Ways to Save ACC / Get ND In?

[Acymetric]

Not trying to be argumentative but ahead of the curve relative to ACC football standards. I do recall Cutcliffe discussing the 100-yard practice field, he must have been referring to an outside field. I should have been more precise.

Pre-Cut and when he first arrived, we didn't have a full length 120 yard practice field anywhere. When we did all the renovations one of the first things done was the construction of Pascal Field House, which contained a full-length indoor practice field. That was 2011. We may also have done something to lengthen the outdoor field, I can't recall.

For reference Clemson got their indoor field about 2 years later. Duke and GT were the first in 2011. These were major, nationally competitive upgrades. Not just table stakes at the time, we were ahead of the majority of the ACC and plenty of others nationally (of course now what we have has fallen back below that level).

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/co...-acc-post.html

Within the past year, Virginia, Clemson and Florida State have opened indoor facilities. Duke and Georgia Tech debuted their buildings in 2011.

[TKG]

that way more their own irrationality than the market's.

if the market on junk mbs and cds remained irrational, they'd still be in business

Oh, all right! 😂

[TKG]

Pre-Cut and when he first arrived, we didn't have a full length 120 yard practice field anywhere. When we did all the renovations one of the first things done was the construction of Pascal Field House, which contained a full-length indoor practice field. That was 2011. We may also have done something to lengthen the outdoor field, I can't recall.

For reference Clemson got their indoor field about 2 years later. Duke and GT were the first in 2011. These were major, nationally competitive upgrades. Not just table stakes at the time, we were ahead of the majority of the ACC and plenty of others nationally (of course now what we have has fallen back below that level).

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/co...-acc-post.html

Within the past year, Virginia, Clemson and Florida State have opened indoor facilities. Duke and Georgia Tech debuted their buildings in 2011

Thanks for the link. From habit I guess I just don’t think of us a trendsetters in football. I stand corrected.

[Acymetric]

Sorry, the broken quote tag there was my fault!

[duke2x]

I think people constantly underestimate what an existential matter independence is for members of the Notre Dame community. It defies reason. It is less exceptionalism than commitment issues. I think they now make slightly less money on their NBC contract than they would being a full participant in the ACC’s television contracts. Notre Dame is not going to join the ACC. Our appeal to them is solely that we allow them to remain independent in football while providing a home for their other sports.

Notre Dame has a standing offer to join the Big 10 and has given them a standing no. A huge television contract for the Big 10 is certainly tempting and, this juncture, might just be enough to make a difference. However, that has to balanced against Notre Dame’s historic animosity toward the Big 10.

The best chance I see to get Notre Dame to join the ACC is to internalize as much of Notre Dame’s independent schedule within the ACC. Playing traditional rivals and touring the country is one of the rationales for independence. Notre Dame’s current permanent partners are USC and Navy. Recently popular is Stanford. It does have grudges/rivalries with several Big 10 teams such as Michigan, but plays those teams on a rotating basis, not annually. Notre Dame already has a somewhat similar thing going with Boston College and Miami in the ACC. The Big 10 already internalized one of Notre Dame’s permanent rivals by adding USC. The ACC could look at adding Navy and Stanford. That would leave room in Notre Dame’s nonconference schedule for USC, another Big 10 or SEC team plus one or two easier opponents. That is a lot of gymnastics and I am not sure it would ultimately benefit the ACC’s bottom line by taking Notre Dame as package like that. However, that might be the best way to make it happen. But remember: Notre Dame is an independent. That is who they are. The only thing that can overcome this existential choice for certain is an existential threat such as becoming irrelevant or starved of resources.

I agree with a lot of your post. The only reason ND plays Stanford is the trip to California during the cold weather over Thanksgiving. The Big 10 added UCLA with the hope UCLA could replace Stanford even though it doesn't give ND Norcal exposure. I doubt that will be enough. ND ultimately wants to pick and choose all of its opponents and be given a playoff spot for doing so. It doesn't want to ever play 60% of the ACC, and it doesn't want to ever play 50% of the Big 10. That isn't how leagues work. If/when the Big 10/SEC leave the NCAA, they'll join that new league out of necessity but not before.

[budwom]

Yeah, debatable what ND does vis a vis the B1G, but there is zero chance they fully join the ACC, so the ACC is still going to be toast.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Every national talking head I have heard has taken for granted that the ACC will be sold for scraps. I don't hear anyone assuming the ACC can survive in anything close to its current incarnation.

[dukelifer]

Every national talking head I have heard has taken for granted that the ACC will be sold for scraps. I don't hear anyone assuming the ACC can survive in anything close to its current incarnation.

Just a matter of time. Probably 5 years. Duke may be on the outside looking in.

[LeadingEdge]

I think people constantly underestimate what an existential matter independence is for members of the Notre Dame community. It defies reason. It is less exceptionalism than commitment issues. I think they now make slightly less money on their NBC contract than they would being a full participant in the ACC’s television contracts. Notre Dame is not going to join the ACC. Our appeal to them is solely that we allow them to remain independent in football while providing a home for their other sports.

Notre Dame has a standing offer to join the Big 10 and has given them a standing no. A huge television contract for the Big 10 is certainly tempting and, this juncture, might just be enough to make a difference. However, that has to balanced against Notre Dame’s historic animosity toward the Big 10.

