MBB: Roster Ht/Wt updates

[KKDL19]

GoDuke has updated the rosters and there are some notable changes
Whitehead is not listed at 6-8 220 the same size as Mark Mitchell
Flip is 7 foot
Lively is up to 230
Grandison is down from 210 to 185 and Blakes trimmed off 8lbs from 208 to 200

The roster has 4 7 footers

[SkyBrickey]

If Whitehead is really now 6-8, with his agility and skill set, he is going to be a nightmare for opposing defenses. Exciting.

[AGDukesky]

GoDuke has Grandison at 190 which seems a bit light for 6’6 but probably means he will be living primarily on the perimeter (not surprising). It should help with his quickness on defense though.

[MChambers]

Can he really be 6'8" 220? Wasn't he 6'6" 190 earlier this year? And he and Mitchell are the same size? I'm skeptical.

We need some pics with cinder blocks!

[scottdude8]

If Whitehead is really now 6-8, with his agility and skill set, he is going to be a nightmare for opposing defenses. Exciting.

Can he really be 6'8" 220? Wasn't he 6'6" 190 earlier this year? And he and Mitchell are the same size? I'm skeptical.

We need some pics with cinder blocks!

Julian and I happened to be chatting yesterday and this stuck out to us too. It's not outside the realm of possibility that Dariq is still growing... after all, he's still relatively young for his class having just turned 18 in August.

If that is a legit 6-foot-8, Dariq is going to create mismatches across the floor wherever he plays, which should add to our versatility. I've talked a lot this summer about Jacob Grandison's ability to play the small-ball 4, something he did with success at Illinois, but if Dariq is 6-8 he could conceivably do that too. We could put out a lineup of Jeremy, Tyrese, Dariq, Jacob and Derrick that would be insanely switchable. Heck, put Mark in instead of Derrick and squint hard enough and you can see some resemblances to Golden State's "death lineup."

Whatever happens this year, it's going to be a fun ride given the versatility we have. For the first time in a while we legitimately could have a handful of different lineups that play the most minutes in a given game based on the matchup, which is a huge luxury in the modern game where rotations are tightening and depth is down thanks to the transfer portal.

[budwom]

I have no idea how correct these listings may be, but I do know that they are often inconsistent from year to year, (players have shrunk) do not mesh with comments made by Coach K (e.g. X gained 20 lbs this year) and by and large kids can be as tall as they want to be.

[DoubleBlue]

The average height based on this new roster listing is 79.6 inches (6' 7.6"). According to KenPom (subscription side) the tallest college team last year was FSU at 79.7 inches. Second was Arizona at 79.4". Duke last year was 78.4". Impressive.

Digging into past years' data at KenPom, here is the past 16 years of data for Duke and the tallest team each year. In this time frame, this year's team is the tallest Duke team ever and it may be the tallest in college basketball. Granted, these roster numbers may not be totally accurate, but that can be said for any other team's listed roster.

Team Height.jpg

[flyingdutchdevil]

The average height based on this new roster listing is 79.6 inches (6' 7.6"). According to KenPom (subscription side) the tallest college team last year was FSU at 79.7 inches. Second was Arizona at 79.4". Duke last year was 78.4". Impressive.

Digging into past years' data at KenPom, here is the past 16 years of data for Duke and the tallest team each year. In this time frame, this year's team is the tallest Duke team ever and it may be the tallest in college basketball. Granted, these roster numbers may not be totally accurate, but that can be said for any other team's listed roster.

Team Height.jpg

You including Spencer Hubbard in that calculation? Cus if you don't, you can probably give an extra inch to the average...

[DoubleBlue]

You including Spencer Hubbard in that calculation? Cus if you don't, you can probably give an extra inch to the average...

Good catch... I made an error in converting and I used 6'8" rather than 5'8" for Hubbard... my apologies. That brings down the team average to 78.8 inches.

