Steph Curry and his place among the all-time greats

[SlimSlowSlider]

I remember reading some posts about whether Steph was a top 10 NBA player of all time. I think Jason said no f'in way (and made a very reasoned argument about the other players he thought were ahead of Steph.) I have no idea what thread that discussion was in (maybe NBA playoffs?), so I will just start a new thread with this article.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/t...-not-a-debate/

This author has Steph in the top 5 of all time. He doesn't actually weigh Steph against other past greats (and that is where it would get difficult); it is mostly a paean to Steph's greatness.

[Wahoo2000]

I remember reading some posts about whether Steph was a top 10 NBA player of all time. I think Jason said no f'in way (and made a very reasoned argument about the other players he thought were ahead of Steph.) I have no idea what thread that discussion was in (maybe NBA playoffs?), so I will just start a new thread with this article.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/t...-not-a-debate/

This author has Steph in the top 5 of all time. He doesn't actually weigh Steph against other past greats (and that is where it would get difficult); it is mostly a paean to Steph's greatness.

Fun convo/debate for a slow time of year!

This guy's primary point of why Curry is top 5 all time is based on..... an Andre Igoudala quote? Where Igoudala annoints Curry as the best PG of all time. What is the basis for this when comparing to other greats? What if NO point belongs in the top 5 all time?

Curry might very well be top 5 most influential player of all time. He came along at a time where the analytics taking hold made teams truly understand the value of the 3pt shot... and there's a CLEARLY a legitimate argument to be made for him being the greatest 3pt shooter of all time (in fact, if I had to guess I'd imagine somewhere in the 80-99% of fans would say he IS). But if we're going to talk greatest players, let's look a individual domination of the league over a long period of time, as well as ability on BOTH ENDS of the court. To each his own, but I *cannot* in good conscious put a guy in the top 5 all time when he is a MAJOR defensive liability (when compared to other all-time greats, not just typical NBA players, where I still believe he falls in the "average to below average" defender, steals-touting-apologists notwithstanding). I'd also wager that no-one else in my PERSONAL top 5, or even top 10, all-time has been to 6 finals and secured finals MVP only once.

Steph is a great, GREAT player. He changed the game. He can be both of those things and not a top 10 player all time.

**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10, here they are in no particular order - assume some mild bias towards players post 1980 as that's most of my personal viewing experience:
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Close but... no. (again, in no particular order):
Olajuwon
West
Barkley
Stockton
Malone
Curry
Isaiah Thomas
Ewing
Dirk
Iverson

[Steven43]

Fun convo/debate for a slow time of year!

This guy's primary point of why Curry is top 5 all time is based on.... an Andre Igoudala quote? Where Igoudala annoints Curry as the best PG of all time. What is the basis for this when comparing to other greats? What if NO point belongs in the top 5 all time?

Curry might very well be top 5 most influential player of all time. He came along at a time where the analytics taking hold made teams truly understand the value of the 3pt shot... and there's a CLEARLY a legitimate argument to be made for him being the greatest 3pt shooter of all time (in fact, if I had to guess I'd imagine somewhere in the 80-99% of fans would say he IS). But if we're going to talk greatest players, let's look a individual domination of the league over a long period of time, as well as ability on BOTH ENDS of the court. To each his own, but I *cannot* in good conscious put a guy in the top 5 all time when he is a MAJOR defensive liability (when compared to other all-time greats, not just typical NBA players, where I still believe he falls in the "average to below average" defender, steals-touting-apologists notwithstanding). I'd also wager that no-one else in my PERSONAL top 5, or even top 10, all-time has been to 6 finals and secured finals MVP only once.

Steph is a great, GREAT player. He changed the game. He can be both of those things and not a top 10 player all time.

**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10, here they are in no particular order - assume some mild bias towards players post 1980 as that's most of my personal viewing experience:
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Close but... no. (again, in no particular order):
Olajuwon
West
Barkley
Stockton
Malone
Curry
Isaiah Thomas
Ewing
Dirk
Iverson

I like your Top 10, though I would definitely put Hakeem Olajuwon above Shaq. And I’m lukewarm on Bryant being quite that high. But it’s probably semantics because they’re close enough regardless.

[Wander]

**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10, here they are in no particular order - assume some mild bias towards players post 1980 as that's most of my personal viewing experience:
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Close but... no. (again, in no particular order):
Olajuwon
West
Barkley
Stockton
Malone
Curry
Isaiah Thomas
Ewing
Dirk
Iverson

This is actually pretty close to what I'd have... but I would swap Kobe and Curry. I'd have Curry just barely in the top 10 and Kobe just barely out. It's close.

