World Cup 2022 - Qatar

[cato]

No one has handled this well. They should all be ashamed.

But the question is — what is the best path forward?

Best path forward, IMO: hire the coach that will be tasked with leading this group of players from promising to accomplished. Gio will compete for a spot, but will have to prove himself to be more than his parent’s son.

Let the prior coach fade into the past.

[OldPhiKap]

Best path forward, IMO: hire the coach that will be tasked with leading this group of players from promising to accomplished. Gio will compete for a spot, but will have to prove himself to be more than his parent’s son.

Let the prior coach fade into the past.

Yeah, I was kinda agnostic after the World Cup. But the “leaked” camp story and then this just creates drama we don’t need.

[Kdogg]

Not sure about that last. I mean just look at Benzema and the blackmailing scandal almost a decade ago. He seems to have found success thereafter. The rule in all sports seems to be, we don't care what you do, so long as you produce wins.

Yeah but that’s the French. They require a level of drama and dysfunction to work.

[budwom]

Yeah, I was kinda agnostic after the World Cup. But the “leaked” camp story and then this just creates drama we don’t need.

I'm still pretty agnostic on Berhalter...seems like a leaked tale from 30 years ago is pretty weak, though. Talk about soccer moms.

[Kdogg]

Yeah, I was kinda agnostic after the World Cup. But the “leaked” camp story and then this just creates drama we don’t need.

I'm still pretty agnostic on Berhalter...seems like a leaked tale from 30 years ago is pretty weak, though. Talk about soccer moms.

After the World Cup there were grounds to let him go because of his coaching tactics (and lack of them).

After the leadership conference there were grounds to let him go because of bad judgement.

Now, regardless of the real reason, if they let him go it will be seen as bending the knee to the Reynas. What top flight coach wants to deal with that? People are throwing around some big names like Tuchel, Zidane, Enrique, Pochettino, Ancelotti, Mourinho. etc. It's good to aim high but come on (although I would pay good $$$ to see José). If Berhalter goes the only way to balance the scale is suspend all contact between Claudio, his wife and US Soccer. After that US Soccer has to deal with the fact that there are a ton of major openings: Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Mexico, and Brazil to name a few. Realistically, the pool is Jesse Marsch, some promising (but inexperienced) MLS coaches and a couple aging international coaches. After all this the UMNT has to figure out how to prepare with a frictionless path to the next World Cup. CONCACAF competition is just not going to cut it. There's take of the US playing for the Copa América Cup as guests which is a step forward.

It might be time to have new thread for all non EPL (Football, Fútbol, Soccer) stuff. Euro 2024 qualifying is around the corner and the knockout stages of the Champions League.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm still pretty agnostic on Berhalter...seems like a leaked tale from 30 years ago is pretty weak, though. Talk about soccer moms.

No. I meant his dig about Rayna almost getting voted off the island.

I agree that a 30 year old story is no big deal. A current beef with a player’s parents and former USMNT player is a problem though IMO.

[Phredd3]

After the World Cup there were grounds to let him go because of his coaching tactics (and lack of them).

After the leadership conference there were grounds to let him go because of bad judgement.

Now, regardless of the real reason, if they let him go it will be seen as bending the knee to the Reynas. What top flight coach wants to deal with that? People are throwing around some big names like Tuchel, Zidane, Enrique, Pochettino, Ancelotti, Mourinho. etc. It's good to aim high but come on (although I would pay good $$$ to see José). If Berhalter goes the only way to balance the scale is suspend all contact between Claudio, his wife and US Soccer. After that US Soccer has to deal with the fact that there are a ton of major openings: Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Mexico, and Brazil to name a few. Realistically, the pool is Jesse Marsch, some promising (but inexperienced) MLS coaches and a couple aging international coaches. After all this the UMNT has to figure out how to prepare with a frictionless path to the next World Cup. CONCACAF competition is just not going to cut it. There's take of the US playing for the Copa América Cup as guests which is a step forward.

It might be time to have new thread for all non EPL (Football, Fútbol, Soccer) stuff. Euro 2024 qualifying is around the corner and the knockout stages of the Champions League.

If they hire Mourinho, I won't watch another US Men's National Team game. He is toxic. He'd be a disaster coaching any national team, but especially ours.

[Bluedog]

If they hire Mourinho, I won't watch another US Men's National Team game. He is toxic. He'd be a disaster coaching any national team, but especially ours.

I've seen reports that he's going to manage Brazil (from secondary sources, as published in The Sun and The Daily Mail). That report seems to come from an ex-Porto player.

[OldPhiKap]

Mourinho is the Paul Johnson of fútbol.

[kako]

After the World Cup there were grounds to let him go because of his coaching tactics (and lack of them).

