Duke MBB vs. Illinois Post-Game Thread

[dukeisawesome]

Gerald got compared to A) Kobe and B) Grant during this game. Pretty tough company, tho I have to admit, I DID see a lot of Kobe in his game.

I was actually thinking GH was looking Kobe-esque before they said it. He's very smooth out there and has tons of potential. I would bet he has studied Kobe's game tapes. Obviously he's got a long way to go to reach that level though.

[TheGlobe]

Given the higher level of competition against Illinois, yesterday's was the first game that I took a very close look at the kind of zone we were playing, particularly because they looked totally unable to get any kind of offensive flow going when we were in that defensive set.

Why was the zone so effective yesterday? It may have just been coincidence, but the lineup they had on the floor was much younger when we switched to the 2-3, and that more inexperienced team just couldn't get their sets started. Illinois is a big, veteran team, and it's exactly this kind of team from which we can "steal" a few possessions by going zone against their smaller, younger reserves. It gives our starters some time to rest, can protect them from foul trouble, and gives the coaching staff a new look to play with.

Do I think we should go all Syracuse-style with our defense? No. But as a changeup from the typical Duke ball pressure, and used situationally, it worked beautifully last night.

[dw0827]

Hi,

I have yet to hear Coach K get the credit, that IMO, he deserves for making the rather extreme changes that he has. IMO, there are few people who would substantially reinvent themselves at age 60 after having the extreme success that Coach K has experienced/created.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Just out of curiosity, how has Coach K "substantially reinvented" himself?

[willywoody]

Hi,

IMO, the star of the game was Coach K. I think he completely out-coached Weber by making in-game adjustments that left the Illini looking weaker and weaker as the 1st half progressed.

I have yet to hear Coach K get the credit, that IMO, he deserves for making the rather extreme changes that he has. IMO, there are few people who would substantially reinvent themselves at age 60 after having the extreme success that Coach K has experienced/created.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

agreed. bye bye motion offense. 4 games and i've yet to see the dreaded weave. and hello active zone defense, who'd a thunk it.

[trinity92]

Like it or not, we're going to have to play a lot of zone this year to avoid getting killed on the boards. I think the zone is simply a necessity to mask our shortcomings inside, as Illinois was getting just about every offensive rebound when we weren't in the zone. This isn't a slam on Z, and I'll echo others' appreciation for his solid work last night, but a big, experienced team will just eat us up on the offensive boards unless we zone. I don't really mind it, but it's going to slow the game and bring the number of possessions down, which seems to go against our professed goal of pushing tempo and trying to score a bunch of points.

Along those lines, I haven't heard anyone mention that we didn't pick up full court at all and didn't look to trap much last night. Announcers talked a lot about Illinois going 15 deep, so maybe they weren't the right target for that up-tempo style, but looking at all their strength inside, I would have imagined we'd try to push the tempo and press a lot, if nothing else than to avoid the half-court game and their dominance on the boards.

We must be doing something very right, because in a physical and competitive game against the type of opponent we seem ill-suited to play, I found us up 10, then 15 points without really noticing it. It didn't seem like we were disrupting their game or blowing them out, but the scoreboard told a different story. I liked that.

[Jeffrey]

Just out of curiosity, how has Coach K "substantially reinvented" himself?

Hi,

Still playing the semantics game? I added the word "substantially" just so you wouldn't! Didn't you state it was not worth debating? So, why do you continue?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...83&postcount=5

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[chrishoke]

"Singler does a really nice job of sealing off his defender when he's getting an entry pass and this leads to what look like easy layups. They are easy because he's sealing off his defender so well (which isn't always easy, he's just good at it)."


That's the thing I noticed most about Laetner his freshman year. They bothy make it look so easy and simple.

[bird]

In earlier games an announcer (I forget who) made the point that what we need (as opposed to desire) out of Zoubek is not starter's minutes and statistics, but rather just 10-15 solid minutes a game. K is basketball genius, and he can cover up glaring holes with smoke and mirrors to a large degree, but having a genuine big man available for at least part of the game seems to reduce the pressure on everyone else to a tremendous degree.

