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Thread: 2023 NBA Draft

  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    . He said everyone is over Calipari.
    .
    You can look at Rupp Rafters to figure that out.

  2. #682
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    Well

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I mean, they get everyone back except their best offensive player from a team that finished 26th at Kenpom and went 9-9 from the middle of January until the end of the season. They do have a nice recruiting class but not one filled with guys who look to be immediate starters. Yes, they are good, but I don't think they look at good as Kansas, Duke, and Purdue. A solid top 10 team, for sure, but not quite sure they are in the top 5.
    They lost only one of their top six players, who was their leading scorer, but not much of a defender. They have a recruit -- Xavier Booker, who is ranked similarly to our best incoming freshmen. If Booker had come to Duke (and reports are that Duke tried to get in late on Booker, but was not successful), we'd be debating whether or not Booker would be earning starter's minutes at the 5. And one of the guards MSU is bringing in looked really good in one of the All-Star games, according to reports here.

    Seth Davis (I know, I know, he's not very good) has them at #4. Jeff Goodman has them at #3. I'm not saying MSU is the best team, but I like their chances to go far much more than Purdue's.

  3. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    They lost only one of their top six players, who was their leading scorer, but not much of a defender. They have a recruit -- Xavier Booker, who is ranked similarly to our best incoming freshmen. If Booker had come to Duke (and reports are that Duke tried to get in late on Booker, but was not successful), we'd be debating whether or not Booker would be earning starter's minutes at the 5. And one of the guards MSU is bringing in looked really good in one of the All-Star games, according to reports here.

    Seth Davis (I know, I know, he's not very good) has them at #4. Jeff Goodman has them at #3. I'm not saying MSU is the best team, but I like their chances to go far much more than Purdue's.
    To clarify re: the bolded, my understanding was that Duke kicked the tires on Booker, but quickly prioritized JP Estrella over him. There was then a period of a few weeks where it seemed like Estrella to Duke was a foregone conclusion, followed by a sudden shift and him ending up at Tennessee. Given what we know now, it's likely that this was around the time Duke was feeling more confident in the possible combo of Kyle/Ryan/Christian at the 5 for this season, making an instant-impact center less of a priority (and providing said center less potential immediate playing time).

    That aside, I unfortunately agree with you that MSU should be very good next year (blech), but I also agree with Jason that they're likely in a tier below us and Kansas (I would've included UConn in that top tier had they gotten better NBA draft news). If Sparty's returning guards take a step forward and/or Booker plays like a lottery pick, they could easily ascend to the top tier, but it's just as likely that those experienced guards have maxed out and/or Booker struggles as a freshman like most bigs do.

    I think Sparty is in the "next tier" below us and Kansas, alongside Marquette, UConn, Purdue, and probably a few others I can't think of off the top of my head. I just can't put Purdue in the top tier given what we saw to end the year, but they very easily could follow Virginia's route to a National Title. That said, in order to take that step their rising sophomore guards are going to have to take a big step forward so that they aren't a one-dimensional team reliant on Edey, because we saw that with tape teams could guard against that.
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  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    NBA.com: "Under NCAA rules, in order to retain college basketball eligibility, college players who have entered NBA Draft 2023 must withdraw by Wednesday, May 31."

    The following lists will need updating by then...
    I diligently updated the lists of who is staying and going as the reports came in, but they became both unwieldy and hopelessly incomplete. Based on a few things -- mainly NIL money and the perceived weakness of next year's NBA Draft -- there was a mass exodus of players withdrawing from the draft and coming back to school before Wednesday's deadline. Indeed, the NBA posted a list of 108 such players on Thursday.

    Here are a couple of ACC-specific lists of who's returning and who's gone. These are limited to early entry players who were testing the waters (so it won't include players out of eligibility, like Leaky Black or Jordan Miller, nor those who were all in on the draft when they declared, like Dereck Lively or Dariq Whitehead). Again, stats in parentheses are PTS/REB/AST from the 2022-2023 season.

