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Thread: 2023 NBA Draft

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Yeah I kinda agree. Duke's identity with recruits is that we're the program that gets them to the league right away. Sure, we win too, and all the other benefits of being Duke, but the league is the main thing. If that advantage is removed, then the separation between us and some other programs, in the minds of these young guys, is likely to diminish.
    Exactly. Either we will stop landing one-and-done talent and thus stop being viewed as a path to get to the League quickly, or we will continue to land the top talent going to college and those guys will continue to want to leave as early as possible.

    In the first scenario, we better hope Scheyer is a heck of a coach and not just a recruiter because we would no longer have the talent advantage that has carried us in recent years. In the second, it looks a lot like what we currently have but with maybe a tad less talent and a tad more continuity.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    anyone notice that our guy Adam Silver says he wants to lower the NBA eligible age to 18 from 19 and hopes to work on that in the next CBA? If that happens, we're unlikely to see the very top guys in high school ever make it to college ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tappan Zee Devil View Post
    In reality, I think that may be a good thing for coolege ball (or at least schools like Duke), since it will allow some continuity to be built.
    Going after OAD talent when they might go straight to the pros? I don't envy Jon that recruiting headache! Half a class doesn't show up?

    -jk

  3. #23
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    It's from October 2020, but still interesting to see Victor Wembanyama, then 16 years old, match up against shorter Frenchman Rudy Gobert in a 2-on-2 workout:



    Mon dieu. Adam Spinella has a more recent look at Wembanyama, the first prospect profiled in his 2023 Draft series.

    "His length combined with his athleticism allows him to throw down some of the goofiest looking dunks ever."

  4. #24
    Jonathan Wasserman of Bleacher Report has his first mock draft for 2023 up.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tor-wembanyama

    4. Dariq Whitehead
    12. Dereck Lively
    17. Kyle Filipowski

    This seems to track with other mock drafts I've seen. Whitehead is the guy getting lottery buzz. Lively slots into the late lottery as a lob finisher and rim protector with the possibility of having pick-and-pop potential. Filipowski offers a lot of interest in his offense to go along with questions about his defense.

    Watching those three, along with Roach, Mitchell, and Proctor, throughout the season will be interesting to see who rises and if any fall.

  5. #25
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    I can't really vouch for Hoop Intellect yet, but he did take the time to put together an early look at the 2023 draft, listing his top 45 picks.



    These are the Duke and ACC players he included:

    4. Dariq Whitehead
    13. Dereck Lively
    24. Tyrese Proctor
    28. Kyle Filipowski

    16. Baba Miller, Florida State
    17. Terquavion Smith, NC State
    31. Judah Mintz, Syracuse
    32. JJ Starling, Notre Dame

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    I can't really vouch for Hoop Intellect yet, but he did take the time to put together an early look at the 2023 draft, listing his top 45 picks.



    These are the Duke and ACC players he included:

    4. Dariq Whitehead
    13. Dereck Lively
    24. Tyrese Proctor
    28. Kyle Filipowski

    16. Baba Miller, Florida State
    17. Terquavion Smith, NC State
    31. Judah Mintz, Syracuse
    32. JJ Starling, Notre Dame
    Interesting to see Proctor crack a mock draft. To me, if Proctor ends up a OAD that means we've likely had a very successful season (unless he makes a misinformed decision, which we know happens), because he could be the missing piece on the wing. I think an ideal scenario for this Duke season is that Grandison starts at the beginning of the year as Proctor acclimates, but somewhere around midway through the year Grandison shifts to being a sixth man because Proctor just can't be kept off the court. Fingers crossed.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Interesting to see Proctor crack a mock draft. To me, if Proctor ends up a OAD that means we've likely had a very successful season (unless he makes a misinformed decision, which we know happens), because he could be the missing piece on the wing. I think an ideal scenario for this Duke season is that Grandison starts at the beginning of the year as Proctor acclimates, but somewhere around midway through the year Grandison shifts to being a sixth man because Proctor just can't be kept off the court. Fingers crossed.
    I'm not too surprised. Proctor is a big guard with solid athleticism who can shoot. That's enough to get first round interest.

