretching back most of our lifetimes. He just skipped the Txt messaging and called right after the match. He's not happy and I think he has a case. We both understand the ruling but it breaks if the previous rules. I preferred Japan to advance but have absolutely nothing against Germany. Like with the added time, it seems FIFA is doing this on the fly or at worst has a playbook which they haven't shared with the rest of us.

Attachment 15189Attachment 15190

The picture on the left with the goalie in the background is the one I got from my German friend. Thank you for sharing the other one - it is very helpful. I'm guessing other shots are not being circulated as widely in German crowds.

His wife is Canadian so it has been a bad World Cup for their family. But they live in America so that is working out OK for them so far. And his kids also have English citizenship as they were born there. A veritable United Nations.

As I understand it, things are looking good for Uruguay right now. Though if I am reading correctly, if South Korea can score one more goal and win by one and the Uruguay game stays at 2-0, it is random lots?

[75Crazie]

Uruguay is my second least favorite team of those remaining, and along with the other (Portugal) is because of the presence of just one player (both nearing the tail ends of their major careers, I would think).

[OldPhiKap]

And maybe there is! I have always thought it was ironic that they use the chains to measure “precisely” after they very imprecisely spot the ball.

Exactly.

[gumbomoop]

As I understand it, things are looking good for Uruguay right now. Though if I am reading correctly, if South Korea can score one more goal and win by one and the Uruguay game stays at 2-0, it is random lots?

No, in the scenario you present, South Korea would go through on goals scored. After goal difference, next tiebreaker is goals scored.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

No, in the scenario you present, South Korea would go through on goals scored. After goal difference, next tiebreaker is goals scored.

Thank you for clarifying. Though I was getting really excited about the possible lot drawing.

[Tooold]

Thank you for clarifying. Though I was getting really excited about the possible lot drawing.

Plus I think if all the goal tiebreakers are even, they go to yellow/red cards….

[gumbomoop]

The ranking of teams in the group stage is determined as follows:

1.Points obtained in all group matches:
Win: 3 points;
Draw: 1 point;
Loss: 0 points;
2.Goal difference in all group matches;
3.Number of goals scored in all group matches;
4.Points obtained in the matches played between the teams in question;
5.Goal difference in the matches played between the teams in question;
6.Number of goals scored in the matches played between the teams in question;
7.Fair play points in all group matches (only one deduction can be applied to a player in a single match):
Yellow card: −1 point;
Indirect red card (second yellow card): −3 points;
Direct red card: −4 points;
Yellow card and direct red card: −5 points;
8.Drawing of lots.

[Kdogg]

ETA (after more confused thought on my part) — But, Kdogg, wait, haven’t we seen plenty of VAR goal-line technology from above that shows exactly what this above-camera showed: a ball on the ground right at the goal-line “sitting” beyond the line but whose “diameter-point” (?) is not beyond the line?

Yes! We have but I've never seen it extended beyond the posts. Goal line VAR was started in league play so fans were not introduced to it during the biggest sporting event in the world. I have no problem with the new tech but maybe don't start during the WC. They should have started using it in WC qualifiers. I'm not sure where their test bed was but my family never saw it in any match and we watch a lot of football.

I think the biggest problem is FIFA's lack of communication over VAR. In the EPL, broadcasters get immediate access to the VAR feed. FIFA is not providing that. Fox and Telemundo are just guessing which angles to show that backs the decision. It's an #$%& to the fans from FIFA. I guess that's business as usual.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Plus I think if all the goal tiebreakers are even, they go to yellow/red cards….

I believe they were tied in that metric going into today and each has one yellow today. Though I guess this is like not relevant anymore (at least for now).

[gumbomoop]

Yes! We have but I've never seen it extended beyond the posts. Goal line VAR was started in league play so fans were not introduced to it during the biggest sporting event in the world. I have no problem with the new tech but maybe don't start during the WC. They should have started using it in WC qualifiers. I'm not sure where their test bed was but my family never saw it in any match and we watch a lot of football.

I think the biggest problem is FIFA's lack of communication over VAR. In the EPL, broadcasters get immediate access to the VAR feed. FIFA is not providing that. Fox and Telemundo are just guessing which angles to show that backs the decision. It's an #$%& to the fans from FIFA. I guess that's business as usual.

Agree re FIFA lack of communication, which seems dumb lack of planning, as it can only cause more confusion and outrage.

But on goal line VAR not extended beyond posts, I thought I’d seen it regularly in EPL games this season. No? Maybe I’m just misremembering?

So when you say “never saw it in any match,” do you mean in any qualifier, nor even in, say, EPL?

[75Crazie]

But on goal line VAR not extended beyond posts, I thought I’d seen it regularly in EPL games this season. No? Maybe I’m just misremembering?

I know I've seen EPL telecasts where multiple cameras were used to show a ball outside the posts as it crossed or didn't cross the goal line, but I cannot remember VAR itself being used in such situations.

[gumbomoop]

I know I've seen EPL telecasts where multiple cameras were used to show a ball outside the posts as it crossed or didn't cross the goal line, but I cannot remember VAR itself being used in such situations.

Ah, right, cameras but not VAR cameras, ok. Thanks.

[budwom]

The picture on the left with the goalie in the background is the one I got from my German friend. Thank you for sharing the other one - it is very helpful. I'm guessing other shots are not being circulated as widely in German crowds.

His wife is Canadian so it has been a bad World Cup for their family. But they live in America so that is working out OK for them so far. And his kids also have English citizenship as they were born there. A veritable United Nations.

As I understand it, things are looking good for Uruguay right now. Though if I am reading correctly, if South Korea can score one more goal and win by one and the Uruguay game stays at 2-0, it is random lots?

A bit reminiscent of the somewhat notable photos and videos of the missed Indiana FG attempt in OT that gave Duke the Pinstripe win...angles matter would seem to be the lesson...

[gumbomoop]

Whoa, RSK score, will go through ahead of Uruguay unless Portugal score or Uruguay score 2 more!

ETA — No, i’m wrong. Uruguay need only score 1 more to go through ahead of RSK.

[Skydog]

All of my years in soccer the rule has been “entire ball has to be over the line” for a ball to be out-of-bounds. That has always been interpreted in a 3D sense - the touch line and end line planes extend straight up. In this case the overhead shot shows the ball wasn’t entirely over the line, so the ball was still in play and goal was valid.

Once overhead shot was provided there should be no controversy.

[mph]

Whoa, RSK score, will go through ahead of Uruguay unless Portugal score or Uruguay score 2 more!

Incredible play by Son to get the assist.