Front Page Mess Up

[Daddylawman]

In the brief commentary on Marvin Bagley there are mutiple references to Luka Doncic getting drafted first in 2018. The problem being he was drafted third and Deandre Ayton was drafted first. Another reason I rarely read the front page.

[flyingdutchdevil]

In the brief commentary on Marvin Bagley there are mutiple references to Luka Doncic getting drafted first in 2018. The problem being he was drafted third and Deandre Ayton was drafted first. Another reason I rarely read the front page.

They may also want to fix the 'Cade Phillips' reference at the bottom of the article. 1) it's Cade Cunningham, and 2) who is Cade Phillips?

[-jk]

Thanks. I let Julian know.

-jk

[JNort]

Also there wasn’t really any controversy about Bagley going 1st. It surprised most draft experts that Bagley was taken before Luka. Consensus was Ayton and Doncic number 1 and 2.

[brevity]

2) who is Cade Phillips?

Short for Arcade Phillips, he’s the 8-bit version of former Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips.

[Truth&Justise]

Also there wasn’t really any controversy about Bagley going 1st. It surprised most draft experts that Bagley was taken before Luka. Consensus was Ayton and Doncic number 1 and 2.

Ayton was the consensus number 1.

But Luka was not a consensus number 2. There were those who questioned how Luka's game would translate to the U.S.--just as many as those who thought he should go #1. It was within reason to have Bagley ahead of him at the time.

I took a quick look for 2018 Mock Drafts, here's what one from two days before the draft had to say:

Beyond Deandre Ayton, who will likely land at No. 1, there seems to be an uncommon degree of uncertainty surrounding the lottery picks this year. One thing is for sure, though: The innuendo and the intrigue will only ramp up as we close in on the big night.

Plenty of mock drafts at the time had Bagley going #2 overall.

We all know how things turned out. But at the time it was far from clear whether Bagley or Doncic (or Jarren Jackson Jr. or Mo Bamba) was the best long-term prospect behind Ayton.

[dm9e24]

Would replace Zion Williamson with Grant Hill as one of top 5 recruits of all time. We don't win out first NC without him.

[JasonEvans]

Also worth noting that the front page article implies that Bagley struggled from the start with the Kings. That isn't exactly the case. As a rookie in Sacto, Marvin was arguably better than he was with Detroit (more PPG, RPG, and BPG). He made the All-Rookie team and appeared to be headed to the stardom that has been predicted since he was in high school.

But, whether from injuries or some mismanagement in Sacramento, he has not progressed since then. NBA teams that fail to develop talent tend to stay at the bottom of the standings. That's probably why the Kings have not made the playoffs since Mike Bibby was their best player (2006).

Hard to believe it, but Bagley just turned 23 a couple months ago. He still has tons of time to turn into a NBA star. For perspective, Bagley is about 6 months younger than Brady Manek.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Also worth noting that the front page article implies that Bagley struggled from the start with the Kings. That isn't exactly the case. As a rookie in Sacto, Marvin was arguably better than he was with Detroit (more PPG, RPG, and BPG). He made the All-Rookie team and appeared to be headed to the stardom that has been predicted since he was in high school.

But, whether from injuries or some mismanagement in Sacramento, he has not progressed since then. NBA teams that fail to develop talent tend to stay at the bottom of the standings. That's probably why the Kings have not made the playoffs since Mike Bibby was their best player (2006).

Hard to believe it, but Bagley just turned 23 a couple months ago. He still has tons of time to turn into a NBA star. For perspective, Bagley is about 6 months younger than Brady Manek.

I think a more interesting analogy is Bagley is 11 months younger than our likely starting 2 next year, Jacob Grandison...

[Duke79UNLV77]

The front page also recently incorrectly said that the Elite Eight game against Kansas was Curry's last college game. The front page can be a little soft on truthiness (when Jim Sumner is not providing the content).