    As for the starting line up evolution, I'm not so sure. Grandison is a proven 3-and-D commodity. With Grandison, Whitehead, and Lively, you have 3 above-average-or-better defenders (and maybe even a lot better than above-average). Roach should be more consistent on D (and he was really good defensively at the end of the season). Flip/Mitchell may be a weakness, but having 4 competent defenders goes a long way. I'm not saying Proctor isn't good defensively (I have no idea), but that very well may be a weakness. I'd love him as a high-octane scorer off the bench.

    To me, this teams identity can be defense. Which is strange, cus that's not really the calling card of an OAD Duke team (under K). But the talent is there to be great at D.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    I'm not too surprised. Proctor is a big guard with solid athleticism who can shoot. That's enough to get first round interest.

    As for the starting line up evolution, I'm not so sure. Grandison is a proven 3-and-D commodity. With Grandison, Whitehead, and Lively, you have 3 above-average-or-better defenders (and maybe even a lot better than above-average). Roach should be more consistent on D (and he was really good defensively at the end of the season). Flip/Mitchell may be a weakness, but having 4 competent defenders goes a long way. I'm not saying Proctor isn't good defensively (I have no idea), but that very well may be a weakness. I'd love him as a high-octane scorer off the bench.

    To me, this teams identity can be defense. Which is strange, cus that's not really the calling card of an OAD Duke team (under K). But the talent is there to be great at D.
    From what I saw from clips from the FIBA Asia Cup as well as some of his Australia games, Proctor certainly has the potential to be, at minimum, an above average defender. While highlights, there are multiple bits in most of his videos that showcase him using his length to get into passing lanes and start fast breaks. What's less appreciable from that available footage is how he's faring in pick and roll, one-on-one drives to the hoop, etc. But I'm higher on his defensive ceiling than I am on the typical incoming freshman guard.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    From what I saw from clips from the FIBA Asia Cup as well as some of his Australia games, Proctor certainly has the potential to be, at minimum, an above average defender. While highlights, there are multiple bits in most of his videos that showcase him using his length to get into passing lanes and start fast breaks. What's less appreciable from that available footage is how he's faring in pick and roll, one-on-one drives to the hoop, etc. But I'm higher on his defensive ceiling than I am on the typical incoming freshman guard.
    Hope you're right, but I'll reserve judgment until late November.

    There are fairly large unknowns surrounding Proctor, Flip, and Mitchell on D. They suffer from being freshman and not having a great understanding of team defense. But all three do have tools to be above average defenders (unlike, say, Matthew Hurt. Who was never going to be even an average defender).

    I'm confident we won't have a Jabari-led defensive team. Then again, I'm not so sure how much better we'll be than last year, where we had 2 elite defenders and 2 average (or better defenders) in the starting line up.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Interesting to see Proctor crack a mock draft. To me, if Proctor ends up a OAD that means we've likely had a very successful season (unless he makes a misinformed decision, which we know happens), because he could be the missing piece on the wing. I think an ideal scenario for this Duke season is that Grandison starts at the beginning of the year as Proctor acclimates, but somewhere around midway through the year Grandison shifts to being a sixth man because Proctor just can't be kept off the court. Fingers crossed.
    It is hard to see that happening. Grandison is so experienced and will likely be the best defensive player Duke has on the wing, and is a 40% three point shooter. Hard to keep that guy off the court. Proctor is likely an X factor off the bench. Much depends on who is better on D. We shall see.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Hope you're right, but I'll reserve judgment until late November.

    There are fairly large unknowns surrounding Proctor, Flip, and Mitchell on D. They suffer from being freshman and not having a great understanding of team defense. But all three do have tools to be above average defenders (unlike, say, Matthew Hurt. Who was never going to be even an average defender).

    I'm confident we won't have a Jabari-led defensive team. Then again, I'm not so sure how much better we'll be than last year, where we had 2 elite defenders and 2 average (or better defenders) in the starting line up.
    I'm with you here. Even though we had two elite defenders and two average defenders there were times the team defense wasn't good. AJ was not a good defender and that hurt the man2man. I hope we don't have a player in the rotation that was that bad at defending.

    GoDuke!

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Hope you're right, but I'll reserve judgment until late November.