The best chance I see to get Notre Dame to join the ACC is to internalize as much of Notre Dame’s independent schedule within the ACC. Playing traditional rivals and touring the country is one of the rationales for independence. Notre Dame’s current permanent partners are USC and Navy. Recently popular is Stanford. It does have grudges/rivalries with several Big 10 teams such as Michigan, but plays those teams on a rotating basis, not annually. Notre Dame already has a somewhat similar thing going with Boston College and Miami in the ACC. The Big 10 already internalized one of Notre Dame’s permanent rivals by adding USC. The ACC could look at adding Navy and Stanford. That would leave room in Notre Dame’s nonconference schedule for USC, another Big 10 or SEC team plus one or two easier opponents. That is a lot of gymnastics and I am not sure it would ultimately benefit the ACC’s bottom line by taking Notre Dame as package like that. However, that might be the best way to make it happen. But remember: Notre Dame is an independent. That is who they are. The only thing that can overcome this existential choice for certain is an existential threat such as becoming irrelevant or starved of resources.

I'm a Hoo lurker but figure this may be worth my interjecting.

You are right about ND's fierce independence, but here's how I see ND going to the B1G fairly soon:

The B1G and SEC may decide to do their own CFP playoff and ignore the rest of college football for it. Each conference plays a 4 or 8-team playoff, and then the two conference winners play. If I were advising the B1G and SEC, I'd tell them to do that. That way they control the field and ensure each gets X slots every year. As the B1G and SEC grow, the rest of college football becomes a minor omission.

ND values competing for football national championships more than it does its independence, so it would join.

The B1G can use this coming change to push ND to join now, and ND can use joining now to get the best possible deal. If ND waits until the B1G and SEC announce it's playoff deal, ND certainly would prefer the B1G. The B1G certainly would take ND but ND would not have as much leverage to demand special treatment because the B1G would know ND must and will join the B1G.

If ND joined "now" (i.e., within the next few months), then it could demand a lot of accommodation, such as (1) immediate full revenue share, (2) its choice of permanent football partners (e.g., USC, Stanford, Michigan), (3) its preferred placement in any divisions, and (4) possibly financing to assist with any financial loss from an ACC exit.

If I'm ND, I see the B1G-SEC playoff coming and negotiate a B1G deal now while I have max leverage to get those accommodations. Plus, I need the money.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Just a matter of time. Probably 5 years. Duke may be on the outside looking in.

I think maybe I'm actually using a patented "reverse jinx." I'll be extremely disappointed when the ACC ceases to exist in it's current form. I still miss 8 team round robin play. But I feel like this round of changes may be far more significant.

Ergo, like some folks in other threads have been doing, I'd rather assume the ACC as I have known and loved it my entire life is over. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but in my mind I'm moving on to wondering what Duke can do to stay relevant in a post-ACC universe.

[DevilInTheDetails]

How exciting would it be if these Super Conference teams pick off each other during the season and end up at the top of their respective leagues at 7-5 or 6-6. Would the NC playoff be relevant to view?

[dukelifer]

How exciting would it be if these Super Conference teams pick off each other during the season and end up at the top of their respective leagues at 7-5 or 6-6. Would the NC playoff be relevant to view?

Hard to know. We are in a new era of college sports. I wholly expect attending classes to be optional in the coming years.

[LasVegas]

How exciting would it be if these Super Conference teams pick off each other during the season and end up at the top of their respective leagues at 7-5 or 6-6. Would the NC playoff be relevant to view?

Not likely at all. There will always be a few teams a cut above.

[uh_no]

How exciting would it be if these Super Conference teams pick off each other during the season and end up at the top of their respective leagues at 7-5 or 6-6. Would the NC playoff be relevant to view?

7-5 against top teams every week is a whole lot more interesting than 8 easy wins and a couple of actually important games.


regardless, even if all teams were evenly matched, you'd expect 20% of teams to have exactly 7 wins 12% exactly 8, and just over 5% 9.

so even in a perfectly balanced league, you still all have a coinflip chance of a 9 win team. and it's not balanced.

[Matches]

7-5 against top teams every week is a whole lot more interesting than 8 easy wins and a couple of actually important games.

.

Agreed. Yes, expectations would need to be recalibrated, but ultimately a quality product on the field will win out.

[Acymetric]

7-5 against top teams every week is a whole lot more interesting than 8 easy wins and a couple of actually important games.


regardless, even if all teams were evenly matched, you'd expect 20% of teams to have exactly 7 wins 12% exactly 8, and just over 5% 9.

so even in a perfectly balanced league, you still all have a coinflip chance of a 9 win team. and it's not balanced.

Wouldn't a coinflip be 50%, not 5%? I'm sure the 7-5 teams/fanbases will find ways to cope, but the teams going 3-9 are going to be a tougher sell. I don't think the NFL and College Football are analogous enough to assume that because it works for the Jags it will work for Illinois.

[uh_no]

Wouldn't a coinflip be 50%, not 5%? I'm sure the 7-5 teams/fanbases will find ways to cope, but the teams going 3-9 are going to be a tougher sell. I don't think the NFL and College Football are analogous enough to assume that because it works for the Jags it will work for Illinois.

with 16+ teams in a league, the probability of at least one of them hitting a 5% chance is...56%

[Acymetric]

with 16+ teams in a league, the probability of at least one of them hitting a 5% chance is...56%

Aha, I misread it, thought you were talking about the odds for a specific team to get to 9 when you called it a coinflip, not the odds for any team to make it to 9. My mistake!

[uh_no]

Aha, I misread it, thought you were talking about the odds for a specific team to get to 9 when you called it a coinflip, not the odds for any team to make it to 9. My mistake!

no worries. i could have been can clearer. sending from my phone in sweden with some wine 🙂

[Tappan Zee Devil]

no worries. i could have been can clearer. sending from my phone in sweden with some wine 🙂

I have been waiting for an opportunity to use this

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