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  1. #2361
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by snowdenscold View Post
    Even this is way more complicated than you might think. It's probably outside the bounds for this thread everything that I would get into, but I have probably spent dozens, if not hundreds of hours in the past couple years reading, listening, thinking, and talking about this very topic.

    I'm not disagreeing with your last sentence, but the inputs and definitions that go into that gets real strange, real fast.

    And even if you can sort and parse through those definitional issues (self-identification, church attendance habits, Bebington quadrilateral, etc.), it's still intriguing to look at a long 100-year history from the fundamentalist/modernist controversies through the Cold War and reactions to communism, the impact of the Reagan revolution, and then notable fracturing and realignments 6-7 years ago as well as 2020 to the present. And then specifically how that relates to political and voting behavior.
    Sure, agreed. But breakdowns merely by race tell us almost nothing anymore.

  2. #2362
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Summerville ,S.C.
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    How did he do that? The only big union news I've seen recently is the rail strike strike. And, as you say, Dems got that sick leave bill passed w/ 200+ Republicans voting against.
    I'll have to find it .its hidden jn a article .should have took a picture of the flyer but it's not my fight.
    I didn't think much of it at the time.
    They cant strike do to the master contract .I don't believe it was to that degree .
    If they went on strike locally with out the blessing of the main union .the violation of the contract would make the ila take over the local union and go back to work.
    But it could have hurt work on a local level pushing work to other local ports. They were agitated enough for it to travel to Charleston. Probably wanted support from our local

    As long as the head union guys money isn't effected they wouldn't do much on a national level.
    He warnock had critized a few shipping lines .
    Various practices ect.
    They are taking the excess work from the west coast . Which will hurt thier labor
    Longterm.
    You have to hire to keep up .when the excess is caught up your left with to many employees. It's going to hurt.


    We have subsequently decided if your not a regular call of port we won't take the excess work. We will gladly take any line that wants to call our port on a regular basis making our work stable longterm.

    The rail strike is another animal.
    All of thier problems could/should have been Solved at the collective bargaining
    Table .

    When I find the article I'll post it.
    Bit off more work than I can handle.
    I have been helping feeding the local high school football team all week.

    Lunch lady's are under paid .
    Really under paid.
       

  3. #2363
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    Sure, agreed. But breakdowns merely by race tell us almost nothing anymore.
    I somewhat agree. I think zip code (another way of saying urban/suburban/rural) is a far more illustrative breakdown of our voting patterns now. We have basically become a nation of big cities versus rural areas. One side gets 70%+ of the vote in one and the other gets 70%+ of the vote in the other. It is not healthy for our democracy that we sort ourselves so much by party that most die-hard Democrats barely know anyone who is a die-hard Republican any more and vice-versa.
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  4. #2364
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
    Truth right here. Given the strangehold the Democrats had on state and local politics in NC for close to 140 years, if you wanted a political future in NC you had to be a democrat. If you wanted a say in who won, you had to vote in the Democratic primary. There was a time when a Democrat in NC could be as (or even more) conservative as a Republican in CA.
    Party affiliation meant something different then.

  5. #2365
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St. Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Socially conservative but more pro-worker, no? Even Dixiecrats were pro-union I think, but I may be wrong. History isn’t my strong suit.
    I don't agree. So-called "Dixiecrats" meant one thing, and one thing only.

  6. #2366
    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin View Post
    I don't agree. So-called "Dixiecrats" meant one thing, and one thing only.
    Strom Thurmond, the father of the Dixiecrats, was labor-friendly and a segregationist. At the end and after switching parties, he was anti-union and pro Martin Luther King, Jr. day.

  7. #2367
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    The South was heavily anti union back in those days, not that things have changed much...obviously there's a reason why so many new auto plants (foreign and domestic based) chose to locate there...https://uniontrack.com/blog/labor-american-south

  8. #2368
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    The South was heavily anti union back in those days, not that things have changed much...obviously there's a reason why so many new auto plants (foreign and domestic based) chose to locate there...https://uniontrack.com/blog/labor-american-south
    Was curious and found this article from 2012:
    https://www.motortrend.com/news/the-15-top-producing-american-car-plants-151801/

    All the top 15 are in red states except for GM and Ford having one each in the Detroit area and surprising to me a Ford plant in Chicago. Michigan, Ohio and Indiana seem to always be big historically as it relates to the automobile supply chain.
       

  9. #2369
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    do any of our Georgians or others have an idea how quickly votes can be counted on Tuesday? Any of those idiotic requirements to wait 10 days for people living under the clay soil to mail in their ballots? Or can they count ballots once the polls close (like normal people).

  10. #2370
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    do any of our Georgians or others have an idea how quickly votes can be counted on Tuesday? Any of those idiotic requirements to wait 10 days for people living under the clay soil to mail in their ballots? Or can they count ballots once the polls close (like normal people).
    Normal people count the early voting and mail-in ballots as they arrive.
    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan

  11. #2371
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    The latest this morning from Trump is sure to help Herschel in Georgia:

    "So, with the revelation of MASSIVE & WIDESPREAD FRAUD & DECEPTION in working closely with Big Tech Companies, the DNC, & the Democrat Party, do you throw the Presidential Election Results of 2020 OUT and declare the RIGHTFUL WINNER, or do you have a NEW ELECTION? A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution"
    Yep, time for the Constitution to go.