After the leadership conference there were grounds to let him go because of bad judgement.

Now, regardless of the real reason, if they let him go it will be seen as bending the knee to the Reynas. What top flight coach wants to deal with that? People are throwing around some big names like Tuchel, Zidane, Enrique, Pochettino, Ancelotti, Mourinho. etc. It's good to aim high but come on (although I would pay good $$$ to see José). If Berhalter goes the only way to balance the scale is suspend all contact between Claudio, his wife and US Soccer. After that US Soccer has to deal with the fact that there are a ton of major openings: Spain, Portugal, Holland, Belgium, Mexico, and Brazil to name a few. Realistically, the pool is Jesse Marsch, some promising (but inexperienced) MLS coaches and a couple aging international coaches. After all this the UMNT has to figure out how to prepare with a frictionless path to the next World Cup. CONCACAF competition is just not going to cut it. There's take of the US playing for the Copa América Cup as guests which is a step forward.

Good take. I would point out that after not making the WC in '18, Berhalter did coach the US to qualify and make the knockout round in '22. He got them realistically as far as anyone reasonable could expect. Coaching tactics are always questioned (just look at the Scheyer ones in the main thread... or the ones pointed at K, the GOAT, over the years). In any case, the way to avoid the appearance of capitulating to the Reynas would be to hire someone nobody would question. The US has the WC at home in 2026. So if there ever was a time to go all in and push for major results, it's this WC. I'm not crazy - in no way do I even dream of winning it. But making it to the quarters or (now dreaming) the semis? I can go with that. But they would need (among other things like, say, a striker?) a big-time coach. So... money talks. IMO now is the time. If they got one of those coaches mentioned, no one would say that US Soccer is doing it because of the Reynas.

9F

[cato]

Good take. I would point out that after not making the WC in '18, Berhalter did coach the US to qualify and make the knockout round in '22. He got them realistically as far as anyone reasonable could expect. Coaching tactics are always questioned (just look at the Scheyer ones in the main thread... or the ones pointed at K, the GOAT, over the years). In any case, the way to avoid the appearance of capitulating to the Reynas would be to hire someone nobody would question. The US has the WC at home in 2026. So if there ever was a time to go all in and push for major results, it's this WC. I'm not crazy - in no way do I even dream of winning it. But making it to the quarters or (now dreaming) the semis? I can go with that. But they would need (among other things like, say, a striker?) a big-time coach. So... money talks. IMO now is the time. If they got one of those coaches mentioned, no one would say that US Soccer is doing it because of the Reynas.

9F

The Reynas have deeply embarrassed themselves, but nothing that has come out suggests Berhalter should be re-hired. He did a good job righting a sinking ship, but it is time to move on at this point.

[kako]

The Reynas have deeply embarrassed themselves, but nothing that has come out suggests Berhalter should be re-hired. He did a good job righting a sinking ship, but it is time to move on at this point.

I'm fine with moving on. I don't think all the negativity towards Berhalter during his tenure is/was warranted (some may be)... just pointing out that, in the end, he did what he was hired to do. I just want to see a clear improvement in the hire and not some experiment or lateral move.

Berhalter as coach kind of reminds me what Mark Jackson was as the coach of the Golden State Warriors. GSW before Jackson was pretty awful most every year for 30+ years, but Jackson turned it around. He led them to the playoffs a couple of years in a row (big deal for GSW). Like Berhalter, he did play the then-younger Warrior players a lot (Curry, Thompson, Green) and pushed to get guys like Igoudala in complementary roles. But he made many questionable in-game decisions. He was let go, and GSW hired Steve Kerr. He used basically the same lineups (different coaching moves and set up his own team environment), and the rest is history. Again, I'm not saying a brilliant hire will yield the World Cup trophy, but I do think 2026 is the year primed for a better US performance... if the right hire is made.

9F

[flyingdutchdevil]

Hi kid cannot catch a break. Out two months with a knee injury.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea-...-graham-potter

[Bluedog]

Hi kid cannot catch a break. Out two months with a knee injury.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/chelsea-...-graham-potter

The Premier League has "temporary switches"? That's pretty cool, but a totally foreign concept to U.S. leagues if my assumption is correct. How does that work? A guy competes for another team for a month and then goes back? Huh?

[Kdogg]

The Premier League has "temporary switches"? That's pretty cool, but a totally foreign concept to U.S. leagues if my assumption is correct. How does that work? A guy competes for another team for a month and then goes back? Huh?