I could go through the stats and comparing title and MVPs between Curry and other players on this list, but instead I will just say this: if you are essentially universally agreed upon to be by far the best shooter in a sport where the entire point is to make shots, so much so that you changed how the sport is played, there has to be room for you somewhere near the top almost by definition.

[PackMan97]

I would consider him the best of the modern era, since say the days of Larry Bird.

Why?

It's simple, he's not some freak athlete or physical specimen that comes along and dominates the game because of their genetics. I'm looking at you MJ, Shaq, etc.

What Curry has done has changed the game of basketball more in the past 40 years than anyone else in the league, and that's why he is the best of the modern era and one of the best of all time. When you are so good that you force all the other teams to change the way they play and coach the game is to be truly great. Everyone could try and go get an MJ, a Lebron, a Shaq, but those guys aren't the best because they are transcendent ball players, they were the best because they were genetically perfect for the game. You couldn't go out and get another player like them.

disclaimer: I'll make any argument possible to get someone other than MJ named as the best player...because I live the 9f life.

[moonpie23]

It's simple, he's not some freak athlete or physical specimen that comes along and dominates the game because of their genetics. .

well, hang on....isn't he? the physical ability to shoot like he does is kind of freakish...eye/mind/hand/arm/feet/balance/movement ....those are all physical abilities...just "amazingly un-athletic"

i mean...seriously, when he shoots if from 2 steps into the half court, hell, when he shoots it from the logo, you're not surprised that it goes in because he has repeatedly shown that he can make that shot...

i'd call it freakish....

[uh_no]

well, hang on...isn't he? the physical ability to shoot like he does is kind of freakish...eye/mind/hand/arm/feet/balance/movement ...those are all physical abilities...just "amazingly un-athletic"

i mean...seriously, when he shoots if from 2 steps into the half court, hell, when he shoots it from the logo, you're not surprised that it goes in because he has repeatedly shown that he can make that shot...

i'd call it freakish...

I'd call it practice, and an unwillingness to cede to dogma which says practicing those shots had no place in the game. Hell, I remember when I was a kid and all the coaches would rue that kids only wanted to shoot 3s, not learn the game.

Well, here's what happens when you learn a game by shooting 3's.

[weezie]

...**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10...

I think Wahoo nails it. Curry would have been welcomed by any of those vets whether top ten or top eleven.

[rsvman]

Fun convo/debate for a slow time of year!

This guy's primary point of why Curry is top 5 all time is based on.... an Andre Igoudala quote? Where Igoudala annoints Curry as the best PG of all time. What is the basis for this when comparing to other greats? What if NO point belongs in the top 5 all time?

Curry might very well be top 5 most influential player of all time. He came along at a time where the analytics taking hold made teams truly understand the value of the 3pt shot... and there's a CLEARLY a legitimate argument to be made for him being the greatest 3pt shooter of all time (in fact, if I had to guess I'd imagine somewhere in the 80-99% of fans would say he IS). But if we're going to talk greatest players, let's look a individual domination of the league over a long period of time, as well as ability on BOTH ENDS of the court. To each his own, but I *cannot* in good conscious put a guy in the top 5 all time when he is a MAJOR defensive liability (when compared to other all-time greats, not just typical NBA players, where I still believe he falls in the "average to below average" defender, steals-touting-apologists notwithstanding). I'd also wager that no-one else in my PERSONAL top 5, or even top 10, all-time has been to 6 finals and secured finals MVP only once.

Steph is a great, GREAT player. He changed the game. He can be both of those things and not a top 10 player all time.

**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10, here they are in no particular order - assume some mild bias towards players post 1980 as that's most of my personal viewing experience:
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Close but... no. (again, in no particular order):
Olajuwon
West
Barkley
Stockton
Malone
Curry
Isaiah Thomas
Ewing
Dirk
Iverson

Any list of greatest players that is 20 names long and doesn't include Oscar Robertson is fundamentally flawed.

[Steven43]

Any list of greatest players that is 20 names long and doesn't include Oscar Robertson is fundamentally flawed.

Yeah, he’s got to be above Iverson, right?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Any list of greatest players that is 20 names long and doesn't include Oscar Robertson is fundamentally flawed.

Agreed. And perhaps it is just my total distaste for him as a human being that blurs my vision, but Isaiah should not be on this list. He probably belongs in the next batch, though I think there are some other old-timers who should also be there as well.

[Wahoo2000]

Agreed. And perhaps it is just my total distaste for him as a human being that blurs my vision, but Isaiah should not be on this list. He probably belongs in the next batch, though I think there are some other old-timers who should also be there as well.