    Withdrawing from the draft and returning to the ACC

    Reece Beekman, Virginia (9.5/3.0/5.3)
    Joe Girard, Clemson (16.4/2.8/3.0 at Syracuse)
    PJ Hall, Clemson (15.3/5.7/1.0)
    Blake Hinson, Pittsburgh (15.3/6.0/1.2)
    Miles Kelly, Georgia Tech (14.4/3.4/1.3)
    Judah Mintz, Syracuse (16.3/2.3/4.6)
    Casey Morsell, NC State (11.8/4.4/0.9)
    Norchad Omier, Miami (13.1/10.0/1.3)
    Nijel Pack, Miami (13.6/2.7/2.3)
    Quinten Post, Boston College (15.1/5.6/1.5)
    Jeremy Roach, Duke (13.6/2.5/3.1)
    Cormac Ryan, North Carolina (12.3/4.0/2.5 at Notre Dame)

    Staying in the draft or otherwise going pro -- formerly of the ACC

    Grant Basile, Virginia Tech (16.4/5.4/1.7) -- signed with pro team in Italy
    Armaan Franklin, Virginia (12.4/4.1/1.4)
    Bobi Klintman, Wake Forest (5.3/4.5/0.8)

    The NBA's original early entry list of 242 players (194 collegians and 48 internationals) didn't have that many ACC players that were all in. Aside from Lively and Whitehead, there's just Terquavion Smith and Isaiah Wong. At least for this year, the ACC lost far more players to graduation and the transfer portal.

  5. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    The NBA's original early entry list of 242 players (194 collegians and 48 internationals) didn't have that many ACC players that were all in. Aside from Lively and Whitehead, there's just Terquavion Smith and Isaiah Wong. At least for this year, the ACC lost far more players to graduation and the transfer portal.
    So youíre saying the 6th/7th best conference in college basketball didnít have a ton of NBA ready talent. That checks out.
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  6. #686
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I was at a conference for work recently and met with a company out of Lexington. He literally started the meeting going on about Calipari and how all the UK guys are thriving in the NBA playoffs but they have not done anything in college. He said everyone is over Calipari.

    I asked if Calipari was on the hot seat for this season, to which he said he's been on the hot seat and it's Final Four or fired. I was surprised to hear that to be honest.
    Most of the UK guys who have thrived in the NBA playoffs were in fact very good or better when at Kentucky. Davis, Booker, Bam, Randle, Fox and Maxey for example. Not very many guys who underperformed at UK have blossomed once they've gotten to the league.

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post
    Most of the UK guys who have thrived in the NBA playoffs were in fact very good or better when at Kentucky. Davis, Booker, Bam, Randle, Fox and Maxey for example. Not very many guys who underperformed at UK have blossomed once they've gotten to the league.
    A UK fan would burn holes in you with their eyes while muttering "Where Are The Banners, Tommy!?" over and over.

  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    UK takes a big hit, with Tshiebwe staying in the draft, as are two other UK players. None are expected to be first round picks and they all may go undrafted.

    https://theathletic.com/4568638/2023...ba-draft-2023/ (paywall, unfortunately)
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Kentucky's Chris Livingston is staying in the draft according to Jon Rothstein.

    The UK team is looking rather thin at the moment. There are the 5 incoming freshmen and two reserve sophomores-to-be in C Ugonna Onyenso and G Adou Theiro. It's a throwback roster of sorts for Coach Cal. I wonder who he can reel in from the transfer portal to provide depth in the frontcourt. They have none.
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I was at a conference for work recently and met with a company out of Lexington. He literally started the meeting going on about Calipari and how all the UK guys are thriving in the NBA playoffs but they have not done anything in college. He said everyone is over Calipari.

    I asked if Calipari was on the hot seat for this season, to which he said he's been on the hot seat and it's Final Four or fired. I was surprised to hear that to be honest.
    Players on the 2022-2023 Kentucky roster who left:

    Daimion Collins, CJ Fredrick, Lance Ware, Sahvir Wheeler (transfer portal)
    Chris Livingston, Jacob Toppin, Oscar Tshiebwe, Cason Wallace (NBA draft)

    Antonio Reeves withdrew from the draft to return to school, which may be Kentucky or somewhere else by grad transfer.

    After Wednesday's draft withdrawal deadline, John Calipari drafted a long tweet Thursday morning. It's worth reading; I'm just quoting the first paragraph.