Player movement is classified by three terms: a free transfer, a transfer and a loan. A free transfer is the same as a free agent here. A player can go anywhere they chose. Messi was out of contract with Barca so he signed at PSG without Barca getting anything in return. A transfer usually requires the receiving team to pay a fee to the original club…though not always. You will see this referred to as buying a player. The player has to agree to it and usually gets a bump in pay and a new contract. Aston Villa was paid £100 million by City for the rights to Jack Grealish a couple of years ago. City still has to pay Jack. Judy Bellingham is going to make Dortmund a mint this summer because teams are lining up for him. Man U could not find anyone to take Cristiano Ronaldo as a transfer. Mbappé was out of contract at PSG last summer. Everyone thought he would go to Real Madrid but at the last minute he stayed at PSG. Now he wants out. Real Madrid will have to pay PSG a huge fee. If he did it last year it would have been free. A loan is the third way players can be moved. If Team A is short of players (or positions) they can approach Team B and ask about the availability of a player. They hash or terms including the fee, the time and any call back options. Team B then pays Team A the fee for that player and pays the player’s. Why would Team A do this? Sometimes they want the extra money. Sometimes the player they loan can’t get playing time because there are people in front of them. The Argentinian keeper, Emiliano Martínez, spent the better part of a decade on loan from Arsenal. He couldn’t consistently crack the starting lineup for eight years but Arsenal wanted to keep him around. This gets him in game shape. Sometimes the loan can be made permanent if all parties agree.

[Bluedog]

Player movement is classified by three terms: a free transfer, a transfer and a loan. A free transfer is the same as a free agent here. A player can go anywhere they chose. Messi was out of contract with Barca so he signed at PSG without Barca getting anything in return. A transfer usually requires the receiving team to pay a fee to the original club…though not always. You will see this referred to as buying a player. The player has to agree to it and usually gets a bump in pay and a new contract. Aston Villa was paid £100 million by City for the rights to Jack Grealish a couple of years ago. City still has to pay Jack. Judy Bellingham is going to make Dortmund a mint this summer because teams are lining up for him. Man U could not find anyone to take Cristiano Ronaldo as a transfer. Mbappé was out of contract at PSG last summer. Everyone thought he would go to Real Madrid but at the last minute he stayed at PSG. Now he wants out. Real Madrid will have to pay PSG a huge fee. If he did it last year it would have been free. A loan is the third way players can be moved. If Team A is short of players (or positions) they can approach Team B and ask about the availability of a player. They hash or terms including the fee, the time and any call back options. Team B then pays Team A the fee for that player and pays the player’s. Why would Team A do this? Sometimes they want the extra money. Sometimes the player they loan can’t get playing time because there are people in front of them. The Argentinian keeper, Emiliano Martínez, spent the better part of a decade on loan from Arsenal. He couldn’t consistently crack the starting lineup for eight years but Arsenal wanted to keep him around. This gets him in game shape. Sometimes the loan can be made permanent if all parties agree.

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I just thought it'd be funny if you ship a player "on loan" for a few weeks to someone else and then they compete against their actual "contracted" team...AWKWARD....I guess it happens. But maybe there's isn't as much back and forth WITHIN the same season within the same league. Or maybe I'm wrong. There'd be some strange incentives if a player gets loaned to a competitor but knows they're going back, right? Don't they want to be on the winning team by season's end and it might change their behavior if they know they're going back? I guess there are no "playoffs" and player's want to perform their best regardless.

[Phredd3]

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I just thought it'd be funny if you ship a player "on loan" for a few weeks to someone else and then they compete against their actual "contracted" team...AWKWARD...I guess it happens. But maybe there's isn't as much back and forth WITHIN the same season within the same league. Or maybe I'm wrong. There'd be some strange incentives if a player gets loaned to a competitor but knows they're going back, right? Don't they want to be on the winning team by season's end and it might change their behavior if they know they're going back? I guess there are no "playoffs" and player's want to perform their best regardless.

Most loan agreements include a clause that the loaned player cannot play against the owning club. I don't know if there are any league-wide rules that are in play there, but you just don't see this happen.

[Kdogg]

Cool, thanks for the explanation. I just thought it'd be funny if you ship a player "on loan" for a few weeks to someone else and then they compete against their actual "contracted" team...AWKWARD...I guess it happens. But maybe there's isn't as much back and forth WITHIN the same season within the same league. Or maybe I'm wrong. There'd be some strange incentives if a player gets loaned to a competitor but knows they're going back, right? Don't they want to be on the winning team by season's end and it might change their behavior if they know they're going back? I guess there are no "playoffs" and player's want to perform their best regardless.

In the EPL, it’s explicitly against the rules for league play. They are allowed for domestic cup matches (FA and League). I don’t know if other leagues in Europe have the same rule. The transfer rules are standardized so I would guess they do.