[UrinalCake]

I think that Bagley was considered the #1 pick for most of the season. Near the end of the season his stock slipped a bit as Ayton surpassed him, but he is still remembered as the face of college basketball for that season. It was somewhat similar to Okafor who was very much the projected #1 pick until Towns gained momentum in February and March, even though he only played like 20mpg for that loaded Kentucky team. Frank Kaminski was also regarded by some as the best prospect since he had the ability to shoot from the outside.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think that Bagley was considered the #1 pick for most of the season. Near the end of the season his stock slipped a bit as Ayton surpassed him, but he is still remembered as the face of college basketball for that season. It was somewhat similar to Okafor who was very much the projected #1 pick until Towns gained momentum in February and March, even though he only played like 20mpg for that loaded Kentucky team. Frank Kaminski was also regarded by some as the best prospect since he had the ability to shoot from the outside.

Moral of the story: if you are a really good-to-great offensive player who is terrible at defensive, come to Duke and we'll make you a top 3 pick in the draft (Bagley, Okafor, Parker).

[scottdude8]

Also worth noting that the front page article implies that Bagley struggled from the start with the Kings. That isn't exactly the case. As a rookie in Sacto, Marvin was arguably better than he was with Detroit (more PPG, RPG, and BPG). He made the All-Rookie team and appeared to be headed to the stardom that has been predicted since he was in high school.

But, whether from injuries or some mismanagement in Sacramento, he has not progressed since then. NBA teams that fail to develop talent tend to stay at the bottom of the standings. That's probably why the Kings have not made the playoffs since Mike Bibby was their best player (2006).

Hard to believe it, but Bagley just turned 23 a couple months ago. He still has tons of time to turn into a NBA star. For perspective, Bagley is about 6 months younger than Brady Manek.

Yeah, Bagley's continued upside, plus drafting Duren, is part of why I think the Pistons will now spend more cautiously this offseason. If the Pistons can secure Bagley to a 3 year deal at 8-10 million per, that's a contract that could become very favorable for the team if Bagley plays up to his potential, while also giving Bagley the option to cash in more fully in a few years (when he'll still be in his mid-20s, and his prime). If the Pistons were to sign Ayton there'd be questions of how he'd fit alongside Bagley, not to mention how that would affect developing Duren. But with a frontcourt of Bagley, the versatile Isaiah Stewart, Duren, and Kelly Olynyk (still under contract but largely MIA last year due to injury), that's a solid front court rotation with the potential for some upside.

The speculation is now that the Pistons are going to focus on resigning Bagley and finding some affordable veteran shooters/leaders in free agency, rather than making a big splash going for someone like Ayton or even Miles Bridges. Let the young core develop... if that delays getting back to the playoffs by a year or two but leads to a more stable long term foundation, it'll be worth it.

If the Pistons didn't still have Killian Hayes, who's only entering Year 3, I'd say Tyus would be a perfect fit as an experienced leader who shoots it well from deep and could play alongside both Cunningham and Ivey... but I doubt that happens since Troy Weaver hasn't given up on Hayes yet, by all accounts.

[JNort]

Ayton was the consensus number 1.

But Luka was not a consensus number 2. There were those who questioned how Luka's game would translate to the U.S.--just as many as those who thought he should go #1. It was within reason to have Bagley ahead of him at the time.

I took a quick look for 2018 Mock Drafts, here's what one from two days before the draft had to say:



Plenty of mock drafts at the time had Bagley going #2 overall.

We all know how things turned out. But at the time it was far from clear whether Bagley or Doncic (or Jarren Jackson Jr. or Mo Bamba) was the best long-term prospect behind Ayton.

Perhaps so. I just remember thinking Luka was clearly better at #1 as did the shows I followed. Granted I just don’t really believe in drafting “good” bigs. Almost always take wings over pgs and especially over centers.