    There are fairly large unknowns surrounding Proctor, Flip, and Mitchell on D. They suffer from being freshman and not having a great understanding of team defense. But all three do have tools to be above average defenders (unlike, say, Matthew Hurt. Who was never going to be even an average defender).

    I'm confident we won't have a Jabari-led defensive team. Then again, I'm not so sure how much better we'll be than last year, where we had 2 elite defenders and 2 average (or better defenders) in the starting line up.
    This is why one may choose to hope for a defense that does not overplay too much, and rely on numerous rotations thereafter, because it's just tough for an ultra young team to master this kind of defense.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jv001 View Post
    I'm with you here. Even though we had two elite defenders and two average defenders there were times the team defense wasn't good. AJ was not a good defender and that hurt the man2man. I hope we don't have a player in the rotation that was that bad at defending.

    GoDuke!
    Haha. I forgot about AJ. I thought Paolo was our poor defender. Nope. It was AJ "Turnstyle" Griffin.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Haha. I forgot about AJ. I thought Paolo was our poor defender. Nope. It was AJ "Turnstyle" Griffin.
    I thought Paolo played much better defense in the tournaments last season. It looked like he was in cruise control during the regular season. Agree on AJ's nickname.

    GoDuke!

  15. #35
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    I think Proctor's role may depend at least somewhat on the development of Whitehead as a ball dominant creator. If he and Roach are both guys who need the ball in their hands, then having Proctor out there with them probably makes less sense. In that case, Grandison is an ideal running mate on the wing with Proctor coming in to spell Roach and/or Whitehead, thereby ensuring Duke always has multiple creators on the floor at the same time (Flip is part of this equation too, I think).
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Hope you're right, but I'll reserve judgment until late November.

    There are fairly large unknowns surrounding Proctor, Flip, and Mitchell on D. They suffer from being freshman and not having a great understanding of team defense. But all three do have tools to be above average defenders (unlike, say, Matthew Hurt. Who was never going to be even an average defender).

    I'm confident we won't have a Jabari-led defensive team. Then again, I'm not so sure how much better we'll be than last year, where we had 2 elite defenders and 2 average (or better defenders) in the starting line up.
    I think you hit the nail on the head here, with tools being the key word. Recently experience has certainly indicated that freshmen develop more slowly defensively than offensively unless that was their calling card in high school. But we also know that recruiting profiles tend to focus more on offense than defense because that's more interesting to the average fan. With that in mind, I've started adjusting my expectations to looking for potential "red flags" as it pertains to defense: Were incoming freshmen noted as defensive liabilities or showing a lack of defensive effort in high school? Do they have the size/athleticism to, theoretically, defend effectively? Will they be adjusting to a new position at the college level?

    Proctor doesn't have any red flags from what I can see, and I have noticed what seems to be a higher than usual number of defensive plays in his highlight packages. Mitchell appears to be a solid athlete with the tools to be a good defender, but the unknown is whether he can defend the 3 or 4 (or neither, or both) at the college level. Similarly, Flip's above average agility for a guy his size, as indicated by his ability to attack the rim from the perimeter and run the floor in transition, indicates that he has the footspeed to defend, even if he isn't an explosive run and jump athlete. That would make him a passable defender of college 5s, and could make him above-average in the pick and roll. But does that foot speed translate from offense to defense? Is his lack of rim protection problematic? Is he a 4 or a 5? That's where the most questions lie for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    It is hard to see that happening. Grandison is so experienced and will likely be the best defensive player Duke has on the wing, and is a 40% three point shooter. Hard to keep that guy off the court. Proctor is likely an X factor off the bench. Much depends on who is better on D. We shall see.
    I, too, am very excited about Grandison. But I think the other factor here is fit: can Dariq create enough with the ball in his hands to be more of a 2 than a 3? Early indications from the scrimmage point to yes, and it seems like the staff is challenging him to do that. I'm sure he's motivated to do that too, as if he's an NBA 2 his value increases, as he would have plus size as a 2 man (he'd just need to show consistent enough of a 3 point jumper). From the 4 years of Grandison that we have on film, he doesn't appear to be someone who will create his own shot. If we find we need more shot creation, and less perimeter shooting, as the season goes on, that could be how Proctor seizes more of a role.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I think Proctor's role may depend at least somewhat on the development of Whitehead as a ball dominant creator. If he and Roach are both guys who need the ball in their hands, then having Proctor out there with them probably makes less sense. In that case, Grandison is an ideal running mate on the wing with Proctor coming in to spell Roach and/or Whitehead, thereby ensuring Duke always has multiple creators on the floor at the same time (Flip is part of this equation too, I think).
    I guess my paragraph above is just a rephrasing of Jason's excellent post
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    I think you hit the nail on the head here, with tools being the key word. Recently experience has certainly indicated that freshmen develop more slowly defensively than offensively unless that was their calling card in high school. But we also know that recruiting profiles tend to focus more on offense than defense because that's more interesting to the average fan. With that in mind, I've started adjusting my expectations to looking for potential "red flags" as it pertains to defense: Were incoming freshmen noted as defensive liabilities or showing a lack of defensive effort in high school? Do they have the size/athleticism to, theoretically, defend effectively? Will they be adjusting to a new position at the college level?