However, that brings up the issue of who to include. I see KenPom only tracks the top 10 players for most teams... only those who contribute significantly to the stats. We'll have to wait and see if Hubbard is inlcuded in the KenPom height calculations... perhaps not. Probably many rosters have a few shorter walk-ons that might similarly be excluded.

[DoubleBlue]

Found this:

https://kenpom.com/blog/height-and-other-stuff-page/

Height data
– Overall average height is computed by taking the average listed height of every player on the team, weighted by minutes played. Players that have played less than 10% of their team’s minutes are not included.

– To calculate the positional height data, the minutes played for each team are ordered by height. Thus the 20% of minutes played by the tallest players are assumed to be center minutes, the next 20% are assumed to be power forward minutes, etc.

– Effective height is the average of the center and power forward position. The rationale for this is described in more detail here.

So a player who never plays or has only garbage-time minutes will be excluded. However you can see that KenPom uses a more complicated calculation based on playing time so my straight average is somewhat apples and oranges.

[UrinalCake]

I thought the KenPom height calculations do a weighted average based on number of minutes played. I could be wrong though. Obviously we won’t be able to do those for our team until the minutes thread gets going….

EDIT: DoubleBlue beat me to it. I don’t know why KenPom doesn’t just multiply height by minutes played for each player and divide by total minutes, but then again I’m not a statistical guru.

[DoubleBlue]

I thought the KenPom height calculations do a weighted average based on number of minutes played. I could be wrong though. Obviously we won’t be able to do those for our team until the minutes thread gets going….

EDIT: DoubleBlue beat me to it. I don’t know why KenPom doesn’t just multiply height by minutes played and divide by total minutes, but then again I’m not a statistical guru.

Yes, you're correct. My edit above covers that. Nonetheless, this is a very tall team!!

[TrickDribbles99]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't Scheyer's 2010 team the tallest starting 5 in Duke history, at least at that point?

[DoubleBlue]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't Scheyer's 2010 team the tallest starting 5 in Duke history, at least at that point?

According to the KenPom team height calcs, which have some nuances as discussed above... not counting this year's team...
Duke's tallest teams were 1) 2018, 2) 2010 and 3) 2019 and 2016 (tied).

[flyingdutchdevil]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't Scheyer's 2010 team the tallest starting 5 in Duke history, at least at that point?

6'3", 6'5", 6'8", 6'8", 7'0"

That's really tall.

Let's assume Roach, Grandison, Whitehead, Flip, and Lively. That's 6'2", 6'6", 6'8", 7'0", 7'1". Insane. However, Roach isn't 6'2". There is a little "Demarcus Nelson" in those measurements...

[JayZee]

6'3", 6'5", 6'8", 6'8", 7'0"

That's really tall.

Let's assume Roach, Grandison, Whitehead, Flip, and Lively. That's 6'2", 6'6", 6'8", 7'0", 7'1". Insane. However, Roach isn't 6'2". There is a little "Demarcus Nelson" in those measurements...

Color me skeptical on DQ really being 6'8". There is a pic of him next to Scheyer and Dariq looked similar in height to Jon, maybe a touch taller, but not 3 inches taller. The 220 I believe though. He sure doesn't look like a freshman.

Mark Mitchell looks every bit of 6'8" though. Will be interesting to see Mark and Dariq side by side in a huddle.

[dukelifer]

Can he really be 6'8" 220? Wasn't he 6'6" 190 earlier this year? And he and Mitchell are the same size? I'm skeptical.

We need some pics with cinder blocks!

Maybe the measurement was taken when in his boot. That is likely wrong.

[MChambers]

Maybe the measurement was taken when in his boot. That is likely wrong.

30 lb boot? New kind of treatment!

[CDu]

I may be misremembering, but wasn't Scheyer's 2010 team the tallest starting 5 in Duke history, at least at that point?

Last year’s late-season starters were slightly taller than the 2010 late-season starters.

7’1”
6’10”
6’6”
6’6”
6’2”

[jimmymax]

Apparently Dariq shrank today -- now down to 6'7" on goduke.com. Probably was measured right when he got up and spine compressed during the course of the day. Happens to us all.