    I woke up this morning thinking about our team now that the NBA deadline has passed. We support all of our players as they weigh their options and pursue their dreams and itís my job to make sure these kids are making informed decisions. It may not be what you think or I think - but itís informed. But that also makes it hard to move until you really know what your roster is going to be. Weíve prepared for all scenarios and now we can move forward.
    Translation: I slept just fine. Kidding, kind of. He goes on to say that the behind-the-scenes maneuvers are kept private, so a lot of misinformation spreads. (Which is to be expected when you combine the most rabid college hoops fanbase with a program that added no transfers despite having what would seem to be generalized admissions standards and a near-unlimited supply of NIL opportunities.) He concludes with some flowery rah-rah prose about getting the right kind of players to make the fans proud, and how he's not done yet.

  9. #689
    scottdude8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Players on the 2022-2023 Kentucky roster who left:

    Daimion Collins, CJ Fredrick, Lance Ware, Sahvir Wheeler (transfer portal)
    Chris Livingston, Jacob Toppin, Oscar Tshiebwe, Cason Wallace (NBA draft)

    Antonio Reeves withdrew from the draft to return to school, which may be Kentucky or somewhere else by grad transfer.

    After Wednesday's draft withdrawal deadline, John Calipari drafted a long tweet Thursday morning. It's worth reading; I'm just quoting the first paragraph.

    Translation: I slept just fine. Kidding, kind of. He goes on to say that the behind-the-scenes maneuvers are kept private, so a lot of misinformation spreads. (Which is to be expected when you combine the most rabid college hoops fanbase with a program that added no transfers despite having what would seem to be generalized admissions standards and a near-unlimited supply of NIL opportunities.) He concludes with some flowery rah-rah prose about getting the right kind of players to make the fans proud, and how he's not done yet.
    For someone who's been in the spotlight for a long time, Calipari has always been oddly defensive and reactionary when it comes to fan criticism. This seems like a preemptive defense against what I imagine would be the line of questioning he'd get during his first media availability this year.

    Whenever he's done something like that, this tweet being one of the less egregious examples, I've always wondered, "How insane would the media go if Coach K said something like this?" If Coach K came out and started making excuses for his roster in June based on NBA Draft departures, it'd be the first story Stephen A. Smith would scream about on First Take the next morning. This will probably go unnoticed outside the Kentucky bubble. Just goes to show who the real power brand in college basketball is...
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  10. #690
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    A UK fan would burn holes in you with their eyes while muttering "Where Are The Banners, Tommy!?" over and over.
    Haha. And I would ask them to point me to the banners that other programs have won with rosters as freshman-heavy as those UK has had under Calipari for the last 10 -15 years.

  11. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    I posted about Adam Spinella back in August. He's been doing mock draft videos (picks #1-60, plus the top 10 returning players for the 2023-2024 season) regularly as the season progresses, and I thought I would keep track of where he's been slotting the Duke players each time for the 2023 NBA Draft.
    Days after the draft withdrawal deadline, Spinella has a new mock draft video, and he says any changes reflect the players' pro day workouts and team workouts. This might explain why Dereck Lively II moves way up, going to the Dallas Mavericks with the #10 pick. Dariq Whitehead slips a few spots to the Golden State Warriors at #19, but that's still higher than most other mocks.



    Date of Video Whitehead Lively Proctor Filipowski Mitchell
    08/16/22 #3 #8 #20 #28 ---
    10/31/22 #4 #10 #17 #30 ---
    11/29/22 #10 #13 #23 #19 Return #9
    12/29/22 #13 #23 #30 #27 Return #9
    01/25/23 #13 #23 #41 #22 Return #9
    02/16/23 #17 #25 Return #4 #23 ---
    02/28/23 #18 #23 Return #4 #25 Return #10
    03/20/23 #18 #23 Return #1 #33 Return #10
    04/03/23 #23 #18 Return #1 #34 Return #10
    04/19/23 #22 #12 Return #1 Return #3 Return #10
    05/03/23 #22 #20 Return #1 Return #3 Return #8
    05/17/23 #16 #20 Return #1 Return #3 Return #8
    06/03/23 #19 #10 Return #1 Return #3 ---

    I forgot that the withdrawal deadline would affect the Top 10 list of returning players. Now back at college, Adem Bona (UCLA), Judah Mintz (Syracuse), and Trey Alexander (Creighton) knocked Mark Mitchell off the list.

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