Last night Zoubek had 18 solid minutes.

We had indications as to what we have on our hands as to the other players in prior games, and it is generally quite good news, but I think we are starting to get an answer on what Zoubek brings to the table. And it is sufficient to our needs. And that may be the best news of all coming out of last night.

[MChambers]

Like it or not, we're going to have to play a lot of zone this year to avoid getting killed on the boards. I think the zone is simply a necessity to mask our shortcomings inside, as Illinois was getting just about every offensive rebound when we weren't in the zone. This isn't a slam on Z, and I'll echo others' appreciation for his solid work last night, but a big, experienced team will just eat us up on the offensive boards unless we zone.

Most folks think that playing a zone makes it harder to rebound, because the defensive players are not assigned to specific players to box out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_de...a_zone_defense

Given how small we are, I think we would do better from a rebounding point of view in the man to man.

[cajundevil74]

I think Zoubek had his most productive night in a Duke uniform. His first half catch in the lane, and score from 6-7 ft was gorgeous and uncharacteristically fluid. His strength is still subpar, but his effort and potential are there. He reminds me of a young Aaron Gray from Pitt.

[shadowfax336]

with the Aaron Gray comparison for Zoubek...
I've been making it since I first saw him last year.
Gray came into Pitt overweight, and Zoubek came in underweight, but otherwise they're extremely similar. Both have very nice natural post moves, struggled with traveling and stupid fouls as a freshman, and looked very awkward at points/didn't protect rebounds.
Gray took until his junior year to "get it" but when he did he simply exploded. He went from this big awkward kid who made Pitt fans wince when he was out there, to a nt inside guy who rebounded, scored, and made the other team build a defensive gameplan around him.
We'll see if Zoubek is willing to work as hard as Gray did, and if he is able to "get it" in the same way, but he is very very capable of being that type of player.

[CDu]

with the Aaron Gray comparison for Zoubek...
I've been making it since I first saw him last year.
Gray came into Pitt overweight, and Zoubek came in underweight, but otherwise they're extremely similar. Both have very nice natural post moves, struggled with traveling and stupid fouls as a freshman, and looked very awkward at points/didn't protect rebounds.
Gray took until his junior year to "get it" but when he did he simply exploded. He went from this big awkward kid who made Pitt fans wince when he was out there, to a nt inside guy who rebounded, scored, and made the other team build a defensive gameplan around him.
We'll see if Zoubek is willing to work as hard as Gray did, and if he is able to "get it" in the same way, but he is very very capable of being that type of player.

One unfortunate difference is that Zoubek has been limited by injury. Hopefully he is able to get it next year, but his offseason foot injury set him back in a way that may have cost him a full year of development (if you consider that much of a player's individual development occurs in the offseason).

Other than that, I think the Gray comparison is a pertinent one.

[juise]

I've read most of this thread (admittedly, I skimmed some of the longer posts) and I haven't seen any mention of Scheyer's pass on Gerald's breakaway dunk. I was very impressed by the pass because (1) the angle was tricky and (2) we looked away first. Some might view the look-away as showboating, but I think he probably distracted the defended for just a fraction of a second and got Gerald the space he needed to make the play. As many others have said, Scheyer does the little things very well.

Most folks think that playing a zone makes it harder to rebound, because the defensive players are not assigned to specific players to box out.

I thought that I remembered that conventional wisdom from my high school basketball playing days. I think that it is generally more difficult to keep your opponents off the boards in a zone.

[Classof06]

I'm with Trinity92, we're going to have to go zone on some of bigger teams; there's just no way around it. I was very satisfied with our performance last night. Demarcus and Gerald were senstational, and once we get Singler acclimated to where he can consistently produce, this team is going to get even tougher. Paulus was a steadying force once again and is playing great. As far as the sophomores go, I think each has taken their game to another level and you can truly see the difference. I think Lance can still do even more than he's doing now and I look forward to seeing him be more aggressive as the year goes on.