    Now that the Senate is not up for grabs, I wonder if mainstream Rs in Georgia might vote for Warnock (instead of just staying home) in an attempt to repudiate Trump. They can't want this to be the message for the next 2 years. I don't think it will be anything like 60-40, but even a 53-47 Warnock win would send a message. Of course, in today's world, that message would quickly be drowned out.

    Any Georgians here with R friends? What are they saying?
    Last edited by dudog84; 12-03-2022 at 02:08 PM.
    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan

  12. #2372
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    The latest this morning from Trump is sure to help Herschel in Georgia:



    Yep, time for the Constitution to go.
    It's sad to watch a great thinker slow down and deteriorate in their later years. That's unrelated to the post you just made. But it's sad just the same.
       

  13. #2373
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Sea Island, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Now that the Senate is not up for grabs, I wonder if mainstream Rs in Georgia might vote for Warnock (instead of just staying home) in an attempt to repudiate Trump. They can't want this to be the message for the next 2 years. I don't think it will be anything like 60-40, but even a 53-47 Warnock win would send a message. Of course, in today's world, that message would quickly be drowned out.

    Any Georgians here with R friends? What are they saying?
    I have lots of R friends here in southern Georgia. I suspect most will vote for Herschel, but it isn’t because they are “Trumpers”. In fact, most would be insulted by that label. It is more because they do not want to vote for the current administration.

    Warnock is outspending Walker by a lot on TV ads here, and people are sick of them. It seems that 2 out of every 3 ads are Warnock ads, and they are all negative (of course, there is a lot of material there). The non-Warnock ads are for medications. Every so often there is a Walker ad. Interestingly, we have been receiving many more ads for Walker through the US mail. Maybe that is due to limited financial resources.

    Regardless, I cannot imagine that Walker will win, or even get very close.

  14. #2374
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    Now that the Senate is not up for grabs, I wonder if mainstream Rs in Georgia might vote for Warnock (instead of just staying home) in an attempt to repudiate Trump. They can't want this to be the message for the next 2 years.
    Not entirely sure the MAGAs aren’t the R mainstream. What %age of the party is it? Not sure anyone really knows but it’s unquestionably the loudest faction, and rather than being mollified or tempered by the midterm results, it appears the opposite is true.
       

  15. #2375
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Not entirely sure the MAGAs aren’t the R mainstream. What %age of the party is it? Not sure anyone really knows but it’s unquestionably the loudest faction, and rather than being mollified or tempered by the midterm results, it appears the opposite is true.
    I think this is correct in the current moment.
       

  16. #2376
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    I think this is correct in the current moment.
    yeah, there's one pretty large stream and a bunch of tiny brooks right now.

  17. #2377
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Not entirely sure the MAGAs aren’t the R mainstream. What %age of the party is it? Not sure anyone really knows but it’s unquestionably the loudest faction, and rather than being mollified or tempered by the midterm results, it appears the opposite is true.
    OK, you're right. But say 20% are old-school and feel like Tooold's friends. Are they just going to wait until Trump dies? Well, I guess they're never going to get their party back, even then. But don't they want to make a last stand? I still believe that every day thousands turn 18 who are permanently lost to the Rs.
    Bad officials are elected by good citizens who do not vote. - George Jean Nathan

  18. #2378
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    OK, you're right. But say 20% are old-school and feel like Tooold's friends. Are they just going to wait until Trump dies? Well, I guess they're never going to get their party back, even then. But don't they want to make a last stand? I still believe that every day thousands turn 18 who are permanently lost to the Rs.
    But they can win elections for the next 10-15 years without changing a thing because the Senate and House have a rural bias and they have been benefiting from the Electoral College bias (this isn't always true...Obama had an EC bias benefit in 2012). There. Is. No. Desire. To. Change.
       

  19. #2379
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    OK, you're right. But say 20% are old-school and feel like Tooold's friends. Are they just going to wait until Trump dies? Well, I guess they're never going to get their party back, even then. But don't they want to make a last stand? I still believe that every day thousands turn 18 who are permanently lost to the Rs.
    There’s little doubt in my mind that the current trajectory of the GOP is suicide in the long term, for exactly the reasons you state. I honestly don’t think they see it. Maybe some politicians and pundits do, but a large chunk of “the base” is living in a different reality from everyone else. If you insulate yourself in a bubble of like-minded thinking, it’s not hard to imagine that your views are in the majority. That’s true of any ideology or worldview, of course, but it’s been taken to another level by people in power straight-up denying reality.

  20. #2380
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    There’s little doubt in my mind that the current trajectory of the GOP is suicide in the long term, for exactly the reasons you state. I honestly don’t think they see it. Maybe some politicians and pundits do, but a large chunk of “the base” is living in a different reality from everyone else. If you insulate yourself in a bubble of like-minded thinking, it’s not hard to imagine that your views are in the majority. That’s true of any ideology or worldview, of course, but it’s been taken to another level by people in power straight-up denying reality.
    Part of the crowd has given up being in the majority. They only want to be in power.
       

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