    Proctor doesn't have any red flags from what I can see, and I have noticed what seems to be a higher than usual number of defensive plays in his highlight packages. Mitchell appears to be a solid athlete with the tools to be a good defender, but the unknown is whether he can defend the 3 or 4 (or neither, or both) at the college level. Similarly, Flip's above average agility for a guy his size, as indicated by his ability to attack the rim from the perimeter and run the floor in transition, indicates that he has the footspeed to defend, even if he isn't an explosive run and jump athlete. That would make him a passable defender of college 5s, and could make him above-average in the pick and roll. But does that foot speed translate from offense to defense? Is his lack of rim protection problematic? Is he a 4 or a 5? That's where the most questions lie for me.



    I, too, am very excited about Grandison. But I think the other factor here is fit: can Dariq create enough with the ball in his hands to be more of a 2 than a 3? Early indications from the scrimmage point to yes, and it seems like the staff is challenging him to do that. I'm sure he's motivated to do that too, as if he's an NBA 2 his value increases, as he would have plus size as a 2 man (he'd just need to show consistent enough of a 3 point jumper). From the 4 years of Grandison that we have on film, he doesn't appear to be someone who will create his own shot. If we find we need more shot creation, and less perimeter shooting, as the season goes on, that could be how Proctor seizes more of a role.



    I guess my paragraph above is just a rephrasing of Jason's excellent post

    I think the thing with Proctor that is different is him playing overseas instead of the US. International Basketball is more heavily team focused and focused on fundementals. So it think the proctor from have the usual freshman growing pains and will be more ready to compete on D ( especially coming off fiba play). I look back to Franz wagner who came in a a frosh and played a huge role and was good on D after playing professionally overseas.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbolden1 View Post
    I think the thing with Proctor that is different is him playing overseas instead of the US. International Basketball is more heavily team focused and focused on fundementals. So it think the proctor from have the usual freshman growing pains and will be more ready to compete on D ( especially coming off fiba play). I look back to Franz wagner who came in a a frosh and played a huge role and was good on D after playing professionally overseas.
    Must... not... derail... thread... with... more... posts... about... Michigan's... Franz... Wagner...

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  19. #39
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    Adam Spinella has a Way Too Early look at the lottery picks (#1-14) of the 2023 NBA Draft:



    He has Dariq Whitehead going #3 and Dereck Lively at #8.

    He also has the Thompson Twins falling out of the Top Ten, which hasn't happened since 1985, right after "King for a Day" peaked at #8 on the Billboard U.S. Hot 100 charts.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Adam Spinella has a Way Too Early look at the lottery picks (#1-14) of the 2023 NBA Draft...
    Adam Spinella has made a follow up video that does the whole 2023 NBA Draft, picks 1-60.



    The lottery picks (including #3 Dariq Whitehead and #8 Dereck Lively) stay the same. Other ACC selections:

    11. Baba Miller, FSU
    17. Terquavion Smith, NCSU
    20. Tyrese Proctor, Duke
    25. Judah Mintz, Syracuse
    28. Kyle Filipowski, Duke
    42. Caleb Love, UNC

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