[jimsumner]

Yeah, Bagley's continued upside, plus drafting Duren, is part of why I think the Pistons will now spend more cautiously this offseason. If the Pistons can secure Bagley to a 3 year deal at 8-10 million per, that's a contract that could become very favorable for the team if Bagley plays up to his potential, while also giving Bagley the option to cash in more fully in a few years (when he'll still be in his mid-20s, and his prime). If the Pistons were to sign Ayton there'd be questions of how he'd fit alongside Bagley, not to mention how that would affect developing Duren. But with a frontcourt of Bagley, the versatile Isaiah Stewart, Duren, and Kelly Olynyk (still under contract but largely MIA last year due to injury), that's a solid front court rotation with the potential for some upside.

The speculation is now that the Pistons are going to focus on resigning Bagley and finding some affordable veteran shooters/leaders in free agency, rather than making a big splash going for someone like Ayton or even Miles Bridges. Let the young core develop... if that delays getting back to the playoffs by a year or two but leads to a more stable long term foundation, it'll be worth it.

If the Pistons didn't still have Killian Hayes, who's only entering Year 3, I'd say Tyus would be a perfect fit as an experienced leader who shoots it well from deep and could play alongside both Cunningham and Ivey... but I doubt that happens since Troy Weaver hasn't given up on Hayes yet, by all accounts.

How do you think Frank Jackson fits in here? It seems like he's found a nice gig as a Vinnie-Johnson lite scorer off the bench.

[scottdude8]

How do you think Frank Jackson fits in here? It seems like he's found a nice gig as a Vinnie-Johnson lite scorer off the bench.

The Pistons reportedly are going to decline Frank's option but exercise a similar option on Hamidou Diallo, so it seems like they've decided that Diallo provides more upside than Jackson as the primary backup shooting guard. That said, I also liked what I saw from Frank on the Pistons, and think that after a season in which he averaged 10.6 ppg in 22 mpg, all while shooting well below his career percentage from deep (indicating their is further upside to those numbers) he should be a solid contributor off the bench for someone next season.

For now, though, that likely won't be the Pistons, especially since Isaiah Livers showed something in the last portion of the season after getting back up to speed from his injury... he shot 42% from deep on 3.4 attempts per game over 19 games as a rookie, and he's under contract for two more years (club option for the last year) and then will be a RFA. I think the Pistons view him as a long term 3-and-D wing off the bench. With Hayes and Diallo the primary guards off the bench, Livers a SF/wing off the bench, Cory Joseph still under contract to provide a veteran presence, and PG Saben Lee still under a very team-friendly contract to provide depth, I don't think there would be real PT for Frank in Detroit. So probably makes sense for see what opportunities exist elsewhere.

[tommy]

To be Frank, Jackson’s shooting has been pretty poor throughout his NBA career. Which is a big reason why he’ll be onto his third team in five seasons. Unfortunately, being this type of journeyman is the fate (if they’re relatively lucky) for many guys who from a basketball standpoint came out too early and get drafted where Frank did.

[jimsumner]

To be Frank, Jackson’s shooting has been pretty poor throughout his NBA career. Which is a big reason why he’ll be onto his third team in five seasons. Unfortunately, being this type of journeyman is the fate (if they’re relatively lucky) for many guys who from a basketball standpoint came out too early and get drafted where Frank did.

It doesn't help that he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. He's just never developed his point-guard skills.

But he can heat up in a hurry. Mini-microwave?

[Kdogg]

It doesn't help that he's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. He's just never developed his point-guard skills.

But he can heat up in a hurry. Mini-microwave?

Air fryer?

[Steven43]

Would replace Zion Williamson with Grant Hill as one of top 5 recruits of all time. We don't win out first NC without him.

You’re likely correct in saying that Duke would not have won that first national championship without Grant Hill. However, Zion Williamson was a better college player than Grant……in the sense that Zion reached a higher, more dominant level in his one Duke season than Grant did in any of his four seasons.

That’s my opinion, for what’s it worth. And I fully admit it’s not worth much. 😉