Double agreed. I sporked RSV for his comment you quoted and in my message to him, I said I'd likely slide Zeke out for Robertson.

[Wahoo2000]

Any list of greatest players that is 20 names long and doesn't include Oscar Robertson is fundamentally flawed.

Yikes! Defending myself, I was going completely off the top of my head. For the record, I *would* almost definitely put The Big O in that 11-20 range (although his #1 claim to fame/greatness has lost a chunk of the luster with Westbrook accomplishing the feat multiple times... and you see Westbrook on practically ZERO people's "all time greats list").

Steven43 makes a good point about Julius Erving as well. Honestly when you get outside the top 15ish, the next 10-15 guys are prob nearly interchangeable. The farther you get from the absolute peak performers, the muddier the waters get.

[cato]

Fun convo/debate for a slow time of year!

This guy's primary point of why Curry is top 5 all time is based on.... an Andre Igoudala quote? Where Igoudala annoints Curry as the best PG of all time. What is the basis for this when comparing to other greats? What if NO point belongs in the top 5 all time?

Curry might very well be top 5 most influential player of all time. He came along at a time where the analytics taking hold made teams truly understand the value of the 3pt shot... and there's a CLEARLY a legitimate argument to be made for him being the greatest 3pt shooter of all time (in fact, if I had to guess I'd imagine somewhere in the 80-99% of fans would say he IS). But if we're going to talk greatest players, let's look a individual domination of the league over a long period of time, as well as ability on BOTH ENDS of the court. To each his own, but I *cannot* in good conscious put a guy in the top 5 all time when he is a MAJOR defensive liability (when compared to other all-time greats, not just typical NBA players, where I still believe he falls in the "average to below average" defender, steals-touting-apologists notwithstanding). I'd also wager that no-one else in my PERSONAL top 5, or even top 10, all-time has been to 6 finals and secured finals MVP only once.

Steph is a great, GREAT player. He changed the game. He can be both of those things and not a top 10 player all time.

**For those 1% reading this post curious of my personal top 10, here they are in no particular order - assume some mild bias towards players post 1980 as that's most of my personal viewing experience:
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Close but... no. (again, in no particular order):
Olajuwon
West
Barkley
Stockton
Malone
Curry
Isaiah Thomas
Ewing
Dirk
Iverson

Steph Curry is better than Larry Bird.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Steph Curry is better than Larry Bird.

*Grabs a bag of popcorn*

[Steven43]

Steph Curry is better than Larry Bird.

At virtually nothing.

But Curry is an all-timer (Top 20) nonetheless.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Worthy of discussion as being in the top 10

Magic
Bird
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Kareem
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan
Olajuwon
West
Curry
Dr J

I think most of you are overrating Iverson.

SoCal

[bundabergdevil]

At virtually

At shooting, he is. I understand that is an important part of basketball.

[Steven43]

At shooting, he is. I understand that is an important part of basketball.

You’re right that shooting is important, and Bird could shoot equally well from anywhere on the court — inside and out — regardless of who was guarding him. And he had a post game that Curry could only dream of, and that was when the refs allowed MUCH rougher play. Curry wouldn’t have shot as consistently well as he does today had he played in Bird’s era.

The Legend was known to be the toughest SOB in the league and he got smacked, shoved, scratched, and hacked throughout every game. You could get away with murder back then. Curry would’ve gotten beaten to a pulp.

If you’re going to compare their shooting/scoring ability you have to do it under like circumstances. It’s like comparing the physicality (or lack thereof) of what quarterbacks have to deal with in today’s NFL versus that of Roger Staubach, Joe Montana,Troy Aikman and Brett Favre. Those guys would get absolutely hammered throughout every game while today Tom Brady plays four quarters with a clean uniform while hardly getting touched.

Curry is on the fringe of the outer portion of the all-time great level, but he’s a clear notch or two below that of Larry Bird.

[bundabergdevil]

You’re right that shooting is important, and Bird could shoot equally well from anywhere on the court….

This is an objectively false statement. Bird’s true shooting percentage isn’t even top 100 all time; his 3 point % is 170-who cares all time; his FT shooting % is sub .9.

I said Curry is the better shooter. He is. By a BIG margin. Of course I wouldn’t argue Curry has the better post game. Your post is one false claim and then a lot if “what about” this arguments that are rebutting an argument I didn’t make.

Also, the halcyon toughness era of the NBA is hogwash. Steph revolutionized the game with his shooting ability and those lumbering, beer drinking cavemen of the 70s and 80s NBA would have viewed Steph as some kind of wizard when he pulled up from five feet behind the arc and sank at a higher clip than Bird ever could with his toe on the line.