It's funny because you hear all these preseason interviews about how all the players really took last year's failures to heart and a lot of people thought it was just lip service. This is a game I think Duke would have lost last year. Simply put, this team is playing with a chip on its shoulder every night and it is truly a joy to watch. When things got a little chippy with Illinois last night, there was no backing down whatsoever and I can't say it would've been the same last year. The way Demarcus slashed through the lane and flushed it with two in the first half or the way Gerald went right at that kid, took the contact and slammed it home were things we never would have seen last year; just coming with a nasty vengeance. I know they'll drop some games throughout the course of the season, but I already love watching this team play. After a one year hiatus, Duke is really starting to get that swagger back.

[dw0827]

Hi,

Still playing the semantics game? I added the word "substantially" just so you wouldn't! Didn't you state it was not worth debating? So, why do you continue?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...83&postcount=5

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Because I'm curious about what you think Coach K has done differently lately that is a radical (substantial?) departure from what he's done over the past 20 25 years as a coach.

[SMO]

with the Aaron Gray comparison for Zoubek...
I've been making it since I first saw him last year.
Gray came into Pitt overweight, and Zoubek came in underweight, but otherwise they're extremely similar. Both have very nice natural post moves, struggled with traveling and stupid fouls as a freshman, and looked very awkward at points/didn't protect rebounds.
Gray took until his junior year to "get it" but when he did he simply exploded. He went from this big awkward kid who made Pitt fans wince when he was out there, to a nt inside guy who rebounded, scored, and made the other team build a defensive gameplan around him.
We'll see if Zoubek is willing to work as hard as Gray did, and if he is able to "get it" in the same way, but he is very very capable of being that type of player.

Chris Collins said the same thing and I've been thinking it since last season. By the time he's a senior most teams will have to gameplan to deal with him. He will be a force.

[Jeffrey]

Because I'm curious about what you think Coach K has done differently lately that is a radical (substantial?) departure from what he's done over the past 20 25 years as a coach.

Hi,

If you're going to insist on playing the semantics game, then you may want to learn that the words "radical" and "substantial" are not interchangeable.

I did not write "radical":

radical (adj)

Synonyms: fundamental, basic, essential, deep-seated, profound, deep-rooted

I wrote "substantial":

substantial (adj)

Synonyms: considerable, large, extensive, significant, important, generous, ample, sizable, plentiful, big, abundant

I'm not going to continue to play the semantics game with you. With all due respect, I have better things to do.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[Troublemaker]

The mixing in of zone is a substantial change because previously, he was a hardcore m2m guy, but other than that, everything else is pretty much the same.

[dw0827]

The mixing in of zone is a substantial change because previously, he was a hardcore m2m guy, but other than that, everything else is pretty much the same.

We've played zone before albeit not much. It remains an open question as to how much we will use it this year. If we use it alot, then, yea, I'd agree that it represents a (blank) departure from his past practice. (Fill in the blank with your own adjective). But if we use it as a change of pace once in a while, then its nothing new. We've played zone before.

[dw0827]

Hi,

If you're going to insist on playing the semantics game, then you may want to learn that the words "radical" and "substantial" are not interchangeable.

I did not write "radical":

radical (adj)

Synonyms: fundamental, basic, essential, deep-seated, profound, deep-rooted

I wrote "substantial":

substantial (adj)

Synonyms: considerable, large, extensive, significant, important, generous, ample, sizable, plentiful, big, abundant

I'm not going to continue to play the semantics game with you. With all due respect, I have better things to do.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

That made me dizzy.

You wrote: "He deserves for making the rather extreme changes that he has. IMO, there are few people who would substantially reinvent themselves at age 60 after having the extreme success that Coach K has experienced/created."

I don't think its semantics to ask you what you are referring to when you refer to extreme changes. Personally, I don't see any extreme changes and I wonder what you are talking about. I wonder if I've missed something.

So what considerable, large, extensive, significant, important, generous, ample, sizable, plentiful, big, abundant, substantial or extreme changes